# my guidelines for the perfect man **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 25, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920 "2003-07-25T17:11:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/61 "2003-07-26T17:43:57Z")
Sorry, darling, the guy you’re looking for already has a boyfriend. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/62 "2003-07-26T18:28:50Z")
God God, woman! What are you thinking? All of this stuff is merely window dressing! You’ve got to think more logically! I took a marriage class in college and my teacher, while being VERY old fashioned as far as women’s duties were, had some excellent points. There are some things you should look for in a mate that have nothing to do with their smile, or the way they dress – how superficial! Here are the Specific Considerations for Spouse Selection, according to Dr. Richard Carr: Similar values Similar socioeconomic background, race, social, class, religion, education Same common interests Same level of self-esteem Effective communication Handle crisis and resove conflicts Be in love with them as well as love them Be friends and companions Balance togetherness and separateness Know your expectations and preferences and do not waste time dating people who do not fit them **Become the right person, the kind of person people want to marry** Be patient! -He did say that age, race, religion and education can vary for some more tolerant people- Some of the things you described can fall under these categories, but really, if you don’t find someone who fits most of these things, you are going to be in more trouble than its worth and you will rue the day you met them, no matter how cute they are! ---
**Author:** ![Rue\_DeDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rue\_DeDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rue_DeDay)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/63 "2003-07-26T20:03:10Z")
Oh jeez people! Mock the post, not the poster. The cool kids don’t even dogpile in the Pit anymore. **Merla** admitted she was just a pup and the list was a little over the top. You don’t like her list? Don’t date her. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/64 "2003-07-26T21:26:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monstre \* > \*\*Hi, **Super Gnat**. Not black, but blue eyes, play piano and guitar, teach computer programming, love to read, and would seriously **like** a pool table (but won’t happen until I have a bigger house, with room for one…)… just to name a few things… > > (And probably too old, having reached the ripe old age of 32. ;)) \*\* _snaps fingers_ So close! ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/65 "2003-07-27T04:38:12Z")
Awwwwww, **Gnat** … is it because I’m not black? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![IUHomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@IUHomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IUHomer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/66 "2003-07-27T05:57:08Z")
I noticed you did not list one thing that would seem very important : Must not be married. Was this supposed to be assumed? ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/67 "2003-07-27T08:22:14Z")
> [@](#): > > **Be a good kisser- nothing worse than gagging on someone’s tongue thrust down your throat** My dear, that’s why _we_ learn to kiss well; so we can train them! > [@](#): > > **Don’t watch porn in my presence > Don’t tell me one of your main interests is porn** This is all well and good, but you do have to realize that porn is damn near universal amongst guys. I’m willing to settle for, “does not compare me to the chick in the really disturbing rape-fantasy porn he saw,” personally. And that _has_ happened. > [@](#): > > **Don’t cringe or grimace whenever I mention a gynocologist appt.** Tip: unless it is an absolute necessity, do not use the word “gynocologist” around your male, especially if it refers to you seeing the gynocologist. Just use the phrase, “doctor.” “I’m going to see the doctor.” “The doctor told me I was pregnant.” “The doctor said that if we use this cream, the rash’ll clear up in no time.” It saves the guy from having to think about some other guy–and it is always a guy, even if it’s a girl–getting to go where he thinks only he is supposed to be able to go. Indulge him; it’s like the not mentioning porn thing. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/68 "2003-07-27T10:43:19Z")
Lists that like are always fun, if only to file away and laugh at when you finally do find somebody who makes you happy. You’ll find yourself compromising on many things, and getting far-too-lucky on other things you didn’t even think you wanted or needed until you met them, all wrapped up in one person you can’t live without. :shrug: Til then, make all the lists you like. Just don’t ever assume they’ll matter. ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/69 "2003-07-27T22:05:36Z")
