# My husband's grandmother doesn't want to give a tip **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348 "2005-06-29T12:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/81 "2005-06-30T22:43:28Z")
> [@kittenblue](#): > > Just for the record, Grandma isn’t Chinese. Are you sure? ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/82 "2005-07-01T00:05:03Z")
My grandmother doesn’t tip much either. She doesn’t intend to be a poor tipper. She just doesn’t understand the amounts people tip these days. I’m not sure if it’s a matter of when she grew up or where, but, in her experience, tips just weren’t that large. Someone mentioned a $9 tip on a $91 meal–my grandmother would consider that a good tip. There’s really nothing we can do other than accept it and leave some extra whenever we eat out with her (and she only eats out with family members anyway). There was a point where she was sending out a lot more than she could afford to charities (for her, it was various churches). We haven’t stopped her giving, but we have followed the suggestion of a previous poster that we help her set up a “charity budget.” She has a certain amount she can give each month and she decides who gets what out of that amount. That may not work for everyone, but she seems to like it. And, for the record, I _hate_ US restaurant tipping! I know it is what it is, and I leave good tips. (I’m not about to make the waitperson suffer because the system stinks.) But I still hate it. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/83 "2005-07-01T00:24:32Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > I agree, but still leave a tip, because I do know that the servers need it for their income. I know several people who feel that tips should be abolished and server wages be raised. Well, if they did that, then the price of the food would go up between 15-20%, so in the end, you’re still paying the same amount of money. But, it would make peiople think they were not paying for the tip, so maybe it would be better. I don’t buy this. In Canada, servers are paid minimum wage or higher, with no expectation that tips cover any gaps (although 10-20% is routine for service) and restaurant meals are significantly cheaper than in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/84 "2005-07-01T02:57:39Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > WTF! So why should the customer be responsible for that? Because that’s the way it works over here. Don’t like it? Don’t go out to eat in the US. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/85 "2005-07-01T11:51:48Z")
> [@Random](#): > > Are you sure? Well, 99.9% sure, since I know **Lillith Fair’s** husband, and he’s not Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/86 "2005-07-01T12:16:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because that’s the way it works over here. Don’t like it? Don’t go out to eat in the US. It’s that simple. No, it’s not that simple. What is simple is that we are dealing with a matter of opinion, between the customer and the establishment. Is it clearly stated on the menu or anywhere else that a 20% surcharge is mandatory? Is there a law saying you have to tip? I’m really asking because I don’t know. If there is I have no objections, even thought I believe it is a stupid system. And who gets to decide what an appropriate tip is? What if I want to give a bonus for good service? Should I tip twice? The way I see it, and correct me if I’m wrong, the employers are taking advantage of the costumers (complimentary) tipping habit to pay less wages. Well, that’s really shitty and I’m not a charity so why should I be forced to make up for the difference? The waitstaff is entitled to a decent wage, according to the link provided earlier. It’s not my problem if their employer is screwing them over, even though I’m sympathetic with their situation. If I’m not legally bound to tip, I’ll do it as a compliment but not because I have to, and I don’t care how much insult that will get me. Anything else is extortion and they can go screw themselves as far as I am concerned. I’m not from the US but if I were I don’t see what difference that would make. Sorry for the highjack, seems like the thread is dying. If the OP would like this matter to be dropped I have no problems with it of course. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/87 "2005-07-01T18:44:07Z")
I can easily remember when in the US in the 70s and 80s that 10% was considered culturally standard…15% was for damn fine service, and 20% was throwing money around like a playboy. Why does everyone just shrug off “tipflation”? Judging from this board, that 15~20% is the standard is mind-boggling to me. And someone even suggested that for _bad_ service they would tip 10% to communicate their message of poor service. Unbelievable. Wow. It is customer browbeating by the service industry, plain and simple, resulting from the business owner getting away with paying a sub-par wage. That our government sanctions this is even more amazing. With few exceptions, this seems like a special case because someone happens to be carrying food. Other service industries don’t expect 20% (except for wedding event contractors, now _there_ is an extortionist leech infested industry.) I’ve done computer support contract work in the past, come to your home and fix your PC kind of stuff…this was pure service, plain and simple, certainly just as face-to-face customer relation as talking to patrons in a restaurant would be. I worked for a simple flat hourly rate and didn’t expect or accept tips. If I had _ever_ implied that a tip was expected then I would have lost a customer and had a complaint to my boss. Honestly, my instinct is to complain directly to a restaurant’s management if the staff implies they are expecting a tip. Not that I do complain though, being socially handcuffed by the custom here. Why is carrying food special? