# My girlfriend isn't enjoying D&D. Is this fix a wretched thing to do? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877 "2010-08-20T15:25:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/101 "2010-08-24T19:06:54Z")
Does modern D&D still use the concept of THACO? Tell her what her THACO score is, and how to adjust, then in combat, tell her roll to hit AC whatever the mob has. Example, a 1st level fighter needs 20 to hit AC 0. If they have +1 strength bonus, +1 specialization bonus, and a +1 sword, their adjusted THACO is 17. To hit an orc with AC 6, she need to roll 11 or better. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/102 "2010-08-24T19:16:56Z")
Not for several editions. Which raises the question of whether or not the Character Creator tool might help out…and of course it wouldn’t as you’re playing 3.5. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/103 "2010-08-24T19:20:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Does modern D&D still use the concept of THACO? Tell her what her THACO score is, and how to adjust, then in combat, tell her roll to hit AC whatever the mob has. Example, a 1st level fighter needs 20 to hit AC 0. If they have +1 strength bonus, +1 specialization bonus, and a +1 sword, their adjusted THACO is 17. To hit an orc with AC 6, she need to roll 11 or better. You are an old man. 😛 THAC0 hasn’t been in the game for a long, long time. It’s replaced by a much, much easier system where all the scales are positive = better. Add the die roll to any bonuses. If it’s equal or greater to the creature’s AC, it’s a hit. Now, if your total bonuses are +3, you need to roll a 17 to hit something with AC 20. So much simpler to grok, and the probabilities work out exactly the same. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/104 "2010-08-24T19:24:42Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > \ > The cheap shots in this thread about D&D being an immature, 10-year-old’s hobby are completely uncalled for. I don’t see why it’s any different than Fantasy Football… both are playing make-believe. For what it’s worth, I agree with you. You have a hobby - everyone has hobbies. I have a really lame one - posting on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/105 "2010-08-24T19:28:51Z")
What **Bosstone** said, basically. The probabilities are the same because it’s really the same mechanic expressed differently. You could play 1st or 2nd-ed. and rearrange the armor class tables to work the same way. For that matter, THAC0 itself was just a restatement of the “attack matrix.” ---
**Author:** ![Page\_Fault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@Page\_Fault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Page_Fault)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/106 "2010-08-24T20:16:58Z")
The fact that the OP’s girlfriend is female is irrelevant here. A gamer is a gamer, I’ve found… you either like it or you don’t. Since late high school, most of my groups have had at least one female in them, so it’s not a particularly hard concept to grasp. I have seen the unmotivated player before, too. I’ve seen people fall asleep in mid-combat(playing Werewolf, no less, which isn’t exactly a complex system), and I’ve seen players who aren’t particularly interested in the Investigate the Mysterious Happenings Via Infiltrating the Royal Ball adventures and just want to hit things. Maybe she needs to grow into the sort of game you’re doing, because I find that newer players rarely dig the whole roleplaying aspect until they’ve tried out the gamist portions. The other posters have made some good suggestions, but another one would be to find out if it’s the game itself that bores her, or just your style of play. Try HeroQuest, if you have it. If you don’t mind 4th Edition as a game, try a quick and dirty ‘simplified’ game like Keep on the Shadowfell. I personally prefer 3.X, but 4e does seem to grab the gamist types more. Failing all that, if you must keep to your same game, try a dungeon crawl adventure that’s lite on the RP, heavy on the bashing of heads. It’s not a bad thing to let go and try that now and then, and if she loves it then you’ll at least have a starting point for knowing what the problem is. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/107 "2010-08-24T20:30:56Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > > > It took you that long to kick them out?! And your husband was okay with all that behavior? > > He married her, they are now divorced, and my husband and I are still together. In part because I pick up on hints like “its a guy thing” and “its important to you.” But not because he picks up on subtle clues, I’ve had to learn to say right out loud “this is my damn house and your friends are coming over, playing a game you told me I wasn’t welcome at, and keeping me up late at night. Are you really that fucking clueless?” I think it was very nice of you to let your mate reroll after such an epic fail in the “husband” role. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/108 "2010-08-24T23:09:44Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > We’ve talked about the kind of character she wants. She said she is interested in a bruiser who is sort of the “go-to girl” for strategy. She also expressed interest in leadership. The DM found Dread Commando and seemed to be closest to what we understood that she was interested in. > > It’s not that she hates adding bonuses; she’s just never quite sure how to do it. As I’ve said, we’ve been playing in this campaign since March and we still have to show her how to compute her attack rolls, damage, saving throws, etc. A class with fewer bonuses to be added up would make for smoother gameplay. You and your DM were not attempting to fix _her_ problem, you were attempting to fix _your_ problem – you addressed _your_ annoyance with her calculating bonuses.