# "My kid is a genius." "So is mine." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 10, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264 "2005-05-10T18:47:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/121 "2005-05-12T18:34:24Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > See, the funny part is your assumption that your test scores were higher than mine or any of the other posters in this thread. Cite for where I said that, you lying piece of shit? > [@spoke-](#): > > News flash: The Straight Dope Message Boards are **full** of erstwhile precocious children. Check your ego at the door if you’re going to post here, sport. Mmm hmm. First, asshole, this doesn’t have a thing to do with ego. Second, if you’re the kind of fool who would brag about experiences in freakin’ **high school** I’m sorry for you, but I wouldn’t, and I didn’t. Just told a story, schmuck. And if you were so brilliant, why do you object to someone simply relating a story? “He told a story of how it was rough to be smart in high school! Get him!” Sorry if that doesn’ t sound like the battlecry of someone who isn’t a jealous fuck. > [@spoke-](#): > > The fact that several posters drew the same conclusion should give you pause to ponder. [Should it?](http://www.fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html) That, by the way, is probably the second slimiest tactic on the Dope. No, having more people agree with you doesn’t make you correct, I’m sorry to say. Nor does it make your arguments correct, nor does it lend logic to your position. Try again. And by the way, the conclusion I’ve come to about those who’ve responded with attacks against me is that for some reason or another, someone writing about being smart and having a tough time in highschool is somehow a bad thing. Whether this is due to jealousy, anti-intellectualism, idiocy, or just plain vapid smarm, I really don’t know. Care to enlighten me as to why listening to stories about the lives of smart people makes you mad? > [@spoke-](#): > > If you were using your experience to make a point, you could have easily made the same point without patting yourself on the back. (By inventing an anonymous “friend” with the problem you described, for example.) I should’ve **lied**??? That’s your answer? In order to avoid idiots like you, I should’ve **lied**??? Guess what, it didn’t happen to a friend of mine, I’m not a liar even though you may be, and I wasn’t patting myself on the back. But at least I have enough honor to know that being a liar is wrong. Fuck you. > [@spoke-](#): > > Modesty is a social tool, one which you have apparently never learned to use. “Act like a dumbshit, and they’ll treat you like one of their own.” -J.R. “Bob” Dobbs. And here we get to the crux of the issue. False modesty. Fuck you, and fuck your sense that lacking pride is a virtue. Modesty is a tool for those who are offended by excellence. If you’re one of those people, you can be happy to know that it’s your jealous little rules of convention which’re creating an anti-intellectual America. But feel proud, you’ve done something great! I mean, no, no, don’t feel proud, feel, um… humble! Yeah, don’t take any pride, naw aww! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/122 "2005-05-12T18:38:29Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > Um, **FinnAgain**? > > You totally missed the point of the OP. Um, **fessie** , [Ya don’t say?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6145283&postcount=52) But evidently that didn’t stop people from attacking me, and snarkily pointing out how ‘ironic’ my post was. I should probably just Pit them and be done with it. > [@fessie](#): > > And you misspelled “graduated”. I’m dyslexic and dysgraphic, I count myself lucky when I can organize text such that it’s readable. Spelling? I don’t really worry all that much about it. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/123 "2005-05-12T18:39:11Z")
Yep. You definitely need to have some kids. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/124 "2005-05-12T18:48:09Z")
> [@Cemetery Savior](#): > > Well, there are certainly no self-esteem issues there. I had an English prof who beat into us “If you claim it exists, you must find textual support!.” So, please tell me, where am I talking about anything having to do with ‘self-esteem issues’? Or is that just another round of insults? > [@Cemetery Savior](#): > > I don’t think my charges were baseless. Yes yes, I’m clear on what you think, the point is you’re wrong and being an asshole. I told a story of what my time in highschool was like, that’s freakin’ it! After that, I’ve had the plasure of being attacked by a group of fools. > [@Cemetery Savior](#): > > You’re like a terrier with a suddenly-interesting bath towel. You latch on, and can’t seem to let go of the tug-o-war. Relax the jaws of contention! “I’m calling you arrogant and a braggart, and