# My husband's grandmother doesn't want to give a tip **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348 "2005-06-29T12:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ashes\_Ashes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ashes\_Ashes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashes_Ashes)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/61 "2005-06-29T23:16:20Z")
> [@Girl From Mars](#): > > We were abused by the service person on the one occasion we tipped only 10% due to bad service. It was obvious on most occasions that is was expected. That guy needs to be careful. Didn’t he see the episode of the Sopranos where the complaining waiter ended up beaten to death? The only problem with tipping is one I haven’t seen mentioned yet. Sometimes the service is bad not because of the waitperson, but because of trouble in the kitchen. When I waited, our cook was well along the path to a nasty heroin addiction (she wasn’t fired because she was all we could get in this rural area). She did a lousy job and all I could do was apologize to the customers, hoping they wouldn’t take their displeasure out on me. Most of the time they gave me a lousy tip or none at all. All in all, I’d rather see waitstaff receive minimum wage and have tipping be only for extraordinary service. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/62 "2005-06-29T23:22:40Z")
> [@Ashes](#): > > The only problem with tipping is one I haven’t seen mentioned yet. Sometimes the service is bad not because of the waitperson, but because of trouble in the kitchen. This is an important point, and one that some diners often seem to forget. If your food is way too slow to arrive, or it arrives poorly prepared, don’t stiff the waiter on the tip. Complain to the manager about the delay, and ask that the price of the meal itself be reduced. That way, you are compensated for your inconvenience without having to take it out on your server, who may have been completely blameless. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/63 "2005-06-29T23:46:31Z")
> [@Lillith Fair](#): > > Grandma thinks that if she gets something printed in the mail it must be true. So she gives money to these causes. Can you email me her address? But seriously: Several years ago my grandfather took me and a couple of family members out to dinner. The bill was ninety-one bucks and change. He handed the server a hundred-dollar bill and told him to keep it. I didn’t say anything, but as we were walking out, I said I needed to go to the bathroom, and I went back, found the server, and gave him an extra ten. I’m sure we’ve all done something like that from time to time. The bigger problem, sending money to random causes for paranoid reasons? You might want to consider speaking to an attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/64 "2005-06-30T01:53:26Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > It is a strange culture. > > Expecting the customer to pay your wage bill is just rude. Maybe, maybe not. IT’s the custom here, and if you eat out in the US, you’re expected to tip. Not tipping because you don’t believe in it doesn’t change the system, it just screws over the people trying to make a living. Now, you said you would follow the custom if you were in the US, so I really have no beef with you. BUT, there are people who say, “Well, I’m from Such-And-Such-Landia and we don’t tip so too bad-no tip for you!” THOSE people are jerks. They’re the equivalent of the Ugly Americans who bitch because people in Russia speak Russian rather than English, and their money is fake. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/65 "2005-06-30T02:17:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [official moderator warning]I see you’ve been here since 2001 and you have over 3000 posts-you have no excuse whatsoever for posting in this manner outside of The BBQ Pit. Don’t do it again.[/official moderator warning] I’m not going to argue that but I think that except for the naughty language Realitychuck was being as big a jerk as I apparantly was. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/66 "2005-06-30T03:11:26Z")
I’m with **calm kiwi** on this one. Having said that, now that I am in the United States I will tip 20%, because that is how it is done. Back in South Africa I would have only tipped 10-15%. I hate tipping. I am bothered by it’s arbitrary nature and the marketing advantage of being able to advertise a false price. I don’t see why the restaurant industry has to have a seperate minimum wage. No seperate minimum wage, and no tipping. If I buy a nice shirt in a store for $50 and am assisted by a helpful employee, I’m not expected to tip $10. If this was standard practice and I should “just know that is the case, it’s easy to do the math” it wouldn’t be any more correct. They’re basically outsourcing one of their operating costs directly to the customer. What if the store advertises $50, but at checkout expects you to contribue $5 towards their monthly electricity bill? Would that make sense to anyone, even if it was standard practice? Perhaps this isn’t a moral argument at all. Perhaps it’s perfectly ethical to itemize all the store/restaurant expenses and charge you after the fact, assuming this is standard practice and easy to calculate. I’d still think it better to have a transparent price. Which is why I prefer VAT inclusive prices in South Africa over having to add sales tax in my head everywhere I go in the States. ---
