# My Letter to Jerry Falwell **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887 "2002-07-01T19:26:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/1 "2002-07-01T19:26:48Z")
Jerry Falwell sent me an e-mail (I dont know how I ended up on his mailing list; I’m an liberal atheist) asking me to sign a petition to “protect the pledge of allegiance.” Here was my response: (I’ve put this in GD since its a controversial issue that many people will probably attack me for.) > [@](#): > > Dear Jerry, > > The pledge of allegiance is a paradoxical, self-contradictory piece of trash. It violates the American tradition and right of independent thought by asking people to recite a mindless affirmation of our freedom. A truly free nation doesn’t need a pledge to tell us what to think. Furthermore, the words “under god” are offensive to me, and to many others, and have NO PLACE in a governmentally endorsed pledge. Imagine if you were asked to say “One nation under Satan” or “One nation under Allah.” It is just as disagreeable for me to say, “under god” as it would be for you to say those phrases. In order for people of all religions or non-religions to be truly equal under law, it is essential that our government gives us all equal respect to our beliefs. > > Sincerely, [my name] ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2002, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/2 "2002-07-01T22:31:44Z")
uh oh Now your on their **list** …:o ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/3 "2002-07-02T00:34:09Z")
Hey, if it makes you feel better. But there’s no way this’ll make a difference, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![robwrigley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@robwrigley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robwrigley)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/4 "2002-07-02T00:52:46Z")
Knee-jerk Atheists are no better than Knee-jerk Christians (or Muslims, or Jews, or Hindus, or Snake-worshippers). Neither side can see a phrase like “under god” for metephor. Rob ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/5 "2002-07-02T00:53:05Z")
Yeah, the only thing that could possibly accomplish would be to get it off your chest. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/6 "2002-07-02T01:00:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robwrigley \* > **Knee-jerk Atheists are no better than Knee-jerk Christians (or Muslims, or Jews, or Hindus, or Snake-worshippers). Neither side can see a phrase like “under god” for metephor.** Enlighten us. How is it a metaphor? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/7 "2002-07-02T01:08:48Z")
Simple: It’s a metaphor when the damn liars who know full well it’s not (the hoard of congressfolk) want the people who know it’s not to bend over and take the violation of the constitution. This rant-addition brought to you by a veteran and a believer in deity. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/8 "2002-07-02T01:50:09Z")
Is this the petition you got? Or has he written a new one? [http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/2001/12/121401\_Falwell\_Email.html](http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/2001/12/121401_Falwell_Email.html) ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/9 "2002-07-02T02:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\*Hey, if it makes you feel better. But there’s no way this’ll make a difference, unfortunately. \*\* Yeah, oh well. I’m still glad I did it, even if he’ll never read me. How am I a “knee-jerk Atheist”? ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/10 "2002-07-02T02:27:47Z")
Oh, **the ryan** no it’s a different petition. ---
**Author:** ![robwrigley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@robwrigley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robwrigley)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/11 "2002-07-02T02:38:11Z")
Qwerty: Because you are pretending to be so offended by the phrase “under god…”. Quite frankly, I think you are just posing. Rob ---
**Author:** ![Taran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Taran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taran)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/12 "2002-07-02T02:42:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by rogwrigley_ > Qwerty: > > Because you are pretending to be so offended by the phrase “under god…”. > > Quite frankly, I think you are just posing. And why, if I may ask, do you think that? Do you know **qwertyasdfg** in real life? 'Cause otherwise, you have nowhere near enough data to even guess about what he does and does not believe. From one newbie to another, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![robwrigley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@robwrigley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robwrigley)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/13 "2002-07-02T02:49:26Z")
I was being charitable. If Qwerty really is all that upset over a little phrase like “under god”…well, we will just say it doesn’t bode well… Rob ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/14 "2002-07-02T03:01:04Z")
Right, only Christians can possibly be upset by this whole issue… ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/15 "2002-07-02T03:07:55Z")
\*\*Qwerty: Because you are pretending to be so offended by the phrase “under god…”. Quite frankly, I think you are just posing. Rob\*\* I believe you are missing the point here. Why, exactly, is it just a little thing when a government does everything they can to recite a “patriotic pledge”, one that includes a phrase that contradicts the personal beliefs of millions? Also, if it is just a “little thing”, why wouldn’t Christians also be “posers” for getting extrodinarily upset over the removal of two words? Getting offended by a blatant violation of SoCaS does not necessarily mean that one is thin skinned. ---
**Author:** ![Taran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Taran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taran)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/16 "2002-07-02T03:11:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by robwrigley_ > I was being charitable. If Qwerty really is all that upset over a little phrase like “under god”…well, we will just say it doesn’t bode well… As a Christian, I am upset that anyone is being forced to call America a nation “under God”. What conclusion do you draw from this? And by the by: calling **qwertyasdfg** a poser does not qualify as being charitable. Re: the OP, I’m on that same damned mailing list, and apparently it’s Falwell’s goal to get one million signatures on this stupid petition of his. He might even succeed. I haven’t responded, mostly because I don’t want him to know that he’s sending to a valid address. I **do** want to find out who gave him my addy in the first place, but the details of that are more appropriate to the Pit than to GD. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/17 "2002-07-02T03:24:02Z")
Taran: I think Jerry found me because his college has a list of email addresses of students that he wants to advertise to. I’ve gotten mail from all sorts of colleges, including “Liberty” University, which he is apparently the chancellor of (which contradicts its title.) I guess he’s borrowed this list for his own personal uses. I had a comment about this, but it was, as you said, Pit material. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/18 "2002-07-02T05:34:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **Simple: It’s a metaphor when the damn liars who know full well it’s not (the hoard of congressfolk) want the people who know it’s not to bend over and take the violation of the constitution.** I gotta be honest, I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say here. Care to explain a little, please? ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/19 "2002-07-02T05:41:27Z")
I don’t want to speak for Monty, but I think he’s saying that the “metaphor” claim is lie/excuse, to trick atheists and other dissenters into giving consent, while the people making this claim actually take it literally, and don’t actually consider it a metaphor at all. Thats how it seems to me at least. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887/20 "2002-07-02T05:41:40Z")
I think what Monty is trying to say is that people (specifically, congresspeople) do not actually believe it **is** a metaphor, they are merely **saying** that it is a metaphor in the hope that this (rather weak) argument will let them squeak past the first amendment’s Establishment Clause. BTW, I **hated** saying the “under God” part of the pledge when I was in elementary school (1970s). In 5th and 6th grade, I rolled my eyes (like this: :rolleyes: ) instead of saying “God”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-letter-to-jerry-falwell/116887.md?page=2)