# My God, just when I think I can no longer be shocked... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2000, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266 "2000-11-01T17:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/1 "2000-11-01T17:10:15Z")
So I open the mail from Monday, and check the headline article in the LA Daily Journal (attorney newspaper-type thing). There is a picture of a good-looking man with his daughter, at a pool or the beach. Nice, right? Then I read the caption- this monster spent DECADES raping and sexually abusing his daughters, granddaughters, nieces and their friends. In a letter from prison, he stated that “God says I can do whatever I want with my children, including eating them.” This waste of inhuman flesh was also credited with such gems as “People who talk end up 6 feet under”, “Betrayers are executed”, and “People who tell have accidents.” Dude was a second-generation pedophile who was indiscriminate about choosing victims. The family members just happened to be convenient. Thank God this fuckwad died in prison of leukemia in 1997, while serving 13 years. And he was lucky to get that- the statute of limitations had run out on almost all the cases (CA laws have since changed to allow for more prosecutions). Women are STILL coming forward to say yes, I was a victim too. Only after he’s long dead do they have the courage to speak out. This makes me sick. THERE IS NO PLACE FOR THESE FUCKERS ON MY PLANET. As Dennis Miller once said, any time you feel the need to fuck or kill a kid, then you need to just lean into the strike zone and take one for the team. Damn right. The article went on to say that nationally, almost 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 7 boys are sexually abused BY A FAMILY MEMBER by the time they’re 18. (Does anyone have a real cite on that stat? I am looking.) Now that I look at the photo again, the little girl in the bathing suit looks terrified, almost ready to cry. I sure hope this guy had an eventful prison term. ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/2 "2000-11-01T17:54:00Z")
I don’t usually say this about other human beings, but I really hope the guy found out what rape is all about while in prison. I would not normally wish rape on a person, but I believe this guy’s actions remove him from the normal scope of humanity. Unfortunately I believe we (as a society) are moving closer to a time when we will not be shocked about this kind of stuff. I have heard the same kind of statistics as you, but I cannot provide any cites because I usually hear about it on the news or Montel Williams show or something like that (I can’t put my hands on it). I wonder how his kids are doing now? Did he raise generations of people that are totally screwed up or did he grace us with another group of pedophiles? ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/3 "2000-11-01T18:00:11Z")
…that pedophiles and rapists are genereally not the most popular people in prison. It seems even murderers find that repulsive. I’m sure this guy had a few “accidents” in his term in prison. I hope he did, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/4 "2000-11-01T18:10:34Z")
Actually, sexual abuse of anybody, let alone a child, is horrific, but the moron is right about the bible. It does allow you to eat your children. > [@](#): > > Deuteronomy 28:53 - "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee I’m with thinksnow here, I’m sure this guy got whats comming to him in jail, daily. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/5 "2000-11-01T18:42:30Z")
I had the opportunity to retaliate against the perpetrator of a **BAD THING**. I would do it again in a heartbeat and I lose no sleep over it. In fact I feel good that I was able to provide closure to the victim’s family. Don’t ask- while I doubt there will be repercussions, I’m not taking any chances. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/6 "2000-11-01T18:46:15Z")
I hope this waste of skin became intimate with the phrase “Who’s your daddy” on a daily basis during his stay in prison. ---
**Author:** ![SouthernStyle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@SouthernStyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SouthernStyle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/7 "2000-11-01T19:37:10Z")
This is a semi-hijack. Guys like this show us what’s wrong with the justice system in this country. (Obviously “justice” is the wrong adjective here…) It seems that we have 4 types of punishment in this country. [ul] [li]The worst (there’s another wonderful term) crimes are punishable by death. (Why is it that shooting a person, in and of itself doesn’t warrant the “death penalty”, but shooting someone and then cutting his/her body into fish bait does???)[/li][li]The 2nd level is imprisonment. You did something bad so the system will make you take a “time out” for part of your life. During this time you can read, watch TV, learn a trade, study law, or a host of other activities. You just have to do them (and live) at one of the government’s pre-selected locations. Oh, and we’ll provide food and clothing just like your parents used to.[/li][li]Fines. Yeah, right. Embezzle 5 billion dollars and the government will fine you 1 billion. What’s this? You’re broke and can’t pay the fine or make restitution? Well that’s OK. You can keep your mansion and yacht. After all, you’ve gotten used to the lifestyle and it would be cruel and unusual punishment to make you sell your home.[/li][li]Community Service. Picking up trash on the side of the road may be humiliating, but at least the citizens of this country get a benefit while you pay for your crime. Actually, if we expand the definition, community service has promise. I think that the community would be well served by the body of a pedophile being “donated” to science – the fact that he’s still using it is immaterial. It would be a wonderful object lesson to others if someone guilty of DUI manslaughter was sentenced to crossing a busy street, on foot, every day for the rest of his/her life – which would undoubtedly get shorter. A wonderful form of community service for drug dealers would be to have them work at the solid waste treatment plant. They help shovel drugs onto our streets – they’re well qualified to shovel shit.[/li][/ul] We need to get more creative in how we punish the truly evil in this country/world. The current system just doesn’t have enough options. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/8 "2000-11-01T19:50:07Z")