Okay, let’s compare the practicality of my list vs. **Merla’s** list. For those of you who do not remember, Merla’s 63-point list for the perfect mate was: [ul] [li]Love me unconditionally[/li][li]Be sensitive- but not TOO sensitive. I want a man who understands my needs, but is macho in emergencies[/li][li]Don’t be a wimp. Know how to take charge[/li][li]Be within 3 years of my age. I’m tired of men who are 20 years older than me hitting on me (this has indeed happened)[/li][li]Don’t be homophobic[/li][li]Don’t be misogynistic[/li][li]No druggies[/li][li]No excessive drinkers. I get along fine without being one, and you can too[/li][li]Understand that some people have alternative lifestyles[/li][li]Don’t be a religious extremist- both atheists and evangelists are too extreme[/li][li]Swear only sparingly[/li][li]Know how to spell correctly- and know how to take corrections when you are wrong[/li][li]Never confuse “your” and “you’re” as in, don’t tell me online “your so funny”. It grinds on my nerves.[/li][li]Have a sense of humor- but not crude humor. In fact, don’t even find crude humor funny[/li][li]Don’t spit in my presence[/li][li]If you burp, excuse yourself[/li][li]Try not to emit so many aromas[/li][li]Hold open doors for me[/li][li]Don’t wear your pants down around your knees with your boxers showing[/li][li]Don’t wear thong underwear. At least not when I’m around[/li][li]Dress wisely- every girl’s crazy about a sharp dressed man[/li][li]Never use words like “dick” or “pussy” in my presence. They are rude and gross. Call things what they are, but only if you MUST talk about them[/li][li]Don’t cringe or grimace whenever I mention a gynocologist appt.[/li][li]If I am being crabby, I have my reasons. NEVER, EVER ask “is it that time of the month again?”[/li][li]When I say “nothing” is wrong, it usually means something is. Realize this and inquire further[/li][li]If you prefer to be vegan or remain Kosher, I’ll respect that. Just don’t try to convert me, I enjoy my red meat and Italian food[/li][li]Must have a full head of hair. Length doesn’t matter, but it must be lush so I can run my fingers through it[/li][li]Must have good teeth. There have been astounding advances in the dentistry field[/li][li]Must be taller than me- since I’m 5’3”, I don’t think this is asking too much[/li][li]Shower or bathe regularly[/li][li]Don’t walk around smelling like an old spice truck overturned[/li][li]No pit stains- deodorant and anti-perspirant are wonderful inventions.[/li][li]Be understanding when I don’t want to be physical[/li][li]Know the power of a wink- and use them[/li][li]Be a good kisser- nothing worse than gagging on someone’s tongue thrust down your throat[/li][li]But kiss creatively[/li][li]A peck on the cheek doesn’t mean I want to sleep with you right then and there[/li][li]Don’t call people “niggers” (excuse the usage here) or “fags”. Doing so is cause for immediate break-uppage[/li][li]Don’t talk in “gangsta rap”[/li][li]Don’t watch porn in my presence[/li][li]Don’t tell me one of your main interests is porn[/li][li]Don’t try to buy my love[/li][li]NEVER compare me to another woman. Especially movie stars or someone you have dated before[/li][li]Don’t tell me my entire town and state is full of shallow, stupid materialistic people (this HAS happened to me)[/li][li]Love roller coasters as much as I do[/li][li]Love to travel as much as I do[/li][li]Must be in good shape. Enjoy going rock climbing and white water rafting with me[/li][li]Love watermelon[/li][li]Enjoy just being with me.[/li] Then I figured that while I’ve gone this far, I may as well add some complete fantasy ones: [li]Know how to ride a horse. It’s romantic- especially the idea of a rescue on horseback[/li][li]Know the power of simply listening to each other’s heartbeats[/li][li]Prefer cats to dogs[/li][li]Be an excellent cook- every man can stand to take a page out of Remington Steele’s book.[/li][li]Be aware of the environment, but not to the point of extremism[/li][li]Play a musical instrument- preferably not something weird like the digiridoo or the kazoo[/li][li]Understand my need for 12 hour beauty sleep[/li][li]Understand my undying love for Pierce Brosnan, as strange as that is[/li][li]Like the music I like[/li][li]Be a good writer. Write me stories that are fabulous[/li][li]Understand me as a writer. Give me constructive criticism on my pieces[/li][li]Have a wonderful voice- something I can bask in. Be able to make it both soothing and arousing[/li][li]Love the ocean as I do[/li][li]I may as well say it again- love me unconditionally.[/ul][/li] My list: [ul] [li]Big tits[/ul][/li] Now let’s see how these work in real life: Merla meets a man who meets all 63 criteria! Then, one fateful and mournful day, he sends her a quick email and has a typo in “your” or “you’re.” Can the relationship survive? My list. She sends me an email that confuses “your” and “you’re” “arctic” with “antarctic” and “asshat” with “fuckwad.” However, she still has big tits. No problem. Back in Merla’s life, she is reassured when her man continues to open doors for her, take charge, understands her needs, and is macho in a dramatic horseback rescue. However, he strains a ligament during the rescue and now sometimes neglects to open doors for her. Can this relationship be saved? Girlfriend charges up an obscene sum on the credit card, doesn’t know the recipe for toast, and hires a maid to change TV channels. But the maid has big tits. Everything’s fine over here. Merla’s love of rollercoasters has gotten out of control. She is stealing money to ride coasters, is lying about how often she rides them, and is hanging out with a lower class of people who do nothing but travel around the country riding rollercoasters. Her boyfriend stages an intervention. It is apparent, therefore, that he does not love her _unconditionally._ Girlfriend burns down the garage because she did not realize tiki torches should be used only outdoors. Tits? Still big 'uns. Back at the Merla soap opera, he boyfriend has finally torn his hair out trying to keep up with the 63-point list of demands. He is a talented author, but that means he thinks it’s his prerogative to drink like a fish. Merla finds him sneaking around and critiquing the essay of that trampy young thing in the low-rise jeans and thong. Girlfriend loses her hair. Yep, that’s freaky. Still got them tits, though. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/70 "2003-07-27T22:34:33Z")