**Author:** ![Lillith\_Fair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@Lillith\_Fair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lillith_Fair)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/67 "2005-06-30T14:07:54Z")
Well, at this point my mother-in-law says that her mother wouldn’t have been doing this 10 years ago. She and my father-in-law are finally realizing it’s just a little too much. Other than the sending checks out she seems to be in good mental health. She has always been a Republican but it has just gotten to be weird. Piles and piles of mail all over the house. She writes the date on the envelope and the amount, usual $5, $10 or $15. Sorry I started the whole debate on the tipping thing. I was just pointing out that helping someone closer to home that she actually has contact with makes more sense to me. Or she could give to her church (United Methodist). If you give to the United Methodist Committee on Relief (UMCOR), 100% of your donation goes towards whatever disaster or program you are wanting to help because the administration is paid by another budget of the UMC. I wish she would just give more to her church. But, of course, none of my business. At least this past visit she didn’t start talking about Madelyn Murray O’Hair again. I am so sick of that subject. Which I just brought up. Again. Sorry. I’ll go back to work now and leave you all alone. ---
**Author:** ![xbuckeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9e8a1a/32.png) [@xbuckeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xbuckeye)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/68 "2005-06-30T15:30:21Z")
Unfortunatey, I think that some of our elderly spend an awful lot of time at home watching CNN or MSNBC or FoxNews. My grandfather, in his 80’s, refuses to believe that there is no draft and that all my male friends aren’t being sent to Iraq to get killed. He thinks I am naive for saying that there isn’t a draft. He also has been known to tip pocket change at restaraunts. Fortunately, he started using a credit card more and would hand the receipt to someone else to fill in the tip. I usually tip around 15%, more if my grandfather has been particularly demanding, condescending, or rude. I have no solution for getting the contributions to questionable charities stopped. Could you perhaps contact them and tell them that she died, please stop sending materials? Telling people that someone is dead stops unwanted solicitaion. Tiping should not be based solely on percent of bill. I have tipped more than 100% before. My friend and I went to a 24 hour greasy spoon during their off time, had sundays and iced teas and studied Biochemistry for hours. The waitress was really nice to keep our glasses full all afternoon and give us an extra big table to spread out all our materials. We thanked her by leaving her a nice tip and clearing out before the next meal rush. Tipping is a way to thank people for extra consideration. Also, you should never not leave a tip or the server may assume that you forgot. You should leave a pointedly small tip. I have heard some people leave a pointedly small tip at the bottom of their water glass. This was the server knows that you were displeased with your service. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/69 "2005-06-30T15:44:24Z")
> [@Ashes](#): > > All in all, I’d rather see waitstaff receive minimum wage and have tipping be only for extraordinary service. As the link I provided earlier shows, by law, waitstaff is guaranteed the federal minimum wage. If the total amount of your salary and tips does not equal the federal minimum wage, your employer has to pay you the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/70 "2005-06-30T18:46:05Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > As the link I provided earlier shows, by law, waitstaff is guaranteed the federal minimum wage. If the total amount of your salary and tips does not equal the federal minimum wage, your employer has to pay you the difference. Yes, but from the waitstaff I’ve talked to, often the employer doesn’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/71 "2005-06-30T20:42:05Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Actually, in many parts of Spain, particularly the large urban areas, the siesta is becoming a thing of the past. When people commute long distances to work, it no longer becomes practical to go home for an afternoon nap. And the fact that so many businesses and financial institutions operate in an internationally integrated economy means that shutting down for a few hours during the day is almost impossible for many of them. I believe they recently passed a new law (I believe it wasn’t the first one) restricting further the “right” to siesta. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/72 "2005-06-30T20:47:24Z")
> [@xbuckeye](#): > > I have no solution for getting the contributions to questionable charities stopped. Could you perhaps contact them and tell them that she died, please stop sending materials? Telling people that someone is dead stops unwanted solicitaion. > . Why should the OP or her husband do that? A grandmother isn’t a baby. Barring an actual mental inability, she’s every right to spend her money as she sees fit. I think doing that is very unethical. Secretly plotting so that she won’t spend her money on something you don’t like? Would you like someone to play this trick on you? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/73 "2005-06-30T21:00:58Z")
> [@Lillith Fair](#): > > Or she could give to her church (United Methodist). If you give to the United Methodist Committee on Relief (UMCOR), 100% of your donation goes towards whatever disaster or program you are wanting to help because the administration is paid by another budget of the UMC. I wish she would just give more to her church. > . I’m atheist, and I don’t want my mother to give money to a church. What do you people suggest I should do to make sure she will be unable to? She’s also been giving money to one of my brother, who, I think, doesn’t spend it wisely. How could I prevent this, and if possible make sure that she will give her money to me instead (I’ve really good ideas about how to spend it) ? Any advices? ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/74 "2005-06-30T21:29:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Yes, but from the waitstaff I’ve talked to, often the employer doesn’t bother. WTF! So why should the customer be responsible for that? ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/75 "2005-06-30T21:41:49Z")