The ex-husband of a friend of my husband’s is currently doing a LOT of time in Pennsylvania for molesting two (or three, I’m not sure on this point) kids he was taking care of. When this charmer was arrested, I got a frantic phone call from my husband asking me what this guy should do. (I mean, what the hell, **my** ex is in prison, I should know what to do) I told him to call a lawyer. Over time, the entire story came out. Steve (that’s the suspect) and his wife Shirley were taking care of these kids, and had been for quite a while. Steve had been abusing them for years. He went into counseling with a minister of the church and told her everything. Said minister took the liberty of going to the mother of these kids and telling her what the babysitter had been doing. After a humiliating (but short) trial, Steve got a long sentence. (Again, I’m not sure, because it happened a considerable distance from where we live.) Steve is in protective custody and will be until his sentence is finished. He will also be a registered sex offender for the rest of his life. His wife was forced to leave town and go back to her maiden name. And the minister was re-assigned to non-counseling duties, and was lucky she wasn’t sued or de-frocked. It saddens me to think what is happening to the kids. It makes me sadder to think about the adults who feel they have the right to violate those who trust them. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/9 "2000-11-01T19:52:17Z")
Regarding inmate treatment of convicted pedophiles: the fact is that most guys in prison have wives and kids on the outside. Without doubt, some percentage of those women hook up with men to replace the financial and emotional support that was lost with their spouses’ incarcerations. And some percentage of those new men are pedophiles who seek out available, needy women with kids. So convicts see their own families as the most vulnerable to these men and take protective action when possible. Of course, some of the smoother cons might try to blackmail the jailed pedophile, but the prison grapevine will make that unfeasable before long. Maybe the pedophile is incredibly attractive and has the option of becoming a strong con’s sex slave, but the level of protection required of the boyfriend/pimp isn’t worth the rewards. I know you guys think prison culture is all “ha ha ha, don’t bend over for the soap,” but now with the maximum minimum drug laws putting more and more of us in prison, its culture is going more and more mainstream. When I was a kid, we threatened to kick each other’s asses. Today boys threaten to “make you my bitch.” ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/10 "2000-11-01T19:56:15Z")
Watch it, Mike, the ears have walls… Southern, feel free to hijack my threads anytime, always good to hear from you. From what I gathered from the article in the Journal, the girls in the family had varying problems with PTSD and other things. They seem to be ok now though. The daughter who brought the whole thing to light was sexually abused from the time she was 3 until she left for USC to live in the dorms. The guy never abused the boys (that I could tell), so maybe there wasn’t a third generation of scumbags created. Apparently this prick walked around armed much of the time, and had no qualms about showing these scared little girls his gun (so to speak). He was incarcerated at least part of the time at Vacaville, not CA’s worst prison but not the nicest either. I hope he got to call a broom handle “daddy.” ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/11 "2000-11-01T20:07:20Z")
It is common knowledge that inmates have a special regard for rapists and pedophiles. They are usually first in line for “prison wife” status. I have had friends argue that this merely continues a tradition of abuse, to which I merely answer, “Tough sh!t!” Take heart that many states are rapidly passing laws that eliminate the statute of limitations for DNA crimes. Child abuse will quickly become much more prosecutable, even long after the fact. Sadly, the shroud of secrecy and shame that blankets this form of criminal behavior is not conducive to exposure. It is for this reason that all parents must encourage their children to talk openly about any subject on earth. To paraphrase the gay community: “Silence = Death.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/12 "2000-11-01T21:01:11Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by adam yax \* \*\*Actually, sexual abuse of anybody, let alone a child, is horrific, but the moron is right about the bible. It does allow you to eat your children. > [@](#): > > Deuteronomy 28:53 - "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee\*\* That’s completely out of context; this is not a command from God to do these things, it’s a warning that people will do them if they continue to act sinfully. Deut. 28:15 says, in essence, “And if you’re bad, all this nasty shit will happen to you” and lists off a bunch of horrible stuff, of which 28:48-54 reads: > [@](#): > > [48] Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. > [49] The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; > [50] A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young: > [51] And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee. > [52] And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. > [53] And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: > [54] So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave. This is obviously not a command. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/13 "2000-11-01T21:25:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\* > [QUOTEThat’s completely out of context; this is not a command from God to do these things, it’s a warning that people will do them if they continue to act sinfully. Deut. 28:15 says, in essence, “And if you’re bad, all this nasty shit will happen to you” and lists off a bunch of horrible stuff, of which 28:48-54 reads: This is obviously not a command. \*\* [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*adam yax: > > Actually, it is literal. It is (check out the context) part of a curse regarding what will happen to the Israelites if they fail to heed the laws of the Bible. The Rabbis have linked this curse to occurrences during the Roman conquest of Israel. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > Deuteronomy 28:53 - "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee > > > > Tell me that this is literal… \*\* > > As Chaim pointed out, it is literal. When Jerusalem was under seige by the Romans, a famine ensued. Some parents, when nothing else was left, ate their own children. > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* I trust Chiam and Zev in all matters biblical and they tell me that it is literal. And if it is in the bible is it not the word of god? ---
