# My inconsiderate asshat of an ex-wife...FFS! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700 "2016-05-25T21:40:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/61 "2016-05-27T00:21:09Z")
Okay then. Consider yourself removed from the reference. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/62 "2016-05-27T01:50:30Z")
First, of course see if the grandparents are flexible about the dates. But if they’re not, I’m going to suggest a thought experiment- take your ex-wife and her parent’s out of it. I’m serious. Imagine that rather than your ex-wife’s parents planning a trip for the same week as yours, it was something else that conflicted. Maybe some team/activity he’s involved in going to a competition that same week. Or his girlfriend’s Sweet Sixteen. What would you do then? Would you let him choose? And don’t think this is an issue specific to divorce- my last family vacation happened by the time my kids were 14 and 15 and their father and I are still married. Same for most of our friends. By that time they have their own lives and the only way I could have gotten them to happily go on vacation with us would have been to plan a trip to Europe. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/63 "2016-05-27T02:35:22Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > First, of course see if the grandparents are flexible about the dates. But if they’re not, I’m going to suggest a thought experiment- take your ex-wife and her parent’s out of it. I’m serious. Imagine that rather than your ex-wife’s parents planning a trip for the same week as yours, it was something else that conflicted. Maybe some team/activity he’s involved in going to a competition that same week. Or his girlfriend’s Sweet Sixteen. What would you do then? Would you let him choose? Definitely not. But that seems to me like a much easier call than in the actual real-life situation, which I’m sensing is not what you intended. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/64 "2016-05-27T04:23:49Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Definitely not. But that seems to me like a much easier call than in the actual real-life situation, which I’m sensing is not what you intended. Actually, all I intended was for you to separate your justified annoyance with your ex-wife from the situation. If you would find it an easier call to not give him the choice if she/they weren’t involved, then you’re not letting your annoyance drive your decision. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/65 "2016-05-27T04:27:00Z")
Ok, cool. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/66 "2016-05-30T21:26:04Z")
I still wanna know what’s happening. Sumbody musta said sumthin’ to sumbody! ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/67 "2016-05-31T03:09:04Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The first few responses to the OP were rather dispiriting. Since then, a bunch of come in that I like much better. I started to reply to them, but it would have been a bunch of “yes, I agree, thank you” comments (we really need a “like” or “upvote” button!). So let me just say that I really appreciate those comments (as does my lurking wife). Thank you all. > > It is far from a one-off, which is why we told her so far ahead of time, and repeatedly reminded her. > > On the first question, a definite yes. On the second, I don’t know but I kind of doubt it. > > Ugh, how awful. :mad: About a year ago, my daughter (then 12) was acting kind of weird, withdrawn, etc. I kept trying to get her to tell me what was wrong. Finally she burst into tears and told me her mother had told her that I had said I didn’t love her (my daughter). This was of course enraging: not only did I never say it, never even thought it (I love my daughter, and all my children, fiercely), it’s hard for me to understand why my ex would say such a thing even if she somehow did think I said it! (I am assiduous about not shit-talking their mom to them, which mostly means just not talking about her at all, or sometimes telling stories from when we were first together.) My ex has said my daughter must have misunderstood something, but WTF would that be?!? I know she runs me down to them (I was the one who ended the marriage, and it seems clear to me that she has never forgiven me even if she tries to talk now as though she is glad we are divorced). > > Not true. We live in a rural Missouri town. A college town, admittedly, but one most students complain about and try to “escape” every weekend they can–a town that’s scores of miles from an interstate, even, or a Target (we do have Walmart of course). He is a Francophile like I am, and has been looking forward to a chance to practice speaking, and eat some _pain au chocolat_. Additionally, the [Winnipeg Folk Festival](http://www.winnipegfolkfestival.ca/) will be going on while we are there, and that is his style of music (he plays acoustic guitar and loves bands like Neutral Milk Hotel and Iron & Wine). > > He has recently become a huge fan of both the movie and TV series _Fargo_, and we will be visiting my wife’s extended relatives in that city. Not that they have much in common with the show or movie, but he still is (or at least was) excited to go there and do silly things like get photographed in front of a “welcome to Fargo” sign. > > He also loves both his paternal grandma (whom he does not see very often, much less often than his maternal grandparents) and his “step-grandparents”, whom he does not refer to or relate to as “step” as they have been there in a loving role for the past decade. And they live in a place that’s a [regional Mecca for outdoors enthusiasts.](http://www.centrallakestrail.com/) > > But yes, of course NYC is much more exciting. Perhaps you and \*\*manson \*\*live there, and