# My Life **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607 "2010-07-30T17:53:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/81 "2010-08-02T09:22:52Z")
All are born equal in that we are all going to cease to exist, sever this mortal coil, enter The Big Sleep, kick the bucket, meet our maker, a.k.a. die. There’s no talking your way out of it, no hidden loopholes, despite the attempts of the best minds throughout the ages searching every nook and cranny. It truly is The Great Unknown, as natural as birth, but as mysterious as anything in the far-reaches of space. Whether we face that journey with fear, or acceptance, seems to be the only choice we have in the matter, so I suppose whatever gets you through the night is all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/82 "2010-08-02T17:10:55Z")
Full disclosure: I am not a Christian, but as a young preteen and teen I was very devout. I see so much of myself in you sometimes. I want to recommend a book to you. It is called [The Jesus I Never Knew](http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-I-Never-Knew/dp/0310385709). I read it at your age, at the height of my own religious fervor, and it had quite an impact on me. It is a book based on Biblical teachings written by a devout Christian from a Christian perspective, but it’s also a kind of paradigm shift about who Jesus really was. There is a tendency to focus a lot on Jesus the deity rather than Jesus the man. In Christian doctrine, Jesus was both man and God. The book argues that we can’t so readily dismiss the man part. Some have argued that it was necessary for God to walk in the footsteps of man to truly understand the human condition. Jesus was a guy who would rather spend his time with prostitutes and tax collectors than the pious. He didn’t do this out of pity, he did it because he seemed to genuinely enjoy spending time with them. He didn’t make arbitrary distinctions about who had sinned more. Sin is sin. Everyone sins; it is the great equalizer. Nobody is beyond redemption. There is a tendency in Christian circles to emphasize redemption as a series of acts you must commit. Redemption from the mainstream Christian perspective is not something you can earn. It’s a gift from God, and the only string attached is that you believe that gift is real. What on earth do you think is so irredeemable about yourself that this gift doesn’t apply to you? If Jesus the man were here with you now, he would probably wrap his arm around you and say, ‘‘Take it easy, man. I’ve got your back.’’ Being a real Christian, based on my experience, is about believing in the truth of that. That’s freedom, the price He paid for you. He did not want you to engage in constant self-flagellation, that wasn’t what the man came to do. He came to make you free. That’s cause for celebration. ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/83 "2010-08-02T17:24:29Z")
**Curtis LeMay** is the Justin Bieber of spirituality. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/84 "2010-08-02T18:43:58Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > Over the last day I’ve convinced myself that I may not have really understood the fact that Jesus died for my sins and thus I’m now frightened that if I haven’t stood that fact I am unsaved and thus I’ve been basically been praying for salvation. Am I deluded or have I come to reality? > > Do you really believe Jesus died for us, effectively buying our way into heaven with his own life? > > Well then, he obtained your salvation already, and all you have to do is accept it and follow his very simple rules (and HE said there are ONLY TWO of them). So what is there to be scared of? NOTHING. I’m not sure whether I accept it in my heart or just say “Oh yes, yes” to it. Also you need to surrender your whole life to God: did I really do that? Also I’m reminded of people who were far more fervant believers than I yet are apostate now: it is quite clear from Scripture that they were never saved in the first place-so what if my salvation is false? Do I love God just for saving me or do I love Him because He is? That’s my main anxiety. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/85 "2010-08-02T18:53:55Z")
Well, that’s the sick soul aspect of calvinism and predestination. If you maintain this belief system, you’ll probably tussle with it for the rest of your life. Read the conversion account of David Brainerd for a particularly depressing account of a young man who would suffer in his sinfulness for months and then experience a few days of ecstasy at the idea of salvation followed by months of depression. It’s hard on a person and the idea of arminianism is attractive because being healthy-minded is, frankly, easier on a person mentally. I don’t have advice other than to repeat what others have said. Be not afraid. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/86 "2010-08-02T18:53:57Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > Do you really believe Jesus died for us, effectively buying our way into heaven with his own life? > > > > Well then, he obtained your salvation already, and all you have to do is accept it and follow his very simple rules (and HE said there are ONLY TWO of them). So what is there to be scared of? NOTHING. > > I’m not sure whether I accept it in my heart or just say “Oh yes, yes” to it. Also you need to surrender your whole life to God: did I really do that? Also I’m reminded of people who were far more fervant believers than I yet are apostate now: it is quite clear from Scripture that they were never saved in the first place-so what if my salvation is false? Do I love God just for saving me or do I love Him because He is? That’s my main anxiety. Oh for Christ’s sake (that isn’t a swear, I mean literally- FOR CHRIST’S SAKE), get over yourself! It’s not about you! It’s not about whatever motivations you have for loving God! It’s not about if you understood or accepted Christ properly, IT IS ABOUT THE FREAKIN’ GRACE OF GOD FROM WHICH CHRIST DIED AND ROSE FROM YOU! Now relax in that & get the book olivesmarch4th recommended & anything else by Philip Yancey! And stop reading Calvinists for a while & read some Lutherans. And also go here [www.internetmonk.com](http://www.internetmonk.com) and read a LOT of Michael Spencer’s essays! You are saved by faith in Jesus. You are not saved by faith in your faith in Jesus. And if you ask “What if I don’t have perfect faith?” I’m gonna smack you! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/87 "2010-08-02T19:23:41Z")