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/88 "2005-07-02T00:41:08Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Why is carrying food special? Why do you bother to eat out? Go home. Cook your own meal. Clean up after yourself. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to eat out. Let’s see, an hour or so to go to the store, buy ingredients, take 'em home. Another hour or so to unpack, put things away, start chopping those veggies, preparing the meat. Set the table real nice, like. Cook the meal. Serve it up so it looks real nice & appetizing. Get up and get yourself more water. Get up & get more wine. Heck, make yourself a gin & tonic. Ah, what a nice meal. Now get your butt off the chair & start cleaning up those plates. Wipe the table down. Clean the stove. Clean those dishes & pots & pans. Now, time to sit down and relax, maybe watch some TV… oops. Nope, dinner took 3-4 hours. Time for bed. Oh, well. I saved myself a 15-20% tip. Tell me again, how much time you just spend, and how much did it cost at the store to buy all those nice ingredients? Here is what apparently a lot of you would like to see happen: You want a nice meal. You want nice service. You want the server to be happy he or she only gets to work 20 hours/week at minimum wage. Go to McDonald’s. The kid, or the recent non-english speaking immigrant taking your order doesn’t give a flying fuck about you. If it weren’t for the cameras, they wouldn’t give a crap whether they washed their hands after using the toilet, they couldn’t care less whether they just picked their nose & now they’re preparing your salad. They certainly couldn’t care less whether you get your food now, or whenever they get around to it. At a sit-down restaurant, your server has a strong incentive to actually be nice to you, under the tipping system. At minimum wage, he doesn’t give a crap. Get your own damn water. What I look like, your slave? Oh, if I don’t want to give you good service, well the management should just fire me. Go ahead. It’s a minimum wage job. I can get another one where I don’t have to pretend to be nice to your stuck-up ass. I’ll get a nice cushy job at the quickie-mart. They’re hard up there. I don’t have to speak English. I barely have to know how to work the cash register, and even then, good luck getting the right change back. Better count it. Oh, and don’t complain to me that you’ve been standing in line for five minutes ‘cause I’ve been chatting on the cell phone with my drug dealer. Don’t like it? Go to Fresh Fields. I’m gettin’ minimum wage. What, you still demand excellent, friendly service? OK. Come to my restaurant. I pay my employees the standard wage they need to make in order to keep a roof over their heads, pay for school _and_ provide you with honest-to-goodness-genuine good service. That burger now cost’s $30. Suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![poison\_heart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b3f665/32.png) [@poison\_heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poison_heart)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/89 "2005-07-02T01:22:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do you bother to eat out? Go home. Cook your own meal. Clean up after yourself. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to eat out. You could make that argument to justify tipping in almost any job. Why do you bother to go to the grocery store? Go home. Grow your own food. Plant vegetables. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to buy groceries. Why do you bother to buy clothes? Go home. Make your own clothes. Learn to sew. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to buy clothes. Why do you bother to have your plumbing fixed? Go home. Learn to fix it yourself. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to hire a professional plumber. And yet, we don’t leave 20% tips for any of these jobs. Or for any other job except restaurant servers. What about that job makes it unique among all existant occupations? > [@](#): > > That burger now cost’s $30. Suck it up. Do burgers cost $30 in countries in which tipping is not standard? No, mandatory tipping at restaurants is just a weird thing that has become so common we take it for granted. It is a bizarre system, but it is the one we have, so I always tip 15-20%. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/90 "2005-07-02T01:55:37Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > I also think that basing the expectation for tips around a percentage of the bill is pretty stupid. The percentages seem to rise arbitrarily (used to be 12%, then 15%, now people are often saying 20% or more. I wonder when we will hit 50%). Also, it’s biased towards people who work in upscale restaurants with higher priced meals, who will make more in tips for doing the same work for the same amount of time than the waiter at your typical everyday average-meal-price restaurant. If it’s going to be an expectation, then the “expectation” should just be a general fixed range, not a percentage. (Obviously for the average time to have a meal – the party that hangs out for 4 hours, taking up the table sipping coffee, always throws a wrench into things). I’ve been saying this for years. Waitresses at low-scale diners work just as hard (usually harder–you don’t have to deal with screaming kids or high people at an expensive steakhouse) as servers in upscale restaurants. Tipping by percentage is completely classist. Although, I guess that if you can afford to eat at a $50/plate restaurant, you can also afford more in tips than the average Denny’s customer. But still, such a system rewards people who happen to live in more upscale areas that can support nice restaurants and are physically attractive, and punish ordinary hardworking people who can’t say all the right things and be all classy but are still good servers. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/91 "2005-07-02T03:10:26Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > I can easily remember when in the US in the 70s and 80s that 10% was considered culturally standard…15% was for damn fine service, and 20% was throwing money around like a playboy. Why does everyone just shrug off “tipflation”? > > Judging from this board, that 15~20% is the standard is mind-boggling to me. And someone even suggested that for _bad_ service they would tip 10% to communicate their message of poor service. Unbelievable. > > Wow. It is customer browbeating by the service industry, plain and simple, resulting from the business owner getting away with paying a sub-par wage. That our government sanctions this is even more amazing. Well, i agree with the part about the business owner getting the best of both worlds. But there is a good economic reason for the “tipflation” that you are discussing here. The fact is that in the period that you are talking about, inflation has taken a much lighter toll on the cost of food, and on the cost of eating out, than it has on many other things that we have to spend our money on. Former doper **manhattan** , whose job involves keeping track of changes in the US economy and their effects on business, explained it in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=296105): > [@manhattan](#): > > But over the last several years, food inflation has been less than inflation generally and the food-away-from-home index has been growing more slowly still – the result of enormous competition in the industry. So some percentage creep on the tip has been necessary to keep real server wages constant. We’re starting to see some indications that the restaurant cost index is now moving up more quickly than general inflation, primarlily as some of the quick serve and casual-dining chains finally give in and try to pass through higher protein costs. It’ll be interesting to see if the trend continues and what, if anything, will be the public’s reaction as regards a “standard” tip. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/92 "2005-07-02T03:12:40Z")
> [@poison heart](#): > > Do burgers cost $30 in countries in which tipping is not standard? I don’t know what it really costs in other countries but I do know in countries where there is no tipping, the service is usually, stoic. As an American, I prefer being shown a more or less good time while dining out, and I prefer to pay my server for that personal service. I’ve noticed in Europe, people tend to sit there looking bored, eating their food. Don’t bother the server. Just eat and shut up. Product ordered. Product delivered. I prefer the American way. I like eating out. I like pleasantly interacting with the server. He is serving me something I’m going to enjoy eating. Dining out shouldn’t be like going to the post office. If that’s what you want, eat at the food court at Costco. > [@](#): > > No, mandatory tipping at restaurants is just a weird thing that has become so common we take it for granted. But it’s not mandatory. That’s the thing. Maybe it should be mandatory, but I’m not sure we’d like how the industry adapted. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/93 "2005-07-02T03:34:28Z")
