# My girlfriend isn't enjoying D&D. Is this fix a wretched thing to do? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877 "2010-08-20T15:25:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/41 "2010-08-20T20:33:40Z")
> [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > > [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > > > **Khaki Campbell** please do not enter a thread solely to post a nasty comment; we call that threadshitting. Don’t do it again. > > > > **Ellen Cherry > > IMHO Moderator** > > Meh. Being appalled at immaturity in a D&D game is like being shocked at burps and vomit and wooohooos at a frat party. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/42 "2010-08-20T20:36:03Z")
If you mock people for being geeks in a posting on an Internet message board, you automatically lose at life. True fact. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/43 "2010-08-20T20:54:28Z")
[small hi-jack] Ok since the OP hasn’t come back in to comment on my post and I don’t think it merits a new thread then I have a question. Is it ok for two people to play as one character? [/small hi-jack] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/44 "2010-08-20T20:56:32Z")
You have a girlfriend and you’re still playing D&D? I have a feeling she might not be all that upset about having her character killed off. It doesn’t sound like she really cares at all, and she’s not wrong about how dry and boring and tedious the game is to newbies. I do think plotting behind her back is unnecessary. Better to just tell her your “very experienced” (which I suspect is code for “girlfriend-less”) buddies are feeling cramped by having to lug around an apathetic newbie in the game and that she doesn’t have to play if she doesn’t want to. Be upfront and tell her to play all-in or don’t play at all. Basically, be an adult. It’s just a game. I actually had a very similar experience to this years ago. I had some friends who liked to game. I sometimes gamed with them, but I was a very casual, very occasional player – nothing close to a geek about it. I barely understood the rules, was told on many occasions that I “couldn’t search for shit,” was really only interested in fighting and sex and was clueless about plot devices (if a tavern keeper hinted that he had something I might be interested in seeing," I’d just think “that’s weird,” and wander off looking for a whore. The DM’s had to beat me over the head to get me to bite on a hook). Anyway, I started dating this girl and brought her in on a game. It was basically the same thing. She was bored, not really interested in learning the arcana of the point systems and dice rolls, and really didn’t grasp any concept of getting into a character. After a couple of sessions, it was obvious that she wasn’t really that into it, so we asked her if she wanted us to kill her and that we would off her in any way she wanted. We came up with some kind of spectacular, bloody death for her, which left her surrounded by piles of dead orcs, and then kept going without her. Then they told me I was dead weight and they were going to kill me too. They had their characters turn on me and accuse me of stealing something, and we had a fight and they killed me. It was in good fun and good spirits, and it didn’t feel like a betrayal, just a kind of mature acknowledgement that we were a drag on the game, so let’s give you a big, hilarious, blaze of glory death and no hard feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/45 "2010-08-20T20:59:20Z")
It sounds like your campaign isn’t the best campaign for her…and possibly, D&D isn’t the best game for her. Most of the campaigns I’ve been in have been pretty heavy on the RP part, unless most of the players are teens. Ask her if she thinks that this is the best game for her to socialize in. If I’m gaming, I like some socialization, but my primary purpose in gaming is to game, not to catch up with friends. And if she isn’t interested in the game enough to read the frigging manuals, then she’s going to find that the game’s a slog. She doesn’t have to memorize the manuals…but reading the handbooks are an essential part of the game, and if she keeps trying to get out of it then she’s not going to be a very good party member. If the DM and other players are all intensely focused on the game, while she’s trying to socialize, then she’s going to be bored. She needs to get into the game, or really just quit it. Not everyone likes D&D, and of those who DO like it, not everyone likes the same flavors of D&D. I don’t like Forgotten Realms settings (kender should all just die, and I’m willing to do my part to ensure their extermination) or Oriental Adventures settings. But put me in a quasi-medieval setting, and I’m a very happy gamer. Maybe she’d enjoy another setting. Another idea, if she likes combat, and is willing to read or crochet during games, then maybe she should have a PC, but instead could be a DM’s assistant and run the Minions of the Opposition when the party faces a horde or something. Also, [pirateninja](http://www.goblinscomic.com/tempts-fate-8/). ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/46 "2010-08-20T21:01:33Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > This. alternate D&D nights with MUNCHKIN nights, or something like that. I agree. I LOVE Munchkin. It’s all the things I like about D&D without any of the things that make it boring for me. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/47 "2010-08-20T21:05:19Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > [small hi-jack] > > Ok since the OP hasn’t come back in to comment on my post and I don’t think it merits a new thread then I have a question. > > Is it ok for two people to play as one character? > > [/small hi-jack] I’ve never seen it done. I’ve seen the DM assign some players to help out with the combat (never pitting the player’s own character against the monster he’s using, though), and I’ve seen one player handle one or more characters. I’ve never seen two people play one character, unless it was one experienced player helping a newbie, though. > [@](#): > > your “very experienced” (which I suspect is code for “girlfriend-less”) buddies Errrr, no. While some gamers don’t have SOs, most adults do. Sometimes the SOs are interested in the games, too, sometimes not. I didn’t get into D&D until AFTER I’d been married for a few years…and no, my husband didn’t get me into it, I got HIM into it. I know that the common meme of a FRPGer is of a teenage male with few social skills, and sometimes that is the truth, but it’s really just another stereotype. There are more people who don’t fit the stereotype than do. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/48 "2010-08-20T21:11:37Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > There are more people who don’t fit the stereotype than do. Really? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/49 "2010-08-20T21:12:33Z")
I can’t make up my mind whether I’d like to have a) a girlfriend or b) > [@](#): > > She’s bored and frustrated, and part of her frustration is that she doesn’t really understand the rules. Well I think the problem is that she doesn’t understand the rules enough. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/50 "2010-08-20T21:14:52Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > I think letting her character _survive_, for reasons outside the scope of the game, wasn’t a nice thing to do, and counterproductive. How seriously can anyone take the game if there are no consequences to character actions? Reflecting on this comment of mine, especially in light of other remarks about the proportion of games which are combat-oriented, I feel the need to clarify and expand. I _don’t_ think it’s a good idea to be ruthless with novice players. Everybody needs time to get their bearings before facing serious consequences. But I do also believe that dangers in the game environment should be _real_ for the characters. The best RPGs are the ones in which players come to identify with their characters the most (_while_ they’re playing; let’s not get carried away) and events like the appearance of a powerful enemy send an actual frisson through the players, because the danger is _real_ for the characters. The GM won’t keep anybody alive in contravention of the rules, and everybody knows that. In turn, this means that winning battles and overcoming other kinds of physical danger (say, getting a group safely up a cliff above a raging river) feel like _real_ accomplishments. The fighting itself is adrenalized, and when it’s over the survivors are _relieved_. They know the outcome wasn’t a foregone conclusion. This is just way more satisfying than comic-book games where the heroes can’t be killed and must succeed in the end. So how does this work with novice players? It seems to me there have to be adventures which are challenging, but not particularly dangerous–not primarily combat-oriented. Mysteries to solve, problems to work out of, that kind of thing. For example, one story arc in my old campaign involved a PC who was unjustly implicated in a crime and arrested. The rest of the group had to figure out what had really happened, and how to prove this to the authorities. There were a couple places where fighting occurred (or could have), but nobody on either side was killed. On the other hand, non-combat character abilities were important, as when an NPC escaped over city rooftops with a piece of evidence. The PCs had to rely on incomplete knowledge of the city, some quick thinking in deploying themselves, magical levitation and detection, and non-magical riding and climbing proficiencies. There was a moment’s scuffle when the guy was cornered, but it was four or five on one, and they wanted to take him alive, so it wasn’t anything like a dungeon-crawl butchery. Now, this particular episode for us didn’t involve any novice players. But it easily could have; none of the PCs were ever in much direct physical danger. Even the arrested character _could_ have been freed to play another day, without solving the mystery, though it would have taken most of the group’s combined wealth for a bribe. There were always multiple ways the original problem, the unjust arrest, could have been “solved”–though losing their money and getting involved with a corrupt official would, in turn, have led to new problems and new adventures. FWIW, this campaign was running mainly under AD&D 2nd-edition rules, but I think the choice of this or that game system isn’t really the important thing. RPGs aren’t _like_ board or card games; the mechanics are not the game. The game is what you do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/51 "2010-08-20T21:16:03Z")
In my experience, really. However, I don’t game with teens, as a rule. I screen the group and DM before I even think of joining. My OWN kid is over 30…I don’t want to deal with teens again. So probably I should say, gamers over the age of about 22 are likely to have a girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse, just as nongamers of that age are. I’ve met a few people over that age who are obsessed with games, especially FRPGs, but then there are people who are obsessed with other things as well. Oh, and thirding Munchkin. It’s a lot of fun, and the rules are much, much shorter. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/52 "2010-08-20T21:16:46Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > > There are more people who don’t fit the stereotype than do. > > Really? In my experience, really. However, I don’t game with teens, as a rule. I screen the group and DM before I even think of joining. My OWN kid is over 30…I don’t want to deal with teens again. So probably I should say, gamers over the age of about 22 are likely to have a girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse, just as nongamers of that age are. I’ve met a few people over that age who are obsessed with games, especially FRPGs, but then there are people who are obsessed with other things as well. Oh, and thirding Munchkin. It’s a lot of fun, and the rules are much, much shorter. ---