you won’t just let it go and admit I’m right! Mommmmy! I’m tellllling!!!” Guess what shit for brains? You insult me, I’ll swing back. Crazy concept, I know. I should just sit here and take some abuse for daring to point out that some smart kids have it rough. Sorry for getting uppity. > [@Cemetery Savior](#): > > I’m fully aware of the meaning of “ironic”. I have Google! So tell me, what’s ironic? “Sometimes those are legitimate concerns” What exactly is so ironic about that? You must be using a different dictionary than I am. > [@Cemetery Savior](#): > > And as far as lurking around, doing vanity searches for your “irony” references…I doubt I’ll be wasting much time doing so. That’s good… because I’d hate to say you’ve been whooshed. > [@Cemetery Savior](#): > > If you were unaware that your initial posting would be read as back-patting, then you’re also a little less intelligent that you would suggest, Finn. Why, pray tell, is it an intelligent reaction to assume that on the Dope of all places, I would be met with hostility for sharing a story elucidating how some parents’ concerns were valid? Intelligence is now measured by one’s ability to predict when jealous schmucks will pop out of the woodwork? Should I be wary about ever talking about anything anecdotal, lest the mediocretins jump on me? Mmm hmmm. Good plan. Maybe I’ll just start lying too, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try_As_I_Might)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/125 "2005-05-12T18:48:25Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Modesty is a tool for those who are offended by excellence. If you’re one of those people, you can be happy to know that it’s your jealous little rules of convention which’re creating an anti-intellectual America. But feel proud, you’ve done something great! I mean, no, no, don’t feel proud, feel, um… humble! Yeah, don’t take any pride, naw aww! wow, i was just lurking on this issue, but i think you just summed it up very nicely. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/126 "2005-05-12T18:51:40Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > Yep. You definitely need to have some kids. What the fuck is that supposed to mean you asshole? Because I’m aware and already apologized for my off topic first post I’d be a bad father? Because I was jumped on for talking about my time in highschool? Because I’m dyslexic and dysgraphic so I don’t worry about my spelling I’d be a bad parent? Fuck you and fuck zero content snark. You haven’t made a point, you haven’t defended it logically, you’re just sniping with snark. Be proud of yourself! Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/127 "2005-05-12T18:58:04Z")
bwahahahahahaha You should definitely have kids b/c you’ve got the energy for allllllll of this nonsensical arguing. Who better to raise a toddler? I just hope your gf turns out to be the better breadwinner, so that you can be the one to stay home. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/128 "2005-05-12T19:26:04Z")
[My apologies for the hijack of this thread. Y’all can now get back to a discussion of parental message board culture, I"ll take those who have a problem with the folks who don’t submit to false modesty to mah sparkly new thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6152138#post6152138) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/129 "2005-05-12T19:27:13Z")
Let me get this straight, if we call you out for your obnoxious arrogance, we are somehow harming the _country_? Oh no, **Finn** , you don’t have an ego problem at all. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/130 "2005-05-12T19:30:31Z")
Care to stop hijacking this thread? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/131 "2005-05-12T19:50:50Z")
Please, Lord, don’t make me click on that link! I just know it’s a template for a trainwreck/meltdown! ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/132 "2005-05-12T21:07:55Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > I have to say, although I never try to be a jerk about it, it’s sometimes hard to relate to people who don’t understand you. I don’t use “fancy polysyllabic” [at least, I assume that’s what you were going for] words because I want to look down my nose at people, I use them because they’re accurate, and I think in them. But it’s difficult to be going full steam in the middle of a sentence and have your conversation partner have to stop and ask you what your words mean. I’m not subscribing to the “smart people have an excuse to be social misfits because they’re Above It All” theory, but it is sometimes hard to communicate with people who don’t have the same vocabulary you do. > > It’s a problem I’ve been running into a lot recently, and I’ve had to think a lot about how I use language and whether or not I should consciously “dumb down” my vocabulary to relate to more people. It’s not an easy problem