help me out here with one thing. someone said don’t stiff the waitstaff if something out of their control impacts the total service experience you get. So, the chef screws up my order or I notice the dirty glass after drinking half a coke or something, I’m supposed to tip the 20% and further ruin my dining experience by trying to get the manager to give a discount. IMHO the tip should also factor in the total experience I get from the ease of parking to efficient seating to quality of food, how I like the service, etc. Okay, let’s not blame the wait staff but change the dang minimum wage law. Having grown up in a tipping environment then lived in a non-tipping environment, I much prefer the non-tipping. disclaimer: I worked as a dishwasher for a couple years in High School and tips were only shared with the bus boys. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/94 "2005-07-02T03:40:25Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > But it’s not mandatory. That’s the thing. Maybe it should be mandatory, but I’m not sure we’d like how the industry adapted. Well, then it’s like everywhere else in the world. Do you really think there is only good service in the USA? That’s completely disingenuous. Once when I went to eat out in the US with my father, we went to this place in Manhattan. Got a regular service, no complains and in the end my father tipped 10%. The guy comes back with the bill and says “in this establishment it is customary to tip 15%” and just stands there. My father put in 15% but I would have just put 0% and told the guy to get fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Amaranta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Amaranta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amaranta)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/95 "2005-07-02T03:41:02Z")
Sorry to hijack the topic further, but I’ve been serving for a few years now - started in grade 11 or so at a pub style restaurant, moved on to a fine dining restaurant, and now work in a bar/lounge type place. I’ll tiptoe through all the comments about servers and wages and whatnot, and just say: if I expected to be tipped 20%, 15%, or even 10% by all customers, I would have left the industry a long time ago. Some people don’t tip because you stopped by their table too often, sometimes they don’t tip because you didn’t stop there often enough. Sometimes the food was cooked improperly so they don’t tip at all - expecting me, who did not have anything to do with food prep, to be able to look at their steak as I’m carrying it out and be able to tell whether it’s medium or medium well. Sometimes you’re too friendly. Sometimes not friendly enough. Whatever, I can’t control that. When elderly clients came in to the restaurant, I’d just assume they’d tip slightly less. As has been said, tip expectations have risen over the decades and not everyone knows this - sometimes elderly customers thought 5% was an amazingly high tip. I learned to expect it, treat the customers just as well as anyone else, and be pleasantly suprised if I got a higher tip. Your server might have been this way, or not. Who knows? Where I work now, wearing a low cut shirt and giggling pretty much guarantees you a 20% tip. I refuse to play into this, dress in my own style and don’t act like an airhead, and am happy walking with 15%. The extra few bucks isn’t worthing selling out for, in my mind. I make a decent wage, nothing spectacular, and considering how much work I do, it’s quite cushy. It’s getting me through university, so I can’t complain. Hope that adds a different p.o.v. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/96 "2005-07-02T04:22:45Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Well, then it’s like everywhere else in the world. Do you really think there is only good service in the USA? That’s completely disingenuous. You honestly don’t think things in the US are, or should be like everywhere in the world do you? Why aren’t our children working in factories making tennis shoes? Huh? Huh? Huh? I never said service is only good in the USA. Expectations of service in restaurants in the USA & everywhere else in the world vary widely, in part, based on our tradition of tipping, although not entirely. In Russia, I might expect a hire-girl to join me for my meal. That’s not actually included in the price of my meal. I don’t feel obligated to actually hire her. If I decide to let her sit at my table and pleasantly entertain me, should I stiff her because there’s no law saying I should pay? Travel much? Different countries, different customs, different laws, different expectations. When I travel around the world, I try not to be an asshole. In Europe you find yourself dining at a busy restaurant and you happen to be dining at a table-for-four by yourself or one other, it’s entirely likely another couple may be seated with you. At your table. You gonna bitch and refuse to pay part of your bill, because expectations are different in your country? I kinda hope you don’t travel much. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/97 "2005-07-02T04:59:52Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You honestly don’t think things in the US are, or should be like everywhere in the world do you? Why aren’t our children working in factories making tennis shoes? Huh? Huh? Huh? In case you are not being obtuse on purpose, obviously I was talking about the custom of tipping. Sorry if I wasn’t clear about that. And I’ll amend my comment to Western Europe. > [@](#): > > I never said service is only good in the USA. Expectations of service in restaurants in the USA & everywhere else in the world vary widely, in part, based on our tradition of tipping, although not entirely. In Russia, I might expect a hire-girl to join me for my meal. That’s not actually included in the price of my meal. I don’t feel obligated to actually hire her. If I decide to let her sit at my table and pleasantly entertain me, should I stiff her because there’s no law saying I should pay? There you go using that word again, stiffing. If you hire her you pay her - the concept is simple. The business hires the waitstaff - not the costumer. You set up a huge strawman. A tip is a bonus, a way of saying “thank you for serving me (well)” and no way are you entitled to it. I’m not averse at all to tipping but it’s the entitlement that irks me. > [@](#): > > Travel much? Different countries, different customs, different laws, different expectations. When I travel around the world, I try not to be an asshole. Yeah, yeah. If I lived in the US I’d think the exact same thing because it is about the principle. Your custom is the same to mine, you just said so, tipping is not mandatory. Think what you like of me. When some guy is standing there with that attitude “pay up 15% or else…” I tend to get pissed. > [@](#): > > In Europe you find yourself dining at a busy restaurant and you happen to be dining at a table-for-four by yourself or one other, it’s entirely likely another couple may be seated with you. At your table. You gonna bitch and refuse to pay part of your bill, because expectations are different in your country? Come on, don’t be ridiculous. And yes, since you mentioned, if the waitstaff doesn’t ask for permission first I will bitch about it. Not because of the expectations in my country though. > [@](#): > > I kinda hope you don’t travel much. OK. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/98 "2005-07-03T02:44:55Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Well, then it’s like everywhere else in the world. Do you really think there is only good service in the USA? That’s completely disingenuous. > > Once when I went to eat out in the US with my father, we went to this place in Manhattan. Got a regular service, no complains and in the end my father tipped 10%. The guy comes back with the bill and says “in this establishment it is customary to tip 15%” and just stands there. My father put in 15% but I would have just put 0% and told the guy to get fucked. Because the government taxes them on their tips-what they’re SUPPOSED to get. If you don’t like it, then don’t eat out in the US. Seriously. And if you do, don’t keep going back to the same place-they remember the non-tippers and the shitty tippers and your service will DEFINITELY reflect that. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/99 "2005-07-03T07:21:10Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Is it clearly stated on the menu or anywhere else that a 20% surcharge is mandatory? Is there a law saying you have to tip? I’ve often seen a statement on the menu to the effect of “a 15% gratuity will be added to the bill for any party of 6 or more customers” (percentage and minimum party size vary). This policy reflects the fact that diners may receive one check for the whole table, then have each person/couple/family “kick in” his/her/its share. It’s easy to forget (or deliberately fail) to add the tip amount when contributing your share. Even if eveyone remembers the gratuity custom, there are often arguments about whether each person should pay for what he/she ate, or if it would be fairer for each of – say, eight friends – to contribute 12.5% of the cost. And the kid who ordered off a hot dog off the children’s menu but got twelve free refills of Pepsi may have demanded much more of the waitress than did the guy who splurged on lobster but nursed one beer for the entire evening. Adding the tip as a _de facto_ service charge ensures that the servers will eventually be compensated fairly for their efforts. As you might expect, there’s no policy forbidding a tip above the minimum in such situations. However, there’s also the unwritten rule that if service is poor, a member of the party can speak to the manager and – if his/her complaints are deemed legitimate – have the mandatory gratuity waived, or at least reduced. ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348/100 "2005-07-03T18:51:21Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > I can’t see how someones income should be dependent on tips. Tips should be a bonus on top of your income. Not expected but gratefully recieved for very good service. > It seems that employers are asking the public to pay what they owe their employees. > . As a former waitress, I can tell you that in some states waitresses don’t even make minimum wage! It is _assumed_ by the government that they will make enough in tips to compensate for the low wages, and therefore minimum wage laws don’t apply. In the late 1990’s, I made $3.xx an hour in MA and I had friends in NY who made $1.90/hr. Minimum wage was $5.15. Full-time after taxes and deductions I made less than$65/week. So here tips really _are_ the waitstaff’s salary in many cases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-husbands-grandmother-doesnt-want-to-give-a-tip/310348.md?page=6)