# My husband's grandmother doesn't want to give a tip **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348 "2005-06-29T12:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/41 "2005-06-29T16:37:52Z")
Believe me, the restaurant isn’t “pocketing” anything. Restaurants open and close like mad, restauranteurs are not earning scads of money, the business is very competitive. The only difference between the US and non-US system is that in the US, the payment for service goes straight from the customer to the server. Non-US, that money is filtered through the restaurant’s bank account first. Arguments can be made on both sides to claim one is better than the other. However, nobody is putting anything over on anyone else, regardless of which system is used. Really, if you think the restaurant is pocketing all this extra money, open one up and cash in, baby! ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/42 "2005-06-29T16:39:26Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Oh come on… if you don’t know that the service in an American restaurant is extra, and it’s generally between 15 and 20%, then you’ve been living in a hole all your life. Why post the obvious? What restaurants in the US have you been in where service isn’t extra? I didn’t say I didn’t _know_ that this is the practice. The whole point is that the current culture of expected tipping allows the management to not only shift the burden of paying a salary from them to the customer directly, but it gives them the marketing tool of _printing lower prices on the menu_ – it’s just a psychological effect, yes, but why do you think gas stations charge 2.19[sup]9[sup] per gallon instead of 2.20? It visually _looks_ like you’re getting a better deal. > [@Girl From Mars](#): > > we found whatever the quality of service we got, we were expected to pay the full tip - and we got some really crappy service. So I think for that reason again, it’s irritating. If the business was responsible for paying an appropriate wage, they may take more ownership on the quality of service their staff provide. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/43 "2005-06-29T16:43:50Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The only difference between the US and non-US system is that in the US, the payment for service goes straight from the customer to the server. Actually, that brings up a question (which I ask not to make an argument, but because I don’t know what the rules on it actually are, as I don’t work as a waiter). How is this portion of the waiter’s income taxed? Does the employer still have to pay matching social security taxes on tips, for instance, even though it wasn’t paid directly by the employer? I don’t know what the tax rules on this are. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/44 "2005-06-29T16:44:12Z")
> [@Girl From Mars](#): > > Also, the tip is so accepted, that in general service staff don’t go out of their way to earn it. we found whatever the quality of service we got, we were expected to pay the full tip - and we got some really crappy service. So I think for that reason again, it’s irritating. If the business was responsible for paying an appropriate wage, they may take more ownership on the quality of service their staff provide. Who “expected” you to pay the full tip? I’m a big tipper - when service is worth it. But plain ol’ run of the mill service doesn’t get more than 15%, and I have no qualms about leaving less if I feel the service was substandard. If you left 15%-20% tips for crappy service, you shouldn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/45 "2005-06-29T17:13:39Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Most people leave 15-20% tips. I’ve never waited, so anyone who has please correct me, but I’m pretty sure that most nights, the income is pretty consistent from night to night. Nope. It depends on the type and location of restaurant or bar, but all have “slow” and “good” nights. Breakfast and lunch are typically more consistant, but the meals are smaller/cheaper and the tips are subsequently lower (plus, the range of time for those meals is smaller; about 1-1/2 to 2 hours as opposed to 3-4 for supper.) Displease the management and as a server you’ll be assigned to those nights where you get little or nothing. So, the “tipping” system definitely doesn’t give you a consistant income. As an example: at one of my local haunts, the two most senior waitresses only work Friday and Saturday nights, plus some lunch shifts. The more junior waitresses vie for the open slots on those shifts but mostly have to settle for weeknight shifts in which the take is typically 25% to 30% of what they’d make on a Friday. Fortunately, for them, in California minimum wage for servers is the same as for everyone else, but in most places, as previously noted, wage is $2.13+tips; the former part of that is considered “gas money”, i.e. enough to get you back and forth to work, and the latter is rent, groceries, and other needs. It would be nice if it were different, but that isn’t going to happen here, either culturally or legislatively. I don’t know about the hospitality industry in Au/NZ, but in the US it is definitely a marginal industry–most “sit down” restaurants make far more money off of liquor than food, and it makes a big difference to them not to have to shell out full wages for servers. It sucks, but that’s how it is. On the high side, at least the restaurant owner isn’t skimming his percentage off the top before passing wages onto the server, so all in all tipping may be cheaper. It certainly provides incentives to the most experienced and effective waiters to seek employment at the best (most expensive) restaurants. As for the OP…unless she’s in dementia and can’t take care of herself, it’s her money, I guess. Plenty of folks _still_ give money to the likes of Oral Roberts and Jerry Falwell, who are, IMHO, worse than a mere con man. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/46 "2005-06-29T17:19:31Z")
