I would expect that anyone who actually knew me well would be willing to entertain suspicions that I had been framed, and that anyone who just knew me professionally or from around town would spit on my name and pretend that I didn’t exist any more.
If I WERE innocent, I further expect that even after that fact were legally ascertained and proclaimed to all and sundry, I would STILL have to move to a new community, and possibly undergo a name change to expunge the social stain associated with that false allegation.
Would that suck? Yes! Would I blame people? Not really.
It’s why hacking someone’s computer with child porn is one of the worst things you can do to someone. Simply the accusation of such destroys people’s lives, because its so important that we (socially) HAVE to act as if it were true. It’s just the way modern mores work in this country.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we should go around lynching anybody, but conversely, I really don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a community to simply pretend nothing happened and everything’s totally normal while the judicial system grinds through the process.
Ours ask the same things (I’m a PD, so I’m pretty familiar with it), but anyone who is incarcerated with a bond they can’t pay is considered indigent. Look at it this way–if his family chose not to pay for his attorney, should he have to go without one? He no longer has access to his funds. He’s in jail and can’t get out.
Also, in our jurisdiction, the qualifications for a PD appear to be higher than in yours. We take anyone up to 187% of the federal poverty guidelines. $18K for a family of two will qualify you here.
If the defendent has money, but no access to the money what happens?
Does he have to find a lawyer that will work “on credit” based on the promise that he will pay later, or will a PD be provided and the defendent later be billed by the government?
If the defendent is found guilty, can the family (i.e wife) be forced to liquidate family (as opposed to individual) assets to pay for the defense?
No, what you are saying is that you expect people to be judgmental and stupid. Yes, it’s true, but it is 100% the people’s fault. Mores don’t pop up without a society for them to pop into. That’s kinda the point.
Don’t get me wrong: I don’t give a crap about the presumption of innocence on a message board of people who don’t know who the guy is or anything. And as long as the OP would reevaluate their stance if the uncle were found innocent, I don’t see anything wrong with what the OP says, either.
But citing that people’s emotions are sometimes irrational and do not line up with reality is not a defense. It is not a good thing that people who were accused of committing a crime but found innocent are still treated as if they were guilty.
It is worth pointing out that the guy was a former IT worker so he must have been pretty computer savvy. I really doubt any hacking was going on.
I do know that he was charged with 4 or 5 counts of possession of child porn, which the news called pictures of “females under the age of 18.” I guess if it was one count per file found that wouldn’t be a whole lot of evidence, especially if they were legal girls who appeared to be younger than they are. But how would you prove that either way? I know just one is enough, but the way some people bulk download porn and the subjective nature of determining age could be an issue there.
FWIW, I’ve heard though the family that the vast majority of the porn was of legal age adult women.
The best case scenario for uncle is that “something” happened (not necessarily illegal) that caused the 5 year old to make some vaguely incriminating statements, then mom freaks out (I’m not saying she is wrong to do so), calls the police and they find a small number of questionable pictures on his hard drive. Possible? I think so. Most likely scenario? I don’t know.
I’m willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, because that is how we do things in this country and is at the foundation of our civil liberties. That is part of what makes me sick - what if the whole thing was a misunderstanding? The man has a black mark for the rest of his life no matter what.
Of course the greatest concern is for the 5 year old. I hope nothing really happened to her. I can’t imagine what it would be like if something had happened to me when I were a kid. Or to my daughter if I had one.
This whole thing has made me want to stay as far away from any kind of illegal action/legal proceeding as I possibly can forever. It is nothing but grief and heartache.
There tends to be a lot of hysteria surrounding child porn - and as mentioned the evidence really might be anything from a few pictures of 16 year olds to who knows what.
If, as said here, it is a few questionable (as in borderline, not clearly and unambiguously child porn) pictures amongst a large collection it really would put a different spin on things.
And who here really believe that even if he is found innocent his life will be anything other than essentially destroyed now?
Even if he is technically guilty the cops etc still need to follow due process.
So if they seized his computer without the proper authorisation the files might not be admissible as evidence. Or if the 5 y/old wasn’t interviewed in the right way etc.
That sort of thing happens all the time and it’s what good lawyers look for, so worth paying even if you know you’re morally guilty.
I don’t know about other states, but in Wisconsin, a judge will expedite a divorce, if the defendent is found guilty and is being sent to prison. It happened to a guy I know. She filed for divorce when he was arrested, and the divorce was finalized in the courtroom as soon as he was found guilty.
What I expect is for people to make judgments about people more or less the same way all the time, whether criminal charges are involved or not.
It’s absurd to expect people to say, “oh, he’s been charged with a crime, therefore I’ll turn off my brain until the jury reaches a verdict” in a situation where if no charges had been filed, or if the acts in question weren’t crimes, they’d feel quite comfortable in reaching a judgment about the person.
Does anybody know more specifically whether the child porn involved persons who could have appeared 18 or over, versus persons who are obviously nowhere near 18?
Probably most of us are horrified at the perverse crime of molesting (or causing to be photographed) small children when we hear “child porn”. If what is meant, though, is apparently plausibly legal models who are in fact not quite legal, that to me doesn’t suggest anything perverse. It just suggests an issue with minors not considered legally capable of informed consent to work in adult entertainment, which is still important, but I think not something to ruin the customer’s public standing over.
However, it is OFTEN a good thing that social groups pronounce judgement on people and act in a way to preserve their own safety, or that of their children, in the absence of a universal, foolproof, or instantaneous method of determining guilt or innocence.
Is it always useful? No. Does it occasionally unfairly label someone? Yep.
However, we humans tend to go for judgements like that. Much better to think a bush is a lion and be wrong rather than the opposite to use a classic example. I don’t think it does any good to rail against that when you have to realize that in absence of immutable proof one way or the other, people have to judge based on what they know, and that information will ALWAYS be limited in some way.
It’s funny that when using “judgement” against someone when dealing with something less terrible than child molestation, it’s usually considered admirable. “Using good judgement” isn’t a condemnation the last time I checked, and it was in evidence on this very board in the thread where the young man was worried about his co-worker insisting on giving him rides home against what many people described as “his better judgement.”
Odd how then being “judgemental” gets such a bad reputation.
A big problem is that children sometimes lie. And sometimes children are made to lie by their parents. Sometimes it can take decades to clear your name.
I remember a story - the link’s now dead - of a hobo having been accused of kidnapping and molesting three children. He would have been convicted and sentenced to death if it hadn’t been found out that the children had fabricated the whole thing.
She was in disbelief. Her whole family was. They are a pretty tight-knit family. I know GF used to go visit uncle and family often throughout her childhood, but she hasn’t mentioned anything unusual happening.