enjoy sneering at “flyover country”? You are \*\*so \*\*cool. Here, have a cookie (artisinal, organic, and gluten free, of course). :rolleyes: Long-time listener; first-time poster. OK, not really, just been gone a while, but this headline caught my attention, so … I have no idea what these people in here are on about. You don’t let 16-year-olds make family vacation decisions. That’s just idiotic. When I was 16, I went where my parents planned, period. I didn’t even get to stay home if I didn’t want to go, I just went. That’s what you do when you’re barely old enough to drive, can’t vote and can’t drink, and don’t pay the mortgage. That’s your week. You arranged it well in advance. Don’t talk to your kid about it, talk to your ex. Tell her if she has a problem with it, to take you to court and a judge can decide. This is WAY above the pay grade of a16-year-old child and putting him in the middle of deciding will only fill him with guilt either way. Plus, this is a teaching moment about commitments and obligations and having to decline exciting offers when you’ve already got something else planned. It’s going to happen to him often in his life and he’d better not be the kind of little shit who dumps on one friend to do something “better” with another friend or he’ll end up without many friends. Your week; your call. Period. Let the other grandparents reschedule. JMNSHO. And have fun on your trip; it sounds like a blast for a kid who loves Fargo and French. I’d’ve been thrilled for a trip like that at 16 since I’d been studying French for four years at that point ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/68 "2016-05-31T04:04:49Z")
Thank you, **Shayna!** Love your advice. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/69 "2016-05-31T04:42:43Z")
You’re welcome. Use this opportunity to teach your child he can’t beg off previous obligations just because something better came along. That’s the way adults behave. Others are right that he’s close to being able to go out on his own, but not that he has to start making his own decisions like this, but to give him the tools he’ll need to survive out there and build his character. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/70 "2016-05-31T05:42:55Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Long-time listener; first-time poster. OK, not really, just been gone a while, but this headline caught my attention, so … > > I have no idea what these people in here are on about. You don’t let 16-year-olds make family vacation decisions. That’s just idiotic. When I was 16, I went where my parents planned, period. I didn’t even get to stay home if I didn’t want to go, I just went. That’s what you do when you’re barely old enough to drive, can’t vote and can’t drink, and don’t pay the mortgage. > > That’s your week. You arranged it well in advance. Don’t talk to your kid about it, talk to your ex. Tell her if she has a problem with it, to take you to court and a judge can decide. > > This is WAY above the pay grade of a16-year-old child and putting him in the middle of deciding will only fill him with guilt either way. > > Plus, this is a teaching moment about commitments and obligations and having to decline exciting offers when you’ve already got something else planned. It’s going to happen to him often in his life and he’d better not be the kind of little shit who dumps on one friend to do something “better” with another friend or he’ll end up without many friends. > > Your week; your call. Period. Let the other grandparents reschedule. > > JMNSHO. > > And have fun on your trip; it sounds like a blast for a kid who loves Fargo and French. I’d’ve been thrilled for a trip like that at 16 since I’d been studying French for four years at that point Good grief. Why so serious? Not every bit of minutiae has to be a life lesson. And the lesson you speak of doesn’t have to be taught in the manner you suggest. I was taught this lesson by my parents NOT letting me skip out of, Boy Scouts, basket ball practice, and my after school job. Oh, how many times did I want to skip out on all these things at one time or another to go do something else. But nope, my parents insisted I honor my obligations. And this is the same way I taught my son this lesson. But a smart and reasonable person should also realize, there are exceptions to every rule. And I think the OP’s post qualifies as one. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/71 "2016-05-31T06:44:23Z")
So…because their family has more money than we do, and extended family in more interesting and exciting locations than ours, we should just get Bigfooted on the one out-of-state family vacation we are able to take this year? I don’t think that is fair, and I certainly don’t see how it is a good lesson to impart or an exception to anything. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/72 "2016-05-31T07:12:42Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So…because their family has more money than we do, and extended family in more interesting and exciting locations than ours, we should just get Bigfooted on the one out-of-state family vacation we are able to take this year? I don’t think that is fair, and I certainly don’t see how it is a good lesson to impart or an exception to anything. Okay, if lessons are so important to you. How about you show your son how to be the bigger man? How about you respect his wishes and stop thinking about your own? How about you try to be happy for your son? Not all children are fortunate enough to have the opportunities your child has. It would be a real shame if he missed out of those opportunities because of sour grapes on your part. Look, I get it. Your ex is the worst! I won’t disagree with you on that. But what’s done is done. Just suck it up and let the kid have his freedom of choice. If I were you, I’d be thinking about my long game rather than my short one. How will your son look upon this incident 15 years from now? “Gee dad, sure am grateful for that life lesson you taught me. Had it not been for that, I would know NOTHING of the importance of keeping one’s obligations.” OR, fifteen years from now: “Hey Dad, I was cleaning out my closet. Stumbled across these pictures of when I was in NY. What a lovely time! Thanks for letting me go.” One of those scenarios is more likely than the other. I’ll let you decide. