# My girlfriend isn't enjoying D&D. Is this fix a wretched thing to do? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877 "2010-08-20T15:25:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/81 "2010-08-23T20:00:46Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > > [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > > > She’s acting immature ? No surprise. After all, they play childish, make-believe games. > > ^^^This. > > @ OP - realize this girl must really like you to put up with your 10 year old activities. If you care about her even in the slightest way, definitely have your friend kill her off and let her move on. She’ll be better off in the end. I have issued a warning to Khaki Campbell for this comment, so you should know better to come in and threadshit with more of the same. This is out of line in the IMHO Forum. Do not do it again. **Ellen Cherry IMHO Moderator** ---
**Author:** ![congodwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@congodwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/congodwarf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/82 "2010-08-23T20:10:13Z")
My boyfriend’s suggestion is that you guys play Hero Quest with her. I can’t stand role playing of any kind. I will never ever play D&D. Ever. After about 5 minutes reading the rule book for Magic, I threw it away and told him to either teach me to play without it or I’m not playing. If my boyfriend were to tell me he was going to start playing D&D again with all his old friends from high school and college, I’d welcome them with open arms and I’d even cook for them. But, my socialization with them would involve them playing D&D and me playing WoW or Diablo. You don’t have to play to socialize. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/83 "2010-08-23T20:16:56Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It’s odd how many stereotypes about D&D players, that I previously thought were kind of unfair are being confirmed in this thread. That someone loves or cares for a D&D player enough to try and participate, and is then criticized for insufficient attentiveness to what _most_ humans would consider a mind numbingly boring game, and an extraordinarily tedious way to pass the time, is interesting. I’ve seen exactly one person/group “confirm the stereotype”: the OP. Everyone else is telling him it’s a dick move, even other D&D players. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/84 "2010-08-23T20:44:47Z")
I have an idea for a scenario for her. The entire group suddenly turns against her and she has to fight each of you to the death one at a time. If she survives she wins the game and decides what activity you guys do next! No? OK, then I would recommend she tries Dungeons & Dragons On-line too. You don’t have to roll any dice, there is a lot more combat, and it focuses a lot on group work. The majority of the quest would be extremely challenging to do solo. Plus, like someone said, you don’t have to make snacks for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/85 "2010-08-23T22:57:27Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It’s odd how many stereotypes about D&D players, that I previously thought were kind of unfair are being confirmed in this thread. That someone loves or cares for a D&D player enough to try and participate, and is then criticized for insufficient attentiveness to what _most_ humans would consider a mind numbingly boring game, and an extraordinarily tedious way to pass the time, is interesting. The thought counts, sure, but she’s also rather tone deaf about relationships if she doesn’t realise that putting herself in this situation is sucking the fun out of it for everyone else. It’s like if the OP invited himself to join her when she went to a movie she wanted to see, then sat next to her for two hours sighing impatiently. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/86 "2010-08-24T00:35:57Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > F > > By the way, we’re playing version 3.5. Version 4 never happened. NEVER HAPPENED. I have been treating 4th Edition as a different game, with a similar name and a few similarities. If you just look at it as a different game, and not D&D, it’s not so bad. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/87 "2010-08-24T02:00:13Z")
Woah, everyone, hold the phone. Has this thread actually gone 2 pages with nobody asking the MOST important question?! … Is she hot? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/88 "2010-08-24T02:11:09Z")
Sure is a lot of sneak-bragging going on in IMHO these days. Obviously the OP here (a D&D player) just wants to let us all know that he has a girlfriend. 😃 But you still live with your mom, right? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/89 "2010-08-24T03:12:18Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > > [@Reply](#): > > > > Really? > > I play D&D and I’m a girl in a D&D group that’s majority female. While I have fun and enjoy gaming, I also have a lot of interest in shoes, makeup and fashion (just to show interests that are usually the polar opposite of the typical gamer). You don’t happen to be an [adult actress](http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/i-hit-it-with-my-axe/1533-Episode-One-Meet-the-Party), do you? (NSFW alert. Yes, that links to a series about alt porn stars and adult entertainers playing D&D.) ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/90 "2010-08-24T14:37:43Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@astro](#): > > > > It’s odd how many stereotypes about D&D players, that I previously thought were kind of unfair are being confirmed in this thread. That someone loves or cares for a D&D player enough to try and participate, and is then criticized for insufficient attentiveness to what _most_ humans would consider a mind numbingly boring game, and an extraordinarily tedious way to pass the time, is interesting. > > I’ve seen exactly one person/group “confirm the stereotype”: the OP. Everyone else is telling him it’s a dick move, even other D&D players. Allow me to clarify before everyone thinks I’m the Worst Boyfriend Ever (too late, maybe). She’s not just participating because she wants to hang out with me. She wants to hang out with our friends. I also think she has a genuine interest in playing D&D, but she doesn’t have the patience to go over some of the drier parts of the rules (and I don’t blame her, I haven’t read a lot of the magic rules because they are pretty boring). My original inclination in the OP was to ask if the DM should kill her off because based on talks between her and I, she wasn’t enjoying herself but felt like she’d be disappointing everyone if she bowed out. Based on talks between the DM and I, the rest of the group, as much as they like her, didn’t feel like she was contributing much and were a bit tired of her falling asleep during sessions. Suggesting the DM kill off her character seemed like a way to avoid an uncomfortable conversation. A couple of days ago, the DM found an awesome prestige class for her (Dread Commando) which has a lot of latent, “always on” abilities and would save her from adding up a lot of bonuses. I showed her the class and she looked it over for a whole 5 seconds before changing the subject. It’s not like we’re not trying to work with her. The cheap shots in this thread about D&D being an immature, 10-year-old’s hobby are completely uncalled for. I don’t see why it’s any different than Fantasy Football… both are playing make-believe. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/91 "2010-08-24T14:44:42Z")
Personally, I think she’s a jerk for ruining it for everyone else. It doesn’t matter if it’s D&D or anything. Any game you play, if you invite a girlfriend or a boyfriend, they should at least try to understand the game and enjoy themselves. And I see no indication the OP is neglecting his girlfriend - is this the only time they see each other? The gf should bring a damn book and stop mucking up the game for everyone else… Doesn’t matter though. She’ll make sure the game ends, if only by making it miserable for everyone else. And yes, I am an adult female who plays D&D. Fourteen years now. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/92 "2010-08-24T14:55:36Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And I see no indication the OP is neglecting his girlfriend - is this the only time they see each other? No. My girlfriend and I see each other 4-5 days a week and always spend the weekend together. D&D comprises a few hours one night a week. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/93 "2010-08-24T15:29:36Z")
I asked Husband, a damn good GM, and one who’s been known to do a _lot_ of tailoring his campaigns for the interests of the players. He says she should bow out; if the game is going awesomely other than her character, and she just refuses to try, then it’s not fair to the other players to make them play a different game in the hopes that there’s an off chance that she’ll maybe like it. She can be there, and socialize, but should not be playing. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/94 "2010-08-24T15:52:51Z")
I am still confused. WHY do you think this will be an awkward conversation? Everyone wants the same thing (for her to quit the group), it seems that if you alleviate her fear that she is letting down the group by bowing out, she will do so happily. It all seems very straightforward to me. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/95 "2010-08-24T16:44:14Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > A couple of days ago, the DM found an awesome prestige class for her (Dread Commando) which has a lot of latent, “always on” abilities and would save her from adding up a lot of bonuses. I showed her the class and she looked it over for a whole 5 seconds before changing the subject. It’s not like we’re not trying to work with her. You’re not understanding what she is interested in playing. Just here, you seem to have thought it was the (awful) requirement to add up bonuses in 3.5 that was her problem. Looks like that wasn’t the case. You say you’ve talked to her – what did she say? What does she like about playing the game? What does she dislike about it? _Specifically_. A vague list of “she thinks reading the rules is boring, and roleplaying is boring, and she likes combat” is useless to helping her enjoy the game more. As you have found out. Why does she like playing her character? What does her character do that she finds enjoyable? What does she wish she could change about her character? What was the most fun she’s had in the campaign? Did she enjoy any of the plotlines? I have to say, I’ve been where your girlfriend is at. In fact, I’m probably at that same place, now. We’re playing _In Nomine_ and it’s a horrible, horrible system and it’s an utterly uninteresting plotline, and the campaign has arranged out so that my and several other characters are basically marginalized. I’ve been soldiering on, but am BORED out of my freaking HEAD. The GM thought he had a solution to get me more involved… and created a plotline that made things _worse_. Now the plotline basically has my character trapped in Groundhog Day, so everything I accomplish is immediately undone. It’s excruciating – but I’m not putting up with it, and have clearly communicated what the problems are. They’re being addressed (or I’ll find something else to do with my friends). Your girlfriend has not clearly communicated what the problems are. And you (and the DM) clearly have not addressed them. Go back, and talk to her _again_. Get specific. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/96 "2010-08-24T18:00:40Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > > > A couple of days ago, the DM found an awesome prestige class for her (Dread Commando) which has a lot of latent, “always on” abilities and would save her from adding up a lot of bonuses. I showed her the class and she looked it over for a whole 5 seconds before changing the subject. It’s not like we’re not trying to work with her. > > You’re not understanding what she is interested in playing. Just here, you seem to have thought it was the (awful) requirement to add up bonuses in 3.5 that was her problem. Looks like that wasn’t the case. > > You say you’ve talked to her – what did she say? What does she like about playing the game? What does she dislike about it? _Specifically_. > > A vague list of “she thinks reading the rules is boring, and roleplaying is boring, and she likes combat” is useless to helping her enjoy the game more. As you have found out. > > Why does she like playing her character? What does her character do that she finds enjoyable? What does she wish she could change about her character? What was the most fun she’s had in the campaign? Did she enjoy any of the plotlines? > > I have to say, I’ve been where your girlfriend is at. In fact, I’m probably at that same place, now. We’re playing _In Nomine_ and it’s a horrible, horrible system and it’s an utterly uninteresting plotline, and the campaign has arranged out so that my and several other characters are basically marginalized. I’ve been soldiering on, but am BORED out of my freaking HEAD. > > The GM thought he had a solution to get me more involved… and created a plotline that made things _worse_. Now the plotline basically has my character trapped in Groundhog Day, so everything I accomplish is immediately undone. It’s excruciating – but I’m not putting up with it, and have clearly communicated what the problems are. They’re being addressed (or I’ll find something else to do with my friends). > > Your girlfriend has not clearly communicated what the problems are. And you (and the DM) clearly have not addressed them. Go back, and talk to her _again_. Get specific. We’ve talked about the kind of character she wants. She said she is interested in a bruiser who is sort of the “go-to girl” for strategy. She also expressed interest in leadership. The DM found Dread Commando and seemed to be closest to what we understood that she was interested in. It’s not that she hates adding bonuses; she’s just never quite sure how to do it. As I’ve said, we’ve been playing in this campaign since March and we still have to show her how to compute her attack rolls, damage, saving throws, etc. A class with fewer bonuses to be added up would make for smoother gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/97 "2010-08-24T18:16:55Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > We’ve talked about the kind of character she wants. She said she is interested in a bruiser who is sort of the “go-to girl” for strategy. She also expressed interest in leadership. The DM found Dread Commando and seemed to be closest to what we understood that she was interested in. How about reworking her character as a Warblade or Crusader? The Crusader isn’t quite as intuitive but if you print out some Maneuver cards she should get the hang of it. It means she can hand out heals (Devoted Spirit) and buffs (White Raven Tactics) as often as she likes, and beat the hell out of people at the same time. If her current character is sneaky in heavy armour, you could also give her a dip in a divine class and take levels in Ruby Knight Vindicator. Even if she doesn’t use the divine spellcasting for now, she’s still an uber-tank. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/98 "2010-08-24T18:20:51Z")
Guys, what’s the point? It’s obvious she hates the game. Finding a different prestige class isn’t going to miraculously show her how much of a fan of D&D she is. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/99 "2010-08-24T18:21:10Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > It’s not that she hates adding bonuses; she’s just never quite sure how to do it. As I’ve said, we’ve been playing in this campaign since March and we still have to show her how to compute her attack rolls, damage, saving throws, etc. A class with fewer bonuses to be added up would make for smoother gameplay. Why should she have to do any computation? Just let her decide what her character does, and then let someone else do the figuring. In my experience, some players like doing the mathy stuff, others do not. So let the mathy players (or GM) do the math. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/100 "2010-08-24T18:51:46Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I screen the group and DM before I even think of joining. Heh. I always screen players for any game I am running – not just for maturity and interest level, but also to make sure we’re on the same page ruleswise. Occasionally this turns someone off. In particular, in _Champions_ (a sort of complex super-hero roleplaying game) one or two people have _really_ hated any attempt to go over how their characters’ powers will work in the game system. From their objections, I realized that they basically planned to try to rules-lawyer me _during combat_ when I’d be under time pressure to keep things exciting, and specifically objected to even generalized discussions out side of the game (i.e., when time pressure was not working against the GM). So I screened those guys _out_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877.md?page=6)