> [@xbuckeye](#): > > Telling people that someone is dead stops unwanted solicitaion. Huh. Hasn’t worked for my dad, and he really _is_ dead–going on 10 years now . . . ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/76 "2005-06-30T21:43:10Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Wrong-o my Kiwi friend. Tips are the bulk of a service person’s salary, and _must_ be paid. Your boss doesn’t pay you only if he feels like you looked appropriately hot in that dress today, you shouldn’t tip your server because you feel like it. At least here in the States. > > In the States, waitstaff usually don’t get a decent wage, and rely on you. It shouldn’t be relying on your generosity. It should be, pay me for services rendered, which is, you ordered food & drinks, I brought 'em. Pay up. … What… the…hell? That point of view is mindblowingly bullshat Boo fing hoo for the poor waiters out there. Feel like you don’t get paid enough? Get a new job. Don’t expect me to pay you for doing your job. I don’t ip the guy who constucted the freeway I use to drive on. I don’t tip the bag boy at the supermarket. Waiters need to get over themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/77 "2005-06-30T21:43:23Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Wrong-o my Kiwi friend. Tips are the bulk of a service person’s salary, and _must_ be paid. Your boss doesn’t pay you only if he feels like you looked appropriately hot in that dress today, you shouldn’t tip your server because you feel like it. At least here in the States. > > In the States, waitstaff usually don’t get a decent wage, and rely on you. It shouldn’t be relying on your generosity. It should be, pay me for services rendered, which is, you ordered food & drinks, I brought 'em. Pay up. … What… the…hell? That point of view is mindblowingly bullshat Boo fing hoo for the poor waiters out there. Feel like you don’t get paid enough? Get a new job. Don’t expect me to pay you for doing your job. I don’t tip the guy who constucted the freeway I use to drive on. I don’t tip the bag boy at the supermarket. Waiters need to get over themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/78 "2005-06-30T21:59:48Z")
**Clairobscur** , I agree with you to a point, but not all of the way. First, I think we can all agree that some elderly people lose their mental abilities (through Alzheimer’s disease or other age-related reasons) to a degree where they are unable to make financial and other decisions for themselves. At that point, a concerned relative (or if none is available, the Public Guardian) steps in, and can petition the court for an appointment as the elderly person’s guardian. Anyone disagree with that? The tricky part comes in short of that point. With a lot of people, the decline is gradual over many years. I have relatives in their late 60’s. They’re smart people, and probably are more capable than the average 35 year old. Still, although they are undoubtedly capable of making their own decisions, they aren’t quite as good as they were 10 years ago. Hell, my grandmother is 93, and no one’s taken control of her finances away. But with some people, the decline is greater, and a loss of judgment that increases their vulnerability to scams is part of that. “Scams” may too strong of a term here - while I certainly mean to include any type of malicious solicitation, whether for a questionable product, service, psychic/spiritualist or other “religion”, or charity - the vulnerability is also to otherwise legitimate solicitations that make no sense for the person involved. Who hasn’t heard of the elderly guy who gave all of his money away to some off-brand religious figure, leaving the contributor destitute? Or the old lady who has closets full of Home Shopping Network crap that she’ll never use? Or the doddering 80 year old guy whose new young girlfriend estranges him from his kids, and then his money? In a lot of families, an informal hand-over of control to the next generation takes place. Sometimes that takes some persuasion, or even family pressure beyond that. I can’t get too upset about this, having seen too many cases (some professionally) where an elderly person got badly taken advantage of, even if he hadn’t reached the stage of actual legal incompetence. That said, I have zero sympathy for children who get upset when their elderly parents spend money on (legitimate) things that they can afford. No one has a right to an inheritance. ---
**Author:** ![Ashes\_Ashes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ashes\_Ashes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashes_Ashes)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/79 "2005-06-30T22:03:50Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > As the link I provided earlier shows, by law, waitstaff is guaranteed the federal minimum wage. If the total amount of your salary and tips does not equal the federal minimum wage, your employer has to pay you the difference. Perhaps I need to be more precise with my wording. All in all, I’d rather see waitstaff receive _the same minimum wage as everyone else in the United States and_ have tipping be only for extraordinary service. I know their bosses are supposed to pick up the short fall. Some bosses are SOBs, however, and like to claim you’re pocketing your tips and then stiff you on the wage. What are you going to do? For a lot of people you’re already living hand to mouth, you can’t afford to quit or hire a lawyer. So you accept that some days it’s almost better to stay home than spend money on transportation and childcare. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/80 "2005-06-30T22:19:48Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Can we get back on topic here? > > If you really decide she should stop donating to this “charity”, here’s my two cents. Maybe the old lady, being Chinese, remembers all to vividly the Communist oppression and therefore she feels strongly about it and the Panama fund feeds on this. Just for the record, Grandma isn’t Chinese. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348.md?page=5)