# My kid's teacher taught them the Alanis definition of "ironic". **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 1, 2006, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107 "2006-09-01T19:10:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DangleYourModifier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@DangleYourModifier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DangleYourModifier)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/61 "2006-09-03T08:43:19Z")
From George Carlin A diabetic that gets run over by a truck - it’s not ironic, it’s an accident. A diabetic that gets run over by a truck carrying sugar - that is approaching irony. A diabetic that gets run over by a truck carrying insulin - that is precisely ironic. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/62 "2006-09-03T14:04:32Z")
Ok- **Excal** --I wasn’t offended by your correction, just curious. Why isn’t grammar formally taught in our schools? My kids did something in elementary school called, “Daily Oral Language”. This drove me nuts because I thought it should be Daily Verbal Language, but I digress. This amounted to about 5 minutes of the class assessing a sentence on the board and identifying the parts of speech, proper tenses of verbs and if they “matched” the noun etc. And, that was it. I got more than that, in 6th grade, if memory serves. But how can we expect fluidity and competence in language and writing skills if none are taught? sorry for hijack, just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/63 "2006-09-03T14:31:46Z")
There is one example of pure irony in the song: “…and as the plane crashed down, he thought, ‘Well, isn’t this nice.’” That’s pretty much the only example I can find that is actual irony, as opposed to “eh, sucks to be you, don’t it?” ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/64 "2006-09-03T16:09:28Z")
Apparently I have been possessed by a comma spewing evil fairy. Sorry. Re the song itself: I never got the black fly in your Chardonnay one–it’s not even close to irony or humor or satire or anything but Ew, really. But it’s still a good song, if not proper for grammar instruction (and how many pop songs are, truly?) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/65 "2006-09-03T16:14:45Z")
[QUOTE=Hamadryad] There is one example of pure irony in the song: “..and as the plane crashed down, he thought, ‘Well, isn’t this nice.’” That’s pretty much the only example I can find that is actual irony, as opposed to “eh, sucks to be you, don’t it?” [/QUOTE] It would be far more ironic if the guy got off the plane at the last minute before it took off, walked back towards the airport, and then got run over by a plane taxiing down the runway. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/66 "2006-09-03T16:43:24Z")
[QUOTE=kelly5078] Y’know, I coudn’t really say. It seems to me that part of irony must somehow involve the “punch” you get when it’s triggered. Once it’s been revealed that the girl’s a vampire, the whole thing loses its punch, and it becomes just more of the same. But I really don’t know. A little help here? [/QUOTE] That situation is dramatic irony only if the audience knows that the girl is a vampire and the boy she kills knows there’s a vampire in the area and is looking for the vampire. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/67 "2006-09-03T17:15:07Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] It must be extremely gradual then. For some anal retentive reason I’m fixated on this rule, so I notice its violation (or not) all the time. All the American newspapers and books I read seem to follow it. That “style of quotes” is still the [official rule](http://www.writersblock.ca/tips/monthtip/tipmay96.htm), I believe. [/QUOTE] I was also always taught to put the punctuation inside the quotation marks, and that is how I usually see it in books and newspapers. I’m surprised to hear there is a movement against it in this country. To answer the OP’s question, while I agree the teacher’s definition of ironic is incorrect, I would **not** write a letter about it, even anonymously. It’s too minor an issue, and it will only get her defensive and upset. Just clarify the issue for your son, and leave it at that. Wait for the **big** mistakes before you start writing concerned letters. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/68 "2006-09-04T05:21:35Z")
\*Dear My Kid’s Teacher, I don’t wanna piss you off, I got a concern now, yeah. I’m no grammar Nazi, I like things accurate, I’m sure you agree now, baby! And what it all comes down to, Is that I want my kid to grow up smart, smart, smart. So try a little less pop culture. and a little more from a dictionary!\* 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Phantom\_Dennis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/51bf81/32.png) [@Phantom\_Dennis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phantom_Dennis)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/69 "2006-09-04T09:12:22Z")
From Webster’s (definition 3a): ``` (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity ``` By this definition, most of Alanis’s examples are ironic. It’s not the most common or precice definition of irony, but Webster’s says it’s correct, and I’m not going to argue. Alanis could have chosen a better title for the song, like “Tragic”, or “Sucktastic”, but seeing that it’s such a catchy tune, I forgive her. ---