to solve. Its not necessarily dumbing down of a language rather its intelligently using the tools you have to communicate your ideas. The smart people use the words that most effectively convey the meaning of their statements. For example if I were loaning something to Bruno the stupid football player saying “Hey Bruno please be fastidous with that” is dumb. You will have failed in communicating what you wanted to. If you continue to use words he doesn’t understand he isn’t going to want to have a conversation with you. You basically failed in your goal of establishing a relationship with Bruno. It doesn’t matter whos fault it is, him not knowing the words or you using them, the fact of the matter is you didn’t accomplish your goal when you could have. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/133 "2005-05-12T21:18:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Its not necessarily dumbing down of a language rather its intelligently using the tools you have to communicate your ideas. The smart people use the words that most effectively convey the meaning of their statements. For example if I were loaning something to Bruno the stupid football player saying “Hey Bruno please be fastidous with that” is dumb. You will have failed in communicating what you wanted to. If you continue to use words he doesn’t understand he isn’t going to want to have a conversation with you. You basically failed in your goal of establishing a relationship with Bruno. It doesn’t matter whos fault it is, him not knowing the words or you using them, the fact of the matter is you didn’t accomplish your goal when you could have. We’re saying the same thing. To relate to more people, you have to modify/censor you language. It just depends on what your goal is. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/134 "2005-05-12T21:53:35Z")
Pretty much but I take issue with the idea of ‘dumbing down’ your vocabulary. Intelligence manifests itself in many different ways from the book work types to the scientist types. For example you might breeze through a novel with elaborate and obscure language becuase you are a bookwork. On the other hand if we put you in a quantum mechanics class you might go in the corner and suck on your thumb. Consequently if you are talking to a scientist they might not know some obscure vocabulary just as you might have no idea what Boise-Einstein condensation is. Neither of you are stupid and using language that you both understand isn’t dumbing down to the others level. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/135 "2005-05-12T22:33:39Z")
One of the very real drawbacks to being raised like that is it creates an impression on the child that intellectual ability/competitive in connection therewith is the most important element in life. I’ve seen a lot of people (myself included to some degree) who hang on to intellectual ability as some type of lynchpin of superiority, because all they were taught was about how special they were. In high school, they never fit in, and to defend themselves attempted to use their “99th percentile, graduating early, smarter than you” babble to justify their purported superiority. They then years later reminisce about how hard it was to be smarter than the smartest, and never learn that a large part of the difficulty was because they were preoccupied with how/whether they were really smarter than the smartest, and constantly brought the subject up to people who didn’t give a shit. They are more than willing to understand why no one likes the jock who talks too much about his athletic accomplishments, but never seem to grasp the same problems with their superior intellectual ability. In addition, the ego can become consumed with a need to know that you really are smarter than everyone else, and the fact that there are a hell of a lot of other people out there who are brighter is hard to take. Some grow out of it. Unfortunately, some never seem to come out of the rain. Listening to adults talk about how smart they are, how they graduated high school early, etc. just nauseates me for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/136 "2005-05-12T23:21:00Z")
> [@treis](#): > > For example if I were loaning something to **Bruno the stupid football player** saying “Hey Bruno please be fastidous with that” is dumb. > [@treis](#): > > Pretty much but I take issue with the idea of ‘dumbing down’ your vocabulary. Intelligence manifests itself in many different ways from the book work types to the scientist types. … **Neither of you are stupid** and using language that you both understand isn’t dumbing down to the others level. Bolding mine. So, which example are we talking about, Bruno the idiot or Terrence the scientist? Either way, I disagree that having an advanced vocabulary is the same as having a technical vocabulary. If Terrence the scientist doesn’t know what “fastidious” (an adjective with a commonly applicable meaning) means, that’s different than my not knowing what a “Boise-Einstein condensation” (a proper noun with a specifically technical meaning) means. “Fastidious” could drop into a conversation at any time, while “Boise-Einstein condensation” would only come up if we were talking quantum mechanics. I would have to censor my language at all times if Terrence didn’t have as large a general vocabulary as I did, and if I didn’t have as large a technical vocabulary as Terrence did…why are we talking about quantum mechanics in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/137 "2005-05-13T05:26:51Z")