No two ways about it, **Andy** – you are on the road to happiness. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@pestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pestie)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/71 "2003-07-27T23:19:58Z")
**Andy** - tell us more about the trampy young thing in the low-rise jeans and thong. Please? ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/72 "2003-07-28T01:53:34Z")
Well, I would let her speak for herself – but she doesn’t like to talk with her mouth full, if ya know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Rabid\_Squirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Rabid\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rabid_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/73 "2003-07-28T02:21:04Z")
Arrgle-fark-quat! You beat me to it **Andy**! If I wasn’t so charming, debonair and devishly handsome man, I would ammend that list to include: - Easy to chase and capture - Show three signs of life. **…** Seriously? My guidelines for the perfect woman: - Good friend - I love her and she loves me back 'Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Rabid\_Squirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Rabid\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rabid_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/74 "2003-07-28T02:29:56Z")
Well, :smack: hopefully :smack: the dating criteria :smack: won’t be :smack: including correct use of vB codes :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/75 "2003-07-28T02:47:57Z")
Now, now, **Rabid\_Squirrel.** Merla doesn’t like guys who commit self abuse. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/76 "2003-07-28T02:52:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Merla \* > \*\*I’m fairly new at this game called love- or at least the game called dating. But I’m tired of guys that annoy me, are rude to me, are morons, or dump me for other women. I decided to do something completely pointless and sit down and write all the things that would make a man perfect. So I wrote- and wrote- a little too much, I kept writing until I had more than a page. I figured out that if a man would follow all the guidelines on this list, he would be ideal. I know I’m asking WAY too much for anyone to follow all of these- but I think some guys could at least try to follow at least HALF of them. Men- if any of you comply to all of these guidelines, I’m the woman for you! > Men dopers, take the time to read these. They might benefit you. > Women dopers: do any of you agree with my guidelines? > Love me unconditionally As I expect you to unconditionally love me (doesn’t this put most of the rest of your list in the crapper?) Be sensitive- but not TOO sensitive. I want a man who understands my needs, but is macho in emergencies Don’t be a wimp. Know how to take charge So I should have radar and superintuitive powers, also? Be within 3 years of my age. I’m tired of men who are 20 years older than me hitting on me (this has indeed happened) So you think that you’ll find Perfect Man in a younger package, eh? Don’t be homophobic Don’t be misogynistic No druggies No excessive drinkers. I get along fine without being one, and you can too Understand that some people have alternative lifestyles Don’t be a religious extremist- both atheists and evangelists are too extreme Swear only sparingly Know how to spell correctly- and know how to take corrections when you are wrong As a person so willing to focus on the faults of others, are you up for the same measure of evaluation? Never confuse “your” and “you’re” as in, don’t tell me online “your so funny”. It grinds on my nerves. Have a sense of humor- but not crude humor. In fact, don’t even find crude humor funny Don’t spit in my presence If you burp, excuse yourself Try not to emit so many aromas Hold open doors for me And I should need to hold open a door for her Highness? I’d have thought a legion of warriors would be happy to open the doors for such Royalty. As if. Don’t wear your pants down around your knees with your boxers showing Don’t wear thong underwear. At least not when I’m around Dress wisely- every girl’s crazy about a sharp dressed man Never use words like “dick” or “pussy” in my presence. They are rude and gross. Call things what they are, but only if you MUST talk about them Don’t cringe or grimace whenever I mention a gynocologist appt. I won’t cringe when you learn how to spell the word If I am being crabby, I have my reasons. NEVER, EVER ask “is it that time of the month again?” When I say “nothing” is wrong, it