My point was around 2000 I realized the reality of it. I made it 100% official in 2008. It takes some people longer. Give him time, he appears to be on the path of Independent with this OP.
“to stop me from killing people, which is MY RIGHT.”
As much as the left loves them some mask mandates, you realize, don’t you, that they really didn’t do anything other than virtue signal. Unless you want to argue about the math.
Infection rates dropped considerably when mask mandates were in place, and rose again when mask mandates were dropped. Seems to me that’s a strong indication the math is in favor of masking.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01394-0
And also:
The Figure shows cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in mask and no mask counties in Kansas between March and December 18, 2020. At the time of the mask mandate, COVID-19 case rates in mask counties were 3 times higher than in no mask counties (15 cases per 100 000 population vs 5 cases per 100 000 population). These trends reversed, and by October 26 cases were 2.1 times higher in no mask counties (44 cases per 100 000 population vs 21 cases per 100 000 population). We see similar results for hospitalizations, with the rates in no mask counties being 1.4 times those in mask counties starting in mid-October (October 16: 2.6 hospitalizations per 100 000 population vs 1.8 hospitalizations per 100 000 population). Deaths were 1.8 times higher in no mask counties by November 1 (0.56 deaths per 100 000 population vs 0.32 deaths per 100 000 population).
Been there, done that…and so have you, so why bother starting the argument all over again as if we haven’t?
Moderating:
First post back and already hijacking a thread and being abrasive. You were told to acquaint yourself with the rules. You didn’t.
You’re done on this forum.
I haven’t read all of the thread, but you can support a Democrat as a Republican-there’s precedent, and if things are bad enough you really should.9 Pa. Republicans break with party, endorse Democrat Shapiro for governor
I understand that’s not always an option in every state, of course.
These folks shouldn’t get any awards, but they’re brave for the trouble they’re inviting.
Correct, though here in CT one gets a restricted polling notice if one is registered to a party that has something coming up [it can literally be as minor as all 1100 Repubs here in my home town of 2500 or so humans and 10 000 cows get together a polling to pick which repub to run for the town selectman at the upcoming election [or for any seat open in town - or equally likely county or state polling as well]
But Hamlet, how does she deal with the ‘job creators’ not paying taxes? The dang 1 percenters are certainly not paying their fair share of the financial outflow [roughly 25 to 30 percent of any paycheck I made in my past went out of my pocket and into the government’s pocket local state and federal taxes, FICA, my cut of the health insurance, anything else the government could think of.] Now, what is 25 percent of Musk’s income, Trump’s real income, WalMart owning family, hobby lobby owners. Hells bells, if the damned 1 percenters would just pay their fair share without all the loopholes they can “afford” to pay people to find so they end up paying a few hundred dollars [I believe Trump paid a whopping $750 or something last time]
Last time we paid taxes, it was $14000 property taxes, something on the order of $800 for vehicle taxes to the town, whatever registration is [offhand, hundred and change per vehicle I think] and something around $3000 in income taxes between state and federal. And I can damned well guarantee we don’t own anywhere near what they all own, nor do we make anywhere near that kind of income. Why do we pay so much more in taxes.
I haven’t read it all either, but I read the OP carefully, and the author would obviously also have voted Shapiro. (I’m saying “the author” because it has been a year, and views can have changed by now.)
The OP doesn’t give any hint I can see of believing in even a tiny bit of GOP ideology. Close all charter schools? That sounds far left to moderate me. This isn’t a complaint. I’m fine with the parties becoming, once again, big tent. I even think it would be healthy. And I think there still are liberal Republicans in some places (Massachusetts).
Personally, I switched from the GOP to the Democrats in early 2016 because it seemed that there was no place left in the GOP for a moderate like myself. But I don’t think that’s an objective fact. There is a place for a liberal in today’s GOP the same way there’s was a place for a 19th century village atheist. And there must still be moderate, even liberal, GOP judges, on lower courts in Pennsylvania, who continue to run for re-election, every ten years, as Republicans, while privately mostly voting for Democrats. No harm in it.
I am a former Republican. Most of my adult life. I’m 62 and the first time I voted for a Dem presidential candidate was in 2016. Nothing could make me vote for any Republican now.
I too long held the idea that the GOP had its flaws (and loonies), but was a sane party best aligned to my values, though demonized by “the left.”