\* When you talk about what kind of character she wants, _be more specific_. You just repeated another general description there. _Ask what she likes doing with her current character._ Specifics. _Ask what abilities she enjoys using._ When she expresses interest in “leadership”, ask “What do you think of when you say ‘leadership’.” You’ve got a massive disconnect going on in your discussions with her; it’s only going to lead to more frustration for all. Yes, you’ve talked to her about all this – obviously, that didn’t fix things, or you wouldn’t have posted this thread. And please point out to her that _she_ is responsible for making sure she has fun. She has to articulate what she wants, _clearly_, and not just rely on being the meek damsel-in-distress waiting for someone to save her. - Seriously, if calculating bonuses is at all a problem, 3.5 is utterly the wrong game – for all of you. Even if you give her a prestige class that doesn’t have much math-work, your cleric and wizard are falling down on the job if they’re not buffing the heck out of everyone as often as possible. There’s workarounds to make the stupid recalculations less painful, but if it’s 3.5, they’ll always be there. ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/109 "2010-08-25T12:23:51Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > > [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > > > She’s acting immature ? No surprise. After all, they play childish, make-believe games. > > ^^^This. > > @ OP - realize this girl must really like you to put up with your 10 year old activities. If you care about her even in the slightest way, definitely have your friend kill her off and let her move on. She’ll be better off in the end. Really? What are your hobbies? No, let me guess.. Hunting and Nascar. WAY more manly. In all seriousness, though, why such random, misguided hostility? Just because a person has an interest in something doesn’t make them childish or even make the activity childish. Way off the mark with that one. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/110 "2010-08-25T19:53:28Z")
I’m going to come in and say that my wife often has the same problem when she’s in my gaming group (currently two married couples, a single guy, and a girl whose boyfriend doesn’t play)–for her, it’s all about the character she wants to play and how effective they are at the role she’s chosen for them. Sometimes it can take an hour or two of talking about the game in the abstract before she makes a character, but it means the difference between her enjoying the campaign and gritting her teeth through it because she wants to play with us but doesn’t want to admit she’s not having fun right now (precluding a reroll). Sometimes it takes a lot of dithering. Right now, we’re playing a Heavy Gear game, which is essentially an anime-styled mecha wargame with an rpg system bolted on. As it turns out, she’s perfectly happiest in a role where she’s driving the mecha-game equivalent of the hybrid offspring of a tow truck and the semi from Knight Rider. (THAT was fun to mock up in the vehicle creation rules, as DM, lemme tell yah) Of course, the issue is that she’s gotta be invested enough in the game to want to sit down and discuss what she wants out of her character–but if she’s not, but insists on playing anyway, that’s gonna be tough. I’d go from the standpoint of not even bringing up rulebooks, talk to her about what she wants, and then have the DM write up a custom prestige class for her or something. ---
**Author:** ![Melanthe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Melanthe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melanthe)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/111 "2015-11-02T03:02:06Z")
Maybe it just isn’t her kind of game… There’s a lot of pressure in most D&D games I’ve been in and not everyone enjoys being pressured. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/112 "2015-11-02T03:55:05Z")
Someone missed their WIS save against zombies… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/113 "2015-11-02T06:43:31Z")
TURN UNDEAD! Now I want **Agent Foxtrot** to come back and let us know how it all worked out, and how the campaign is going. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/114 "2015-11-02T08:13:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Now I want **Agent Foxtrot** to come back and let us know how it all worked out, and how the campaign is going. 10 bucks says she didn’t stick with it. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/115 "2015-11-02T12:26:53Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > 10 bucks says she didn’t stick with it. The game? Or him? I wager both are done. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/116 "2015-11-02T14:11:27Z")
On the off chance the OP elects to come back and contribute to this thread, I’ll move it to the Game Room. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/117 "2015-11-03T23:48:23Z")
I don’t see that letting her die naturally was necessary as bad as everyone made it out to be. Sure, don’t go out of your way to do it–that’s a jerk move. But if she should die, I don’t see any reason with letting it happen and having her roll a new character–if she wants to. It’s a part of the D&D experience, and it would have given her an out if she wanted to take it. I do agree that everyone’s advice about actually talking to her was definitely better. But merely letting her die was not as bad an idea as everyone made it out to be. And I second the desire to find out what happened. How did the OP choose to deal with it, and what was the result? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/118 "2015-11-05T05:50:12Z")
The OP’s last board activity was 10/27/15, so it seems he’s still around. I sent him a PM with a link to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/119 "2015-12-01T04:53:24Z")
Hi, all. I just saw **Rigamarole** ’s PM. The problem sort of resolved itself. We didn’t play for a summer because of conflicting schedules, and when we met again, she decided not to participate. We ended up breaking up in 2012 after a 3-year relationship. The campaign continued on for another year until we fought a black dragon and my character died. My party had plans to resurrect him, but after that fight, we stopped playing again due to increasingly conflicting schedules. Everyone would love to continue the awesome campaign, but the DM lost his notes for it. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877/120 "2015-12-01T15:17:10Z")
Well, all’s well that ends well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-girlfriend-isnt-enjoying-d-d-is-this-fix-a-wretched-thing-to-do/550877.md?page=7)