**Author:** ![Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abby_Emma_Sasha)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/70 "2006-09-04T10:27:33Z")
I just heard that Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray while diving in Australia. If he had been killed by a crocodile that would have been ironic. Yeah, I’ll take a one way ticket to Hell, please. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lovely\_Margo\_Lane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@The\_Lovely\_Margo\_Lane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lovely_Margo_Lane)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/71 "2006-09-04T13:15:37Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] My kids did something in elementary school called, “Daily Oral Language”. This drove me nuts because I thought it should be Daily Verbal Language, but I digress. This amounted to about 5 minutes of the class assessing a sentence on the board and identifying the parts of speech, proper tenses of verbs and if they “matched” the noun etc. [/QUOTE] Oh my goodness! I had forgotten all about that nonsense until you mentioned it. I transfered to a new school district for fifth grade and we did that “DOL” stuff all the time. I knew enough at 10 to think the name was dumb. Thanks for the blast from my grammar past! Your kids didn’t go to “great schools” in a semi-ritzy Minneapolis suburb, did they? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/72 "2006-09-04T22:29:39Z")
[QUOTE=Abby\_Emma\_Sasha] I just heard that Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray while diving in Australia. If he had been killed by a crocodile that would have been ironic. [/QUOTE] Actually, I was just about to post the opposite. The death of Steve Irwin, sad as it may be, is a classic example of Tragic Irony. Someone in Irwin’s profession, you’d expect to be eaten by a crocodile, kicked by a kangaroo, or poisoned by one of those deadly snakes he would handle with such a cavalier attitude. Instead, he’s felled by a creature you would hardly expect to be deadly (stingray deaths are extremely rare) and he wasn’t even manhandling the creature at the time. Hence, it’s ironic. It’s similar to Dar Robinson, oft touted as “The World’s Greatest Stuntman”, who fell off his motorcycle at 15mph, struck his head and died. That’s Tragic Irony. On the other hand, Dale Earnhardt smashing the wall at 180mph during the Daytona 500 is tragic, but _not_ ironic. (And now I feel a shadow has been cast over this thread…) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/73 "2006-09-04T22:55:38Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I was first taught that irony is when the literal meaning of something is opposite the intended meaning. Alternately, _it can be when an expected outcome is not achieved, and the opposite occurs._ … \*Tuna fish + no can opener, or “A no smoking sign on your cigarette break” \*or “Ten thousand spoons, when all you need is a knife” aren’t ironic but…unfortunate, maybe? He wantes me to write a gently worded, anonymous email to her, but I want to [/QUOTE] Don’t the italicized scenarios fit the italicized definition? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/74 "2006-09-05T02:19:53Z")
[Paul Harvey] and now the rest of the story 20 years or so ago, when WhyKid’s teacher was just starting, her favorite student was a little girl named Alanis, who grew up to be a pop singer. [/Paul Harvey] ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/75 "2006-09-05T02:28:10Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] It would be far more ironic if the guy got off the plane at the last minute before it took off, walked back towards the airport, and then got run over by a plane taxiing down the runway. [/QUOTE] That goes right past irony and into slapstick. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/76 "2006-09-05T03:08:32Z")
[QUOTE=Abby\_Emma\_Sasha] I just heard that Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray while diving in Australia. If he had been killed by a crocodile that would have been ironic. Yeah, I’ll take a one way ticket to Hell, please. :eek: [/QUOTE] My SIL came over last night and was talking about how “ironic” Steve Irwin’s death was. My husband added “He was filming a documentary called ‘Ocean’s Deadliest\*’” and SIL said “How really ironic!”. I said “No, that’s not ironic. That’s apt. Ironic would be if he was filming ‘How To Survive Encounters With Ocean’s Deadliest’”. I suppose it is a little ironic that Steve Irwin, Crocodile Man, known for handling dangerous animals and putting himself at risk, was killed by an animal not usually regarded as dangerous, but SIL was using it in the “animal handler killed by animal” context. \*And we’ve all since heard that he wasn’t filming for that documentary at the time he died, but it is the reason he was up at that part of the coast at the time. ---
**Author:** ![snorlax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@snorlax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snorlax)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107/77 "2006-09-05T12:59:40Z")
There is a fire door in my office that is propped open with a fire extinguisher. I would call this ironic. But is it not literally ironic until a fire starts and spreads though the doorway, rendering the extinguisher inaccessible? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-kids-teacher-taught-them-the-alanis-definition-of-ironic/371107.md?page=3)