If you love God from fear, you’re doing it wrong. Jesus said there are two things you have to do to gain eternal life: ``` 25And one day an authority on the law stood up to put Jesus to the test. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to receive eternal life?” 26What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you understand it?” ``` 27He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Love him with all your strength and with all your mind.’ And, ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ ” 28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do that, and you will live.”. ( **Lk. 10:25-28** ) Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. “Do this and you will live.” Nothing about specific, doctrinal belief. Nothing about God processing your precise state of mind when you accept Jesus. Just two things - love God and love your neighbor. “Do this and you will live.” Now, it is fair to ask what counts as loving God. Jesus answered that question himself: But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: 25:32and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats; 25:33and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 25:34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 25:35for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in; 25:36naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 25:37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink? 25:38And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 25:39And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 25:40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me. 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels: 25:42for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink; 25:43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 25:44Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 25:45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me. 25:46And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life. ( **Mt. 25:31-46** ) “Whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me.” That’s all of it right there, man. That’s the whole thing. That’s all you need to know and need to do right there in those two passages, and those are the words of Jesus himself. There’s also a nifty little passage from the 1st Epistle of John that dovetails nicely with this: 7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son\*\* into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. ( **1 John:7-12** )[/indent] This says that love comes from God, and if we love others then God is “complete” within us. In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul says, “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” There’s a theme emerging here, is there not? And it’s not about doctrine. Showing compassion to others is the activation of God in oneself. That’s all you have to do. Whatever you do to others, you do to God. Show them compassion. “Do this and you will live.” To paraphrase Rabbi Hillel, the rest is bullshit. [indent] ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/88 "2010-08-02T20:58:36Z")
The things you believe are damning you to Hell, why exactly is it that you believe they will cause you to be damned to Hell? And in response to most other people believing those things don’t result in being damned to Hell, what is it that you would point out to them as counter-evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/89 "2010-08-02T21:30:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I feel compelled to share at least some of my life as it relates to God. > > Well throughout most of my later childhood while I did go to church I didn’t attend services as I was kind of frightened of some of the biblical accounts (such as that of the Flood) and didn’t really believe in God. Instead I stayed outside. Well my father is Christian but he never strongly pressured me although he did push me gently from time to time and my mom is Buddhist (well we’re Korean-Americans so it isn’t too surprising). However gradually around two or three years ago as I increasingly began to know of God I inched closer toward salvation. > > Finally around two years ago (I think) I got saved. Of course I was ignorant of most doctrine and I was reluctant to attend church because it seemed awkward to suddenly attend services. At the same time I struggled with various sins. About a year ago though after the church split up my dad moved to a new church founded by many members of the first church and I, starting from scratch, began attending services there. Slowly my pattern of sinning decreased and I began learning more about theology and the Gospel and began reading the Bible and praying constantly. However at the same time I have been worried and frightened whether I’m not truly saved because I wondered if I had truly understood the Gospel and salvation when I was saved two years ago and the fact that I had no distinct memory of my salvation. I also agonized over the fact that I rarely had communion with God (although I know I’ve had that communion sometimes) despite what Rev. John MacArthur said: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > Have you