My idea for cutting the military budget: Quit paying for dependents.

Hell no it does not. Can you point out where on this chart it goes by number of dependents? On this chart?

mrAru gets a whopping $1000, minus tax. And we get to now PAY for tricare, which previously we did not have to pay, retirees got the medical for free. At least the cost of my meds, which I get ‘free’ at the base dispensary end up costing the government about $600 a month. [civilian cost runs about $200 at CVS] Though I do enjoy shopping at the commissary - what would normally be taxes in a civilian store goes to the MWR committee.

May I point out that the beancounters have forced the base to close the base library, auto hobby shop, the wood hobby shop, the pottery hobby shop, the base internet cafe, the enlisted club, the chiefs club and the officers club. Now there is nothing to do for unmarried enlisteds to do except go out drinking at the strip clubs near base? And in the 20 years I saw the hospital go from a class 2 trauma center and 120 bed hospital with 4 surgical suites open 24 hours a day to a walk in doc in a box. Way to go fuckwads.

[URL=“http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php?v=250&username=poetryloverspage”]
Tommy

I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, 'ow’s yer soul?”
But it’s “Thin red line of 'eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it’s “Thin red line of 'eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
But it’s “Saviour of 'is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool – you bet that Tommy sees!

It costs something to school the kids on base, does it not? Then yeah, I want to add that to the cost of the military.

That was an choice of two options, not a yes/no.

And can I just point out one more time that I’m putting for a hypothetical, that wouldn’t apply to anyone currently serving when it took effect, and woudn’t cut benefits to any members who currently have dependents? It seems as though what I propose is being taken to an extreme.

I don’t know about the actual school buildings or the upkeep, but the school is part of the local school district, and is funded by the property taxes of the peoples and businesses adjacent to the military installation.

The US government does provide a small percentage of school district funding, thereby acknowledging that the parents of the children schooled on base/on post are NOT paying into the local property tax pool.

OVERSEAS, the kids are educated on the government dime. And the high schools are few and far between, so the high school kids are boarded.
~VOW

EXACTLY!

Cut the pay and benefits to the bone. You will still attract people to the job…maybe they aren’t quite as good but what’s the diff? Kids still get a great education and our military will still kick ass. It’s a win win…well except for those greedy, resource hungry/using soldiers and teachers but if you want to make a living you should choose something better, like investment banking.

Additionally, the on-base schools are generally for the kids that actually live on the base, and they walk to school. Kids who live off base generally go to the nearest public school, and do likewise. Not all bases have schools, and mine went to both versions. As you mentioned, the gov’t does PILOT (payment in lieu of taxes) stipends to local school districts, since most military members pay state taxes in their home states, unless exempted from same by those states.

This “Why do you hate America” like of attack is beneath even you.

I think the military is a fine calling, although that does not entail limitless compensation. Soldiers should be paid the amount needed to make our supply of soldiers match our genuine demand for them. Just the same for teachers or for judges.

I challenge you to defend your thesis that I have any animosity for the military. You will fail in that task because you’re a little bitch who uses personal attacks in place of substantiated arguments.

Let’s skip the glurge and cut to the chase:

True or false: BAH is higher for servicemembers with dependents than without, given the same paygrade, years of service, and locality.

True or false: BAH is paid in cash, not rental vouchers or the like.

True or false: The amount of BAH does not depend on a servicemember’s actual rent or mortgage amount.

Your responses please (each is answerable by one-word answers, by the way, so kindly confine them to that format) …

#1 FALSE: If a servicemember is approved for housing other than military, all pay grades get the same amount. MARRIED servicemembers just about automatically get that approval, but not always.