If you want to see the Lake Wobegon effect in action, just start a thread on the SDMB asking people what their IQ is. Such threads inevitably bring in a hundred or more self-professed geniuses, parading a set of stratospheric IQs that defy any reasonable statistical likelihood. The thread hums with the sound of gigantic, pulsating brains emanating measurable gamma radiation. Invariably, claims of absurdly high IQs (I don’t think a lot of allegedly smart people really understand how high, or how rare, an IQ of 170 is) are couched in false modesty: “I have an IQ of 186, not that that means anything, ha ha.” “I have an IQ of 193, but of course, who cares about IQ, even when it’s 193?” “My brain is so enormous that it desn’t fit in my skull. I have to carry it around in a duffel bag. But I’m just folks.” Frequently claims of superhuman IQs are also accompanied by the uber-lame “Yes, I did fail out of school, but it was because I was too smart” story. Go ahead, start an IQ thread. If you dare. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/138 "2005-05-13T11:05:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you want to see the Lake Wobegon effect in action, just start a thread on the SDMB asking people what their IQ is. Gah. I got into a long conversation last night with someone who mentioned, somewhat out of the blue, that her sister’s IQ was 165, but her IQ was only 147. I can’t believe I was wasting my time speaking with someone who is only a 147. :rolleyes: In proud parent news, we got The Boy’s latest reading scores yesterday and he’s improved by 2 grade levels in the last 4 months. If he had any sort of ambition he’d be frightening. And he still can’t tie his own shoes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/139 "2005-05-13T12:50:48Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Bolding mine. > > So, which example are we talking about, Bruno the idiot or Terrence the scientist? Either way, I disagree that having an advanced vocabulary is the same as having a technical vocabulary. The point is, I think, that it is a Western (in fact very English) social attitude that we do not boast about our achievements. Boasting about our kid’s achievements is clearly a reflection on oneself - albeit perhaps a misguided one (‘smartness’ being difficult to determine as a genetic trait, rather than a sociological one). In the same way, we try to play down our increased vocabulary, enhanced motor skills or whatever in what is clearly false modesty. But that’s the thing. It’s a social skill, to avoid antagonising others and to aid communication. It’s not about dumbing down, it’s about being a social human being. As an aside, this is one reason why plenty of Americans are given the ‘brash, arrogant’ label when they’re interacting with us in the UK - the threshold of ‘modesty’ seems to be set at a slightly higher level than the typically ‘reserved’ English person. Read Watching the English (Kate Fox) or just about anything by Desmond Morris (Manwatching would be a good start) for more layman’s anthropology. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264/140 "2005-05-13T17:55:38Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > In the same way, we try to play down our increased vocabulary, enhanced motor skills or whatever in what is clearly false modesty. But that’s the thing. It’s a social skill, to avoid antagonising others and to aid communication. It’s not about dumbing down, it’s about being a social human being. But it remains, I think, that in order to be a social human being, in some cases, you do have to “dumb down.” The problem as I see it is that having a wide vocabulary isn’t (or shouldn’t be) an exceptional achievement. It’s the English language, which we all speak. But to many people, yourself included, apparently see employing this skill as “showing off”. To me, that’s as silly as asking people who speak another language not to do it in front of us, or tall people to hunker down so they don’t make us feel short, and then we get into this sort of Vonnegut-esque “everyone must be equal in order to relate!” business. Which are of course exaggerations, but do you see where I’m coming from? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kid-is-a-genius-so-is-mine/303264.md?page=8)