usually means something is. Realize this and inquire further If you prefer to be vegan or remain Kosher, I’ll respect that. Just don’t try to convert me, I enjoy my red meat and Italian food Must have a full head of hair. Length doesn’t matter, but it must be lush so I can run my fingers through it Must have good teeth. There have been astounding advances in the dentistry field Must be taller than me- since I’m 5’3”, I don’t think this is asking too much Shower or bathe regularly Don’t walk around smelling like an old spice truck overturned No pit stains- deodorant and anti-perspirant are wonderful inventions. Be understanding when I don’t want to be physical Know the power of a wink- and use them Be a good kisser- nothing worse than gagging on someone’s tongue thrust down your throat But kiss creatively A peck on the cheek doesn’t mean I want to sleep with you right then and there Don’t call people “niggers” (excuse the usage here) or “fags”. Doing so is cause for immediate break-uppage Don’t talk in “gangsta rap” Don’t watch porn in my presence Don’t tell me one of your main interests is porn Don’t try to buy my love NEVER compare me to another woman. Especially movie stars or someone you have dated before Don’t tell me my entire town and state is full of shallow, stupid materialistic people (this HAS happened to me) Love roller coasters as much as I do Love to travel as much as I do Must be in good shape. Enjoy going rock climbing and white water rafting with me Love watermelon Enjoy just being with me. Then I figured that while I’ve gone this far, I may as well add some complete fantasy ones: Know how to ride a horse. It’s romantic- especially the idea of a rescue on horseback Know the power of simply listening to each other’s heartbeats Prefer cats to dogs Be an excellent cook- every man can stand to take a page out of Remington Steele’s book. Be aware of the environment, but not to the point of extremism Play a musical instrument- preferably not something weird like the digiridoo or the kazoo Understand my need for 12 hour beauty sleep Understand my undying love for Pierce Brosnan, as strange as that is Like the music I like Be a good writer. Write me stories that are fabulous Understand me as a writer. Give me constructive criticism on my pieces Have a wonderful voice- something I can bask in. Be able to make it both soothing and arousing Love the ocean as I do I may as well say it again- love me unconditionally. So that’s it. I know I’m being too demanding, but oh well. These are the guidelines for the perfect man, not a satisfactory man. I doubt I’ll ever find him. But here are the rules. Merla \*\* Sweet Jesus. You are a very self absorbed female. I hope that you find a man who will fulfill your every want, and at the same time be fully myopic towards your faults. Failing that, you are destined to have a very lonely life. Good luck. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/77 "2003-07-28T04:47:02Z")
I don’t know why you guys are being so harsh - if you have to conjure up the perfect fantasy mate, why not go all out? If I were creating a guy from scratch, I’d probably put silly things on it like “has double jointed fingers”, or completely shallow things like “is a 22 year old multi-billionaire”, even though I wouldn’t dream of judging my boyfriends by this criteria. I’m sure my current boyfriend wouldn’t live up to most of the points (I doubt there’s a guy out there who could), but I’d still choose him over my hypothetical 22 year old double jointed multi-billionaire because there’s a difference between perfect and perfect for _me_. ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/78 "2003-07-28T05:32:46Z")
Hmm. How about “no AIDS or SDTs?” 😕 ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/79 "2003-07-28T05:47:33Z")
Hey Merla, I read the OP, and it does say “Perfect Man.” I wouldn’t take the criticism thus far too harshly. I think what some posters may be searching for is what your “real life” list looks like, and possibly how important each criteria would be. Truth be told, I think you would find it as useful (if not more) than your “Perfect” list. So how about it? Do you have a “Realistic Man” list as well? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920/80 "2003-07-28T06:57:31Z")
So how horrifying can we make someone who still fits **Merla** ’s list. If he meets the entire list its ok that… Hes a not yet divorced, 21 year old with 4 children by different women all in different foster homes, a convicted sex offender, whos wife left him yesterday, been known to deal a little coke to pay the bills but doesn’t use himself, and whenever hes home alone masturbates to his favorite bits of gay porn. Lives in a motel along with his old cell mate. He doesn’t use the word penis but always has some of the most bizzare penile euphemisms imaginable (Mr Bodangles, protein torpedo, prince everhard, pump action yogurt rifle, etc) He also loves you unconditionally, just like he loves the other four women hes been sleeping with on the side. He just has soooo much love to share you wouldn’t be able to handle it all, so he does you the favor of giving you a break and letting one of his other women take care of his needs for that afternoon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-guidelines-for-the-perfect-man/190920.md?page=5)