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/73 "2016-05-31T08:03:08Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Okay, if lessons are so important to you. How about you show your son how to be the bigger man? How about you respect his wishes and stop thinking about your own? How about you try to be happy for your son? Not all children are fortunate enough to have the opportunities your child has. > > It would be a real shame if he missed out of those opportunities because of sour grapes on your part. > > Look, I get it. Your ex is the worst! I won’t disagree with you on that. But what’s done is done. Just suck it up and let the kid have his freedom of choice. > > If I were you, I’d be thinking about my long game rather than my short one. > > How will your son look upon this incident 15 years from now? “Gee dad, sure am grateful for that life lesson you taught me. Had it not been for that, I would know NOTHING of the importance of keeping one’s obligations.” > > OR, fifteen years from now: “Hey Dad, I was cleaning out my closet. Stumbled across these pictures of when I was in NY. What a lovely time! Thanks for letting me go.” > > One of those scenarios is more likely than the other. I’ll let you decide. Why not “hey dad, I was cleaning out my closet. Stumbled across these pictures of when we were in Fargo. It was way more fun than the week I spent in NY!” He has the entire summer _except_ that one week to go to NY. OP’s time is unfortunately scarce and not fungible and he gave ample notice to allow his children to go on his vacation AND whatever his ex planned for any of the other 11 weeks. She took the A and B option off the table and replaced it with an A or B decision. It’s like when my daughter is oh so excited about some concert on my birthday, or a camping trip overlapping father’s day. I either put my foot down and deal with a more pissed off than usual teenager raining on our festivities or I capitulate and find out the next weekend that the conflicting event “fell through” and she sat in her room while we had an empty seat at the table. The first time it’s an unfortunate coincidence. The 10th, 20th, 100th time it’s clearly intentional. You can’t just cave to the manipulation “for the kids!” because it hurts them too. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/74 "2016-05-31T10:18:52Z")
Which reminds me: I don’t think I’ve had my older kids on my birthday (or within a week in either direction) once in the past decade. They are always out in Seattle. I have just completely given up on that, and we celebrate weeks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/75 "2016-05-31T11:18:19Z")
You are wastefully shadowboxing until you get off your butt and talk to the other adults involved in this situation. I get your desire to be righteously indignant at everyone who isn’t you, but while you’re doing that the calendar is ticking ever closer to the point where 1) the grandparents can’t reschedule, 2) your son is fully invested in the NY trip, and 3) you’re going to end up with a stroke from the anger you’re not processing appropriately. The hardest part about communication is communicating. How about you give it a go anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/76 "2016-05-31T11:32:00Z")
You’re borrowing trouble. Just call the grandparents directly, and figure out what the deal is. You’re letting your ex-wife be gatekeeper, and that is giving her way too much power and headspace. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/77 "2016-05-31T12:33:32Z")
The message has been delivered that we are definitely sticking to our plans (that was never in question–I didn’t even expect anyone to raise it as a possibility to change them) and that my ex-in-laws need to figure out a different time to go, or not take him at all. I was in my OP simply venting my anger about the fact that my ex-wife raised this possibility with him despite it conflicting with our plans, thus potentially casting a pall over our trip. As I say, I was \*never \*wondering “hmm, should I just let him go with them instead?” If anyone got the impression that I was considering that, asking advice as to whether I should do that, etc., I’m sorry–but rereading the OP, it still doesn’t convey anything like that as far as I can see. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/78 "2016-05-31T12:58:36Z")
“Waaaah, peple didn’t respond the way I wanted them to!” ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/79 "2016-05-31T13:06:20Z")
> [@Azeotrope](#): > > “Waaaah, peple didn’t respond the way I wanted them to!” Pfffft. :rolleyes: I could quote all the people that wrote responses I liked very much, but _it would take too much time to gather all the quotes,_ just from a two page thread! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700/80 "2016-05-31T14:06:11Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Stop projecting. The OP’s entirely reasonable to want to stick to a pre-arranged plan for a whole family trip. Even if it causes resentment in his son. He has to show the ex he is not going to take any shit, dammit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-inconsiderate-asshat-of-an-ex-wife-ffs/755700.md?page=5)