> [@Lillith Fair](#): > > I don’t know if China is taking over the Panama Canal. Weird – first I’d heard of it, but I googled a little, and apparently some people do think that. Sounds like more conspiracy theories, but apparently it’s based on a Hong Kong company called Hutchison Port Holdings, who [control ports on both ends of the Panama Canal](http://archives.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/asia/06/01/hongkong.hutchison/index.html), and it looks like they do business pretty worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/47 "2005-06-29T17:22:31Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I’d hope that if you came for a visit you’d adjust your ideas accordingly. Why should she adjust her ideas? She’s perfectly entitled to prefer a system in which the employer is required to pay his or her employees a decent wage, rather than relying on the vagaries of the general public. If **calm kiwi** comes to the US to visit, i would hope that she would follow the custom of tipping as it is practiced here. And she has already indicated in this thread that she would do so. But why should she “adjust her ideas” just because they happen to be different from yours? > [@Neurotik](#): > > Again, either way it’s your money that’s providing the income. Makes no difference whether I give it directly to them or do it through the restaurant. Actually, it can make a considerable difference in certain circumstances. Because if you’re a waiter in an American restaurant, and you have a really slow night where virtually no-one shows up, then you make virtually no money. Whereas if your are on a proper wage, you don’t get penalized for the restaurant’s poor marketing. Of course, there’s the obverse, whereby a waiter working for tips can make really great money on a good night, whereas the waiter working for a wage gets no more when it’s busy than when it’s quiet. I’ve worked as a waiter and bartender under both systems (Australia, UK, Canada), and im honestly not sure which system i prefer, from the worker’s point of view. But, from a philosophical point of view, i still believe it should be incumbent on the employer to pay an employee’s wages. > [@Girl From Mars](#): > > Also from a country where tipping is not normal - and I find that visiting the US and having to tip grates just a little. Firstly, the charged by the restaurant don’t appear to be significantly lower than overseas, considering a 20-30% wage bill is not being covered. So there is the feeling that you are somehow paying for the service twice - and the business is pocketing the difference. Yeah, this has been my experience also. I remember thinking when i first moved to North America that restaurant food would probably be considerably cheaper than restaurant food in places like Australia. After all, the owner doesn’t have to pay the same relatively high wages that Australian restauranteurs have to pay, and the customer is expected to subsidize the service staff’s paycheck by tipping. But, on arriving here, i found that the listed menu price in American restaurants was, for the most part, very close to similar menu prices in Australia. Either every other restaurant expense (rent, produce costs, etc., etc.) is that much more expensive in the US, or the American dining public is being screwed. There’s one other argument that some people make about the tipping system. They argue that a waiter working for tips is likely to do a better job than one working for a wage, because of the incentive to work harder for a better tip. Well, having been on both sides of the fence—waiter and customer—in tipping and non-tipping environments, i can honestly say that the service i receive at restaurants in the US and Canada is, on average, no worse than the service i receive in restaurants in Australia and England. And when i was working as a waiter, i tried to do my job professionally no matter what the system of remuneration. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/48 "2005-06-29T17:24:50Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Who “expected” you to pay the full tip? I’m a big tipper - when service is worth it. But plain ol’ run of the mill service doesn’t get more than 15%, and I have no qualms about leaving less if I feel the service was substandard. If you left 15%-20% tips for crappy service, you shouldn’t have. We were abused by the service person on the one occasion we tipped only 10% due to bad service. It was obvious on most occasions that is was expected. ---
**Author:** ![badbadrubberpiggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@badbadrubberpiggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badbadrubberpiggy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/49 "2005-06-29T17:27:52Z")
> [@Girl From Mars](#): > > We were abused by the service person on the one occasion we tipped only 10% due to bad service. It was obvious on most occasions that is was expected. If you were abused by a server you should not have tipped AT ALL. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/50 "2005-06-29T17:31:43Z")
> [@badbadrubberpiggy](#): > > If you were abused by a server you should not have tipped AT ALL. Too late once we paid! Apparently he thought we should have been more generous. ---