**Author:** ![SouthernStyle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@SouthernStyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SouthernStyle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/14 "2000-11-01T21:42:37Z")
Thanks for the encouragement, **EJs**. Perhaps we should just bring back “impalement” for certain crimes. Historically, impalement involves sitting the person to be impaled on a wedge shaped object and optionally supplying additional weight to speed the impalement. The object slowly penetrates the body, with the victim still alive, until it reaches the heart at which time death results. “Hangin’s too good for him!” – Perhaps, but impalement isn’t!!! ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/15 "2000-11-01T21:48:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I really hope the guy found out what rape is all about while in prison. > > I’m sure this guy had a few “accidents” in his term in prison. I hope he did, anyway. > > I hope this waste of skin became intimate with the phrase “Who’s your daddy” on a daily basis during his stay in prison. > > I hope he got to call a broom handle “daddy.” Did you all miss this in the OP: > [@](#): > > Dude was a second-generation pedophile … Sounds like he might already know what it’s like to be sexually abused. ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/16 "2000-11-01T22:41:38Z")
I will agree that I did not take that into consideration when I originally posted. I have been trying to think of the moment he went from being victim to abuser, and what was going on in his head that justified his abuse. He knew it was wrong or else he wouldn’t have threatened the children to keep quiet. My main point about his “learning what rape is all about” is not so much about his being sexually abused (again) but that I hope he feels as physically and mentally and emotionally pained as he made his victims feel. I am sorry that he was a sexual abuse victim but there is no excuse for his actions and his victimization should not sheild him from angry comments or ill wishes that would be visited upon a sexual abuser that was not victimized as a child. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/17 "2000-11-01T23:10:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EJsGirl \* > The article went on to say that nationally, almost 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 7 boys are sexually abused BY A FAMILY MEMBER by the time they’re 18. (Does anyone have a real cite on that stat? I am looking.) I’m not an expert, but I did find [this site on child abuse](http://www.omsys.com/mmcd/courtrev.htm#Rcr16122) that _seems_ to be relatively unbiased. They say, > [@](#): > > [S]tudies show that between 6 and 62 percent of females and 3 to 30 percent of males have had a sexual abuse experience before age 18. The higher rates are from studies with less stringent criteria for sexual abuse and the lower rates are from studies that looked at violent sexual assaults. A more recent national survey found that 27 percent of women and 16 percent of men reported sexual abuse as a child. The rates of 27 percent of women and 16 percent of men are considered to be solid, accurate rates by most researchers. and have citations to back it up. These numbers are not confined to FAMILY MEMBERS, of course, but I understood that in the majority of abuse cases the perpetrator was a family member. With that in mind, their 27% and 16% are not far from your 1/3 and 1/7. However, I’d still like to see what the definitions of “less stringent criteria” versus more stringent criteria are. I suspect that if you define “sexual abuse” as full-bore rape, like the case which you discuss, the percentages would be on the small side. I’m only speculating, of course; I’d like to see some more in-depth information. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2000, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/18 "2000-11-01T23:11:17Z")
I think impalement sounds just grand. And frankly, I had never heard the process described that way. Ouch… I always just assumed it was a spear through the chest or something. ---
**Author:** ![Azargoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Azargoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azargoth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/19 "2000-11-02T05:35:09Z")
Impalement…nah Crucification always seemed like it had to be a nasty way to die, but I still think we should tie him down, cut off his eyelids, and then poor salt in his eyes. Better yet restrain his body to a wall, put a metal rod through his cheeks and attach a chain to both ends and see how much pressure it would take to rip it out. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266/20 "2000-11-02T06:17:52Z")
As much as I’d love to join this gang-bashing of the subject of the OP . . . Anyone who has been molested or assaulted goes through things the likes of which I **hope** as few of you as possible ever experience. As a few of you know, the line of abuse in my father’s family runs through a few generations. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. It’s a horribly evil thing to do/to have done to you. I hope the subject of the OP got counseling in jail. As for painful ways to die . . . Halloween sacrifices are always fun. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-just-when-i-think-i-can-no-longer-be-shocked/39266.md?page=2)