2016 led to enormous self reflection. And to respond to the (perhaps now stale) OP, I believe the only cure for the GOP is starvation. Zero support from its former members. There are red lines that surround virtually all Republicans for me. Didn’t vote for impeachment? I don’t care if you don’t parrot the stolen election lies and behave politely in mixed company. You are unfit for office.
The GOP’s descent into vile corruption is so complete, that perhaps a near death is the only remedy. And if it’s a total death, so be it. “Republican” is just a name. Any party worthy of my support has decent values at a minimum, never mind actual policy. What do I care if some party with that moniker survives?
So as someone who can relate, my advice is not to try influence an evil, corrupt entity, not one so completely debased. Starve them. Zero support.
I questioned my own tribalism so completely that I’ve become a bit of a bleeding heart. Who woulda thunk it? If someone argues that I’ve just switched tribes, I’m fine with that. I prefer the tribe that tends closer to human decency and protecting our democracy.
ETA: Now a registered Democrat, if that wasn’t obvious.
Great post, and this kind of deep personal thought and change reflects very well on you.
Has the Republican push for debt default (along with all the increased costs so far, and the ton of higher costs that would come with a default on the debt) finally erased your impression that the Republicans are fiscal conservatives? If you think that both sides are responsible for the debt/deficit, but only one side is threatening not to pay the bills, I imagine that would change your mind about fiscal responsibility of that party.
I used to be a Republican, and voted consistently Republican until 2016, at which point I became a third-party voter.
It’s not that I became more liberal - on some issues, such as LGBT or affirmative action, I’m as conservative as I’ve ever been. Rather, I became more practical. For instance, I used to think it was unfair to charge the rich a higher percentage of income taxes, until I realized that’s simply where the money is.
Then Covid and Ukraine came, and it became clear that Republicans were not interested in common sense, or even helping the good guys. When one side is cheerleading for Russia’s invasion, I’m done.
When I think of the current state of the GOP, I think of a line from Terry Pratchett’s The Fifth Elephant:
Once upon a time Republicans actually cared about the country. Now they’re a party of people who would shoot holes in the bottom of the boat and laugh because it would make the liberals wet.
My brother in law is a good ole boy. Grew up on a farm, lifelong Republican. Ride ended for him on 1/6/21.
Ironically, my sister (his wife) has gone from feminist Rockefeller Republican to full on MAGAT.
He described her current politics as “Grandma cheering as her grandchildren drown because their parents should have taught them to swim”
No because the whole debt ceiling issue is a game the Dems and the Pubs play with each other. We will never default on our debt but the Pubs will puff out their chest and threaten because they know the Dems will eventually cave to whatever concessions they are asking for.
No the real reason I am considering becoming independent and stop being one of the 9 libertarian Republicans in this state is because the Republicans have become the enemy of the republic. I’m not talking the insurrection (I’m not ignoring it but bear with me) but the fact that Republicans are now removing elected state legislators from office on the crime of being a Democrat - and no one on my side of the aisle sees that as a problem. Look I can forgive many bad things my party does and Democrats (the people not the elected officials) do the exact same thing but the insurrection cannot be considered a one-shot deal from a crazy-ass president and even crazier mob. No, now they are attacking piece-by-piece the very fabric of our democracy and I cannot be in a party that as a whole supports that.
Thanks for your kind words. Very meaningful coming from a poster I respect.
Very well said and thought out, Saint_Cad. Are there literally nine libertarian Republicans in your state or is that just a bit of poetic license to make the point that there are darn few of them? I’m glad to see that there are some on the right like yourself that acknowledge the clear and present danger that Republicans pose for democracy.
Very nice. I read this whole thread with this idea in mind and you perfectly conveyed what I was thinking, but even better as you are someone who has actually made the change (myself, I am a Democrat).
We are a blue state and 1/3 independents. I’d be shocked if given my state’s political climate there were triple-digit libertarian Republicans here. Too many options.
QFT. And the only remedy for this is for the Republican Party to no longer exist.* Becoming a third party voter is not going to make that happen.
*Of course, the real trick is to ensure that it’s not supplanted by something worse. What we’re really after is finding an ethical way to eliminate the mindsets that comprise the current GOP from the body politic.