**Author:** ![vtynos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f07891/32.png) [@vtynos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vtynos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/51 "2005-06-29T17:51:58Z")
If I do not want to tip for service, can I choose to decline service? I shall go into the kitchens, tell the chef what I would like, wait until he’s cooked it, take it out to my table, and then, once I have finished, I shall bus my own table and pocket the 15-20%. I will even ask myself if everything is all right just often enough to be annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/52 "2005-06-29T18:15:37Z")
> [@vtynos](#): > > I will even ask myself if everything is all right just often enough to be annoying. You’re only allowed to do this when your mouth is full, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/53 "2005-06-29T18:16:45Z")
> [@vtynos](#): > > If I do not want to tip for service, can I choose to decline service? I shall go into the kitchens, tell the chef what I would like, wait until he’s cooked it, take it out to my table, and then, once I have finished, I shall bus my own table and pocket the 15-20%. I will even ask myself if everything is all right just often enough to be annoying. Yeah, but how are you going to ask yourself how everything tastes while your mouth is already full? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/54 "2005-06-29T18:37:56Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Maybe it is, maybe it ain’t. Here’s the deal. 15%. Easy math. Take your bill, move one decimal place over, you got 10%. Add half again, you got 15%. Easy. You wash your hands after you use the toilet? Why? Ain’t no law saying you have to. But you’re expected to, and you do. > > You tip 15% of your meal. It ain’t alms. It’s the way it is. 20% is even easier to figure out. But again, the point is why should people feel obligated to tip for bad service. It seems some people here say “well if they do a really really bad job i leave less of a tip”. You know what if I get bad service I don’t tip. They get nothing, zip. If they do well i’ll give them 15% or more depending on the service. But I don’t give a damn if they’re paid at the end of the day with dropped food sweepings and bits of string, if someone isn’t serving me, messes up my order, doesn’t provide me beverages when i need them, they aren’t getting a tip. ---
**Author:** ![badbadrubberpiggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@badbadrubberpiggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badbadrubberpiggy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/55 "2005-06-29T18:57:41Z")
> [@Girl From Mars](#): > > Too late once we paid! Apparently he thought we should have been more generous. I get it - you tipped 10% for poor service, THEN got abused for a small tip (it’s happened to me before as well). I thought you meant you were abused by the server but gave him/her a tip anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wonko_The_Sane)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/56 "2005-06-29T19:19:20Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > It makes a huge difference! > > In one scenario the waitperson has a guaranteed income from their employer, in the the other scenario they are dependent on the whims of the customers. They may make heaps or they may make diddly-crap. > > Most of us have living expenses that are more fixed then the lottery that is tips. You wacky Kiwis! I heard that things are so backwards there, that when we in the US are enjoying summer, it’s actually colder there, and in the winter, when it’s supposed to be cold, you have summer-like conditions! Even more bizzarre than that, when it’s nice and sunny in a proper country like the USA, it’s DARK in New Zealand, and when it’s dark in the USA, it’s actually sunny there! How do you people sleep, that’s what I want to know! Just crazy, CRAZY I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/57 "2005-06-29T20:37:30Z")
Totally nutty. They even put beetroot into their hamburgers… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/58 "2005-06-29T21:02:22Z")
> [@Lillith Fair](#): > > My husband’s grandmother has been giving money to far right-wing causes. What happenned to freedom of speech? You may disagree with her opinions, but you must respect her right to hold them. I’ll bet you wouldn’t have blinked if she were giving to the Democrats. A quick Google shows that concern about Chinese control of the Panama Canal is [very real](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/553979.stm). I don’t know if it’s justified, though - I’m not sufficiently informed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/59 "2005-06-29T22:22:24Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > You’re either really really fucking stupid or being deliberatly dense to make an idiotic point. > > In NZ and Australia the servers are paid an actual wage and we don’t have to tip them to ensure they can eat. [official moderator warning]I see you’ve been here since 2001 and you have over 3000 posts-you have no excuse whatsoever for posting in this manner outside of The BBQ Pit. Don’t do it again.[/official moderator warning] ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/60 "2005-06-29T22:53:44Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > But it’s our culture, so why do you feel the need to argue it? Would you go to Spain and constantly complain about the siestas because the stores are closed when you want to shop? Actually, in many parts of Spain, particularly the large urban areas, the siesta is becoming a thing of the past. When people commute long distances to work, it no longer becomes practical to go home for an afternoon nap. And the fact that so many businesses and financial institutions operate in an internationally integrated economy means that shutting down for a few hours during the day is almost impossible for many of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348.md?page=4)