**Author:** ![Mithril](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mithril/32/3517_2.png) [@Mithril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithril)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/53 "2010-08-20T21:45:06Z")
I have somebody like your girlfriend in our monthly game. You know what? She \*ruins \*the game for the rest of us. She takes play time, she takes player rewards and she never does anything or participates in any way. People have tried getting her to participate, and she just won’t. But she comes every time, and demands time and attention from the other players. For the people saying to change the game to something else…keep in mind that all the other people in the group want to play the game. Changing it for one person would be ridiculous. OP, I would recommend just being straight with her. Tell her that it’s obvious she isn’t enjoying herself. Suggest that your friends get together periodically for some other activity. She might be happy with a board game night, or seeing a movie, or something else. But don’t subject your friends to her anymore. They are being nice because she is your girlfriend. They may stop being nice when they get frustrated enough. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/54 "2010-08-20T21:47:46Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I don’t like Forgotten Realms settings (kender should all just die, and I’m willing to do my part to ensure their extermination) or Oriental Adventures settings. But put me in a quasi-medieval setting, and I’m a very happy gamer. Now hang on just a minute! There are _no kender_ in the Forgotten Realms setting. I cannot stress this enough. Kender are from Dragonlance, and they ruin that setting (that and their take on gnomes). Forgotten Realms has halflings, but they lack the traits that make kender so goddamned annoying. (Disclaimer: I stopped following the Forgotten Realms at the end of 3E. If they added kender to it in 4E, that is an atrocity that dwarfs the Spellplague.) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/55 "2010-08-20T21:57:24Z")
WHOOOPS! You’re right. I had a DM who allowed players to play kender in a FR setting, and I forgot that this was not canon. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/56 "2010-08-20T22:56:10Z")
FWIW, I understood the rules a lot better after playing _Baldur’s Gate_. Has she? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/57 "2010-08-20T22:58:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > FWIW, I understood the rules a lot better after playing _Baldur’s Gate_. Has she? If she dies in every encounter in a real D&D session I can’t see her lasting long in Baldur’s Gate. Edit: I’m also betting she isn’t a gamer and wouldn’t be terribly interested in playing a computer game. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/58 "2010-08-20T23:00:57Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > Is it ok for two people to play as one character? I don’t think it would be especially helpful, since she’s still going to be bored when the shared character is doing boring stuff under **Foxtrot** ’s control. I don’t see any advantage over just encouraging her to play a character that better suits her interests, something like a Warforged Barbarian tasked to protect the other characters. She’d still have some useful skills, but she wouldn’t be expected to be the skill-monkey when she has no desire to do so. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/59 "2010-08-21T00:10:22Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > FWIW, I understood the rules a lot better after playing _Baldur’s Gate_. Has she? > > If she dies in every encounter in a real D&D session I can’t see her lasting long in Baldur’s Gate. > > Edit: I’m also betting she isn’t a gamer and wouldn’t be terribly interested in playing a computer game. she may be MORE interested in playing a computer game. There is no roleplaying on a computer game, other than a MMORPG. It is you vs the AI stuff, all kill and loot and turn in. I tell you, I stopped trying to find a live group the instant I found RPGs for my amiga … I never had to deal with people cheating, failing to show up for game night, assorted annoying bullshit. The game tracked my supplied, I could log in and play, save the game when I wanted to stop playing, and I didnt have to make snacks for people coming over to game. Hell, my main issue was living 35 miles away from the nearest game store, and nobody wanting to come here to play and it suckks always having to go 35 miles to play. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/60 "2010-08-21T00:21:26Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > If she dies in every encounter in a real D&D session I can’t see her lasting long in Baldur’s Gate. > > > > Edit: I’m also betting she isn’t a gamer and wouldn’t be terribly interested in playing a computer game. > > she may be MORE interested in playing a computer game. How is that relevant, though? The only reason she’s even playing D&D is so she can hang out with her SO’s friends. The goal of this thread isn’t to find fun things for her to do on her own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877.md?page=4)