experienced communion with God and Christ? Have you sensed Their presence? Do you have a love for Them that draws you to Their presence? Have you experienced the sweet communion of prayer--the exhilarating joy of talking to the living God? Have you experienced the refreshing, almost overwhelming sense of grace that comes upon you when you discover a new truth in His Word? If you have, then you have experienced the fellowship of salvation. > > > > ``` > > I’ve also been concerned that my church is weak doctrinally speaking and that I can’t stay focused on God. (I haven’t read any other posts in this thread, so I apologize if this is redundant.) Don’t worry about your salvation. God alone judges. That means you are not able to know your own state of grace (or anyone else’s). Don’t worry about doctrine or dogma. God will judge your life in its entirely, not on the quibbling details of rules or claims. Don’t worry about how others experience God or what they believe. While others might give you some guidance, your relationship with God is unique. You must find and follow God on your own terms. Do what you believe is right. Sometimes you will succeed, sometimes you will fail. God is with you either way, proud of your wise choices and forgiving of your poor ones. Accept both and continue doing good. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/90 "2010-08-02T22:21:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > Well throughout most of my later childhood . > > Dude, you are what, 13? 14? Oak, Oak, Oak. We’re Southerners. We call lads that age _son_. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/91 "2010-08-03T00:42:58Z")
Curtis, you have some of our best non-Christians witnessing to you about the grace of God & the saving work of Jesus. Now, listen to them & don’t live in your head so much! ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/92 "2010-08-03T01:04:04Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > The things you believe are damning you to Hell, why exactly is it that you believe they will cause you to be damned to Hell? And in response to most other people believing those things don’t result in being damned to Hell, what is it that you would point out to them as counter-evidence? It should be remembered that we’re already damned to Hell, its our _natural state_. > [@FriarTed](#): > > Curtis, you have some of our best non-Christians witnessing to you about the grace of God & the saving work of Jesus. Now, listen to them & don’t live in your head so much! After prayer, I think I’ve been only saved now. It was true I’d believed in Jesus Christ before but I truly devoted myself to Him only now. I think I truly love God’s holiness only now and the sufficiency of His atonement for our sins. Unlike many people I think the Holy Spirit brought me to faith and church before my salvation. Before I think I’d just believed in the remote “mentally affirm as true” sense. I think until then I was under the influence of the “common operations of the Holy Spirit” rather than a saving one which still “appeared to produce faith and repentance”. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/93 "2010-08-03T01:10:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If you love God from fear, you’re doing it wrong. > > Jesus said there are two things you have to do to gain eternal life: > > ``` > 25And one day an authority on the law stood up to put Jesus to the test. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to receive eternal life?” > > 26What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you understand it?” > > ``` > > 27He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Love him with all your strength and with all your mind.’ And, ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ ” > > 28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do that, and you will live.”. > ( **Lk. 10:25-28** ) > > Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. “Do this and you will live.” Nothing about specific, doctrinal belief. Nothing about God processing your precise state of mind when you accept Jesus. Just two things - love God and love your neighbor. “Do this and you will live.” > > Now, it is fair to ask what counts as loving God. Jesus answered that question himself: > > But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: 25:32and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats; 25:33and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 25:34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 25:35for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in; 25:36naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 25:37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink? 25:38And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 25:39And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 25:40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me. 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels: 25:42for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink; 25:43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 25:44Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 25:45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me. 25:46And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life. > ( **Mt. 25:31-46** ) > > “Whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me.” > That’s all of it right there, man. That’s the whole thing. That’s all you need to know and need to do right there in those two passages, and those are the words of Jesus himself. > > There’s also a nifty little passage from the 1st Epistle of John that dovetails nicely with this: > 7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son\*\* into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. > ( **1 John:7-12** )[/indent] > > This says that love comes from God, and if we love others then God is “complete” within us. > > In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul says, “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” > > There’s a theme emerging here, is there not? And it’s not about doctrine. Showing compassion to others is the activation of God in oneself. That’s all you have to do. Whatever you do to others, you do to God. Show them compassion. “Do this and you will live.” > > To paraphrase Rabbi Hillel, the rest is bullshit. > > [indent] Good post. I wish Christians weren’t so caught up in the supernatural, and insistent on literal acceptance of obviously metaphorical passages, because the bible can be pretty badass if read secularly. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/94 "2010-08-03T01:18:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@FriarTed](#): > > > > Curtis, you have some of our best non-Christians witnessing to you about the grace of God & the saving work of Jesus. Now, listen to them & don’t live in your head so much! > > After prayer, I think I’ve been only saved now. It was true I’d believed in Jesus Christ before but I truly devoted myself to Him only now. I think I truly love God’s holiness only now and the sufficiency of His atonement for our sins. Unlike many people I think the Holy Spirit brought me to faith and church before my salvation. Before I think I’d just believed in the remote “mentally affirm as true” sense. I think until then I was under the influence of the “common operations of the Holy Spirit” rather than a saving one which still “appeared to produce faith and repentance”. OR maybe you were saved then & are saved now, but your understanding has developed more & thus so has your salvation. Are you getting a lot of this stuff from John MacArthur or some other single source? When I was your age I was getting a lot of my theology from Hal Lindsay so at least you’re a step up. But what you really need is to expose yourself to a multitude of Christian voices. And to realize that you need to just flow in trust in Christ & not struggle in your ability to trust Him. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/95 "2010-08-03T01:28:27Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > After prayer, I think I’ve been only saved now. It was true I’d believed in Jesus Christ before but I truly devoted myself to Him only now. I think I truly love God’s holiness only now and the sufficiency of His atonement for our sins. Unlike many people I think the Holy Spirit brought me to faith and church before my salvation. Before I think I’d just believed in the remote “mentally affirm as true” sense. I think until then I was under the influence of the “common operations of the Holy Spirit” rather than a saving one which still “appeared to produce faith and repentance”. > > OR maybe you were saved then & are saved now, but your understanding has developed more & thus so has your salvation. I’d like to think so in a way-that I really trusted the Lord before and submitted to Him. > [@](#): > > Are you getting a lot of this stuff from John MacArthur or some other single source? When I was your age I was getting a lot of my theology from Hal Lindsay so at least you’re a step up. But what you really need is to expose yourself to a multitude of Christian voices. And to realize that you need to just flow in trust in Christ & not struggle in your ability to trust Him. I didn’t get this only from Rev. MacArthur-I got it from Ray Comfort and a relatively generic one based on something from Billy Graham too. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/96 "2010-08-03T01:35:20Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It should be remembered that we’re already damned to Hell, its our _natural state_. I don’t think so. What am I missing? Why would a loving God play by such sadistic rules? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/97 "2010-08-03T01:40:09Z")
Ray Comfort is a complete Charlatan. He’s the inventor of the banana argument, for Pete’s sake. Billy Graham is no phony. Pay more attention to him. Even Rick Warren is better than guys like Comfort and MacArthur. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/98 "2010-08-03T01:41:48Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@Indistinguishable](#): > > > > The things you believe are damning you to Hell, why exactly is it that you believe they will cause you to be damned to Hell? And in response to most other people believing those things don’t result in being damned to Hell, what is it that you would point out to them as counter-evidence? > > It should be remembered that we’re already damned to Hell, its our _natural state_. This belief has no Biblical basis, nor is it compatable with a compassionate God. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/99 "2010-08-03T01:58:37Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > > [@Todderbob](#): > > > > And if you really like that Jesus Guy, John 10:35. > > I don’t get it ?? Anyone want to take a stab at this? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607/100 "2010-08-03T02:02:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Ray Comfort is a complete Charlatan. He’s the inventor of the banana argument, for Pete’s sake. His views on the origin of life is wrong in my opinion but that doesn’t mean his opinions on God and salvation are wrong. > [@](#): > > Billy Graham is no phony. Pay more attention to him. Even Rick Warren is better than guys like Comfort and MacArthur. What’s your problem with John MacArthur? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > It should be remembered that we’re already damned to Hell, its our _natural state_. > > This belief has no Biblical basis, nor is it compatable with a compassionate God. John 3:18 (NIV) > [@](#): > > Whoever believes in him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-life/548607.md?page=6)