# My god! Shogun, by James Clavell, is a glorious book! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 6, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259 "2006-11-06T04:42:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/21 "2006-11-08T21:29:17Z")
[QUOTE=Darkhold] I think that was Yabu not Toranaga and he wasn’t mesmerized so much as meditating on his coming death because he couldn’t see the small ledge that Blackhorn spotted from the top of the cliff. He wasn’t just sitting there like an idiot he was trapped (as far as he knew). [/QUOTE] Right, but the point being, the samurai could have shouted, “You idiot, there’s a ledge behind you!”, or thrown pebbles at him or something, or just watched him drown and then go to his heir (who was his nephew, right?) and say, “You’re the new Daimyo now. Your uncle drowned.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/22 "2006-11-08T22:07:28Z")
It’s been a couple of years since I read it. What was the thing with the duck? I don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/23 "2006-11-08T22:17:33Z")
[QUOTE=Fiver] It’s been a couple of years since I read it. What was the thing with the duck? I don’t remember. [/QUOTE] There was a turkey Anji-san killed. He leaves it hanging outside to “season” and forgets about it. It begins to rot and smell bad. One of his retainers throws it away and then kills himself. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/24 "2006-11-08T22:24:39Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] There was a turkey Anjin-san killed. He leaves it hanging outside to “season” and forgets about it. It begins to rot and smell bad. One of his retainers throws it away and then kills himself. [/QUOTE] Oh, I remember that scene, but I thought it was a pheasant, not a duck. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/25 "2006-11-08T22:44:19Z")
I thought the mention of a duck was a reference to a scene in a bath house. IIRC, the women offer Blackthorne one of their own, but he turns them down. They offer him a boy, and he shouts that he’s no “God-cursed sodomite.” So one woman says to the others, “Maybe he is like the Koreans and he wants a duck.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/26 "2006-11-23T06:59:32Z")
I’m halfway through the book now, largely as a result of this thread. I picked it up at a used book sale years ago and never found the time. I’m really enjoying it. Domo arigato. I refuse Gozu the honour of committing seppuku. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/27 "2006-11-23T18:38:52Z")
I have re-read the entire Asian Saga many times, and loved it every time. I have even come to love _Whirlwind_, after two attempts at finishing it that failed. READ a book. Don’t listen to it. Sorry, pet peeve. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/28 "2006-11-23T18:40:02Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Rieux] I thought the mention of a duck was a reference to a scene in a bath house. IIRC, the women offer Blackthorne one of their own, but he turns them down. They offer him a boy, and he shouts that he’s no “God-cursed sodomite.” So one woman says to the others, “Maybe he is like the Koreans and he wants a duck.” [/QUOTE] “Just set it (the duck) down. If he wants it, then all is well. If he doesn’t, maybe he won’t notice it.” Or something to that effect! ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/29 "2006-11-23T18:44:34Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] However, his depiction of the ninja was actually fairly accurate. [/QUOTE] I was hoping his ninja were historically accurate, because those were some frickin’ cool ninjas. That scene was one of my favorites. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/30 "2006-11-23T20:12:01Z")
I absolutely love this book. One of my favorites of all time. I coincidentally had the great pleasure of reading it while I was in Japan. Nothing like wearing a kimono and thong slippers in a meditation garden while reading _Shogun_. At least not to this American. I had the next book in hardcover for years (can’t remember if it was Tai Pan or Gai Jin) but I could never get into it so I recently traded it in to a used bookstore. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/31 "2006-11-23T21:09:36Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Rieux] I thought the mention of a duck was a reference to a scene in a bath house. IIRC, the women offer Blackthorne one of their own, but he turns them down. They offer him a boy, and he shouts that he’s no “God-cursed sodomite.” So one woman says to the others, “Maybe he is like the Koreans and he wants a duck.” [/QUOTE] They also offered him a dog, between the boy and the duck. I love that scene, because it shows how open-minded and shameless the Japanese were about sex. Blackthorne turns down the woman because he’s a typical Renaissance European prude, who doesn’t _want_ any nookie because it’s, you know, sinful. But the Japanese simply can’t imagine that – they assume he must be into some REAL serious kink! Now, about that duck…wouldn’t they have a tendency to, you know, explode? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/32 "2006-11-23T22:02:37Z")
If you liked _Shogun_, you will love _Samurai William_ by Giles Milton - the **true** story on which _Shogun_ was based. Proof that reality really is stranger than fiction. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/33 "2006-11-24T00:24:01Z")
[QUOTE=appleciders] I was hoping his ninja were historically accurate, because those were some frickin’ cool ninjas. That scene was one of my favorites. [/QUOTE] Climb up a wall, slip in between guards, casually use the codephrase stolen earlier: that’s something a ninja might have done. Japanese castle design made this kind of thing easier. Actually, as far as it went, the more inpressive ninja exploits had to do with invading castles. They would slip in, set fires (Japanese castles being fairly flammable), open gates, and cap people in the chaos. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/34 "2006-11-24T01:08:26Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] If you liked _Shogun_, you will love _Samurai William_ by Giles Milton - the **true** story on which _Shogun_ was based. Proof that reality really is stranger than fiction. [/QUOTE] I just ordered this, thank you for the suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259/35 "2006-11-24T18:27:09Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] I just ordered this, thank you for the suggestion. [/QUOTE] No problem! 🆒 Though I will also take the opportunity to plug _Nathaniel’s Nutmeg_ by the same authour. Great stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-god-shogun-by-james-clavell-is-a-glorious-book/379259.md?page=1)