#2 FALSE: No sort of payment is in cash any more. If a servicemember lives in quarters, government-leased housing, or some other contracted arrangement by the government, no money changes hands at any time. The BAQ simply does not show up on the pay statement

#3 FALSE: Recruiters can receive their housing through a contracted arrangement with the property owner. There is a ceiling on what can be paid, but it DOES depend on the rent.
~VOW

As you concede in #1, you have designated each of these false on the basis of uncommon exceptions. This is unfortunate because this mode of argumentation can be misleading.

Some more questions.

How frequently do any of these exceptions apply? As you concede in the #1, it is exceedingly uncommon for marriage servicemembers to be to denied approval to live off base. Similarly, the great majority of service members live off base in the United States live in privately sourced housing, as government maintained housing is seen as distinctly undesirable. as to the third, I acknowledge I do not know the intricacies of recruiters, on the other hand, most servicemembers are not recruiters.

Thus, in general, most married service members live off base, in privately source housing, and receive a higher BAH than their unmarried counterparts.

No, married service members do NOT receive a higher BAQ than their unmarried counterparts. Should any UNmarried service member receive permission to live off base, he or she would receive exactly the same BAQ as any member of the same rank.
~VOW

You’ve been out too long. It is BAH now and it is higher for those with dependents.

Basic Allowance for Housing - Wikipedia

I stated earlier that my husband retired in 1988. That doesn’t make my points less valid.

MANY things have changed since then. Differences in housing pay, “family separation allowance,” and the reinstatement of the GI Bill were probably put in place AFTER 9-11-2001, as recruitment incentives and compensation for military personnel in combat.

War is Hell, in case you haven’t heard. The pay, the benefits, even the SGLI is damned little for those killed and maimed while wearing the flag of the United States.
~VOW

Cite? Something that shows “most” (50% or more) turn down base housing? Because that was not my experience.

Maybe for officers, but there was a strong preference among the enlisted to stay in base housing, because BAH always seemed to fall short of being able to pay for a decent apartment on the outside. You either needed roommates, or you needed officer BAH.

Here is something from Great Lakes Naval Station (http://www.cnic.navy.mil/GreatLakes/FleetAndFamilyReadiness/HousingAndLodging/HousingReferralServices/index.htm)

It’s also not supes important to my point because (http://www.cnic.navy.mil/CNIC_HQ_Site/WhatWeDo/FleetandFamilyReadiness/Housing/PrivatizedPPVHousingProgram/index.htm)

(Emphasis added)

TL;DR — Kimmy_Gibbler wins again!

No, you don’t win, since you haven’t produced any numbers. And I *lived *in privated housing. I was a PPV resident, and I did, in fact, receive my housing allowance. At the same time my housing allowance was turned on, an allotment was also created to deduct the exact amount of my housing allowance to pay “rent” to the property manager.

How much was rent? The exact amount of my BAH. Regardless of what my BAH was, or what type of unit I lived in.

(And all DoD privatized housing works the same way.)

eta: Here, let me provide a cite:

Waitasec…if your BAH was the exact amount of your rent and utilities, then how is it that your BAH failed to pay for a decent apartment on the outside?

Yeah, but my chief point, that BAH for unmarried servicemembers who are otherwise in identical circumstances is less than that for those with dependents is still true.

This whole tangent about government-sourced housing was raised in attempt to show that many/most servicemembers don’t get a BAH, and therefore, this wasn’t a big deal. But that’s not true. Most do, and married ones get more, just because they’re married. So the tangent may be dispensed with.

You still haven’t proven that “most do,” and saying that everyone in privatized military housing get “BAH” is meaningless given how BAH works in that situation. If you get more, your rent goes up by that exact amount, so who cares.

PPV housing isn’t “the outside,” it’s the same government quarters that you were used to, except they privatized it and introduced a whole slew of new acronyms. Same shit, different wrapper. It’s irrelevant to this thread; just a failed diversionary tactic.

My “apartment” was, in fact, the same government quarters I had already been living in for a year. They marched us all down to some auditorium somewhere and made us all sign lease agreements en masse. It was ridiculous. Then I started paying “rent.”