# My mom was robbed... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473 "2009-10-28T17:11:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/1 "2009-10-28T17:11:19Z")
… and I am trying to figure out how it happened. She has had her ATM/Visa Debit card on her at all times, but someone has been using what appears to Compass’s comptuer system to be the exact same card to withdraw $500 dollars a pop at different banks (even a Compass bank) about 35 miles away. This happened for the course of two days until all of her money was gone. She has canceled the card and is trying to work with Compass to get the funds back. She is having to do a police report and dispute the charges, but Compass doesn’t seem to really want to work with her on this since it appears that they used her PIN to access the funds. On her account statement, the card is being used almost at the same time about 35 miles away from each other. She used it to buy a movie ticket while the thief was using it to pop her for another $500 bucks. How did this happen? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/2 "2009-10-28T17:13:48Z")
Has she ever given out her PIN to anyone, including someone trusted? Rob ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/3 "2009-10-28T17:18:03Z")
I am the only one that knows it. And I didn’t rob her. I promise. ---
**Author:** ![Sofis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Sofis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofis)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/4 "2009-10-28T17:19:14Z")
Fake ATM maybe? [Link](http://www.snopes.com/fraud/atm/atmcamera.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/5 "2009-10-28T17:19:37Z")
Sounds like a card scanning scam. [http://www.fraudtech.bizland.com/ATM\_scam\_alert.htm](http://www.fraudtech.bizland.com/ATM_scam_alert.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/6 "2009-10-28T17:21:26Z")
I’ve heard of crooks putting a phony front on an ATM so that their machine reads the card before the real ATM reads it-- That would give you the data that’s on the magnetic stripe. A camera also installed on the ATM points at the keypad, and sees the PIN as it’s entered. Then you get a new card from somewhere (used hotel keycards, perhaps) and re-magnetize it to match the stolen information. I have no idea how common this is, but it’s at least a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/7 "2009-10-28T17:21:51Z")
There are any number of ways. At checkout counters, a nefarious employee could have a card reader attached to the debit machine that is recording cards swiped through it. Some criminals have attached hidden cameras looking down at the PIN pad of ATM machines to record PINs, and likewise have attached card readers to the ATMs to record their card info. This latter has even made the news in the last year or two. Chip-and-pin cards have made it harder to do this, but if your mom doesn’t have one of those then it’s entirely possible she could have been a victim of one of the aforementioned methods (or others I’m not aware of). ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/8 "2009-10-28T17:25:39Z")
But she hasn’t been to the bank ATM machines that they have emptied her account from. I don’t think she has a chip and PIN card though. She mainly uses it as Visa Credit on transaction. ---
**Author:** ![Sofis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Sofis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofis)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/9 "2009-10-28T17:31:35Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > But she hasn’t been to the bank ATM machines that they have emptied her account from. No, but the thieves may have rigged a fake card reader and camera on an ATM she does use, getting the card info and PIN, and then creating a duplicate card which can be used anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/10 "2009-10-28T17:32:56Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > But she hasn’t been to the bank ATM machines that they have emptied her account from. She wouldn’t need to have been. She only would have to have been to a bank machine that thieves have installed their scanning/video equipment on. The thieves can then duplicate a card with her info and use any machine they want to take the money out. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/11 "2009-10-28T17:34:29Z")
That sucks. Does anyone know what the liability is on her for this? I have heard that you can’t get out of all fraud if its checking account money. Thats why I don’t have a credit/debit card, only an ATM card. ---
**Author:** ![TerpBE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@TerpBE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TerpBE)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/12 "2009-10-28T17:34:52Z")
Most likely an ATM card skimmer. A device attaches to the outside of the ATM card slot and reads the magnetic strip when she puts her card in. It’s designed to just look like a part of the ATM so you don’t realize anything’s wrong. Once they have the magnetic strip information, they also need the PIN. So they hide a camera somewhere on/around the ATM to see what PIN she types in. With the magnetic strip information, they can make duplicate ATM cards, and with the PIN they can use them to withdraw money. Here are some pictures of a typical ATM skimmer: [http://www.snopes.com/fraud/atm/atmcamera.asp](http://www.snopes.com/fraud/atm/atmcamera.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/13 "2009-10-28T17:36:41Z")
**Translucent Daydream** said: > [@](#): > > But she hasn’t been to the bank ATM machines that they have emptied her account from. Doesn’t matter. Once they scan the card and get the PIN, they can go to any ATM and get money. They program a card with the number and bingo - they’re golden. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/14 "2009-10-28T18:10:46Z")
I misunderstood my mom. Compass is actually being very helpful, but it will be at least 7 days before they get their money refunded… 🙂 Thanks for the info everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/15 "2009-10-28T18:29:02Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > That sucks. Does anyone know what the liability is on her for this? I have heard that you can’t get out of all fraud if its checking account money. Thats why I don’t have a credit/debit card, only an ATM card. > [@](#): > > **ATM or Debit Card Loss or Fraudulent Transfers (EFTA).** Your liability under federal law for unauthorized use of your ATM or debit card depends on how quickly you report the loss. If you report an ATM or debit card missing before it’s used without your permission, the EFTA says the card issuer cannot hold you responsible for any unauthorized transfers. If unauthorized use occurs before you report it, your liability under federal law depends on how quickly you report the loss. > For example, if you report the loss within two business days after you realize your card is missing, you will not be responsible for more than $50 for unauthorized use. However, if you don’t report the loss within two business days after you discover the loss, you could lose up to $500 because of an unauthorized transfer. You also risk unlimited loss if you fail to report an unauthorized transfer within 60 days after your bank statement containing unauthorized use is mailed to you. That means you could lose all the money in your bank account and the unused portion of your line of credit established for overdrafts. However, for unauthorized transfers involving only your debit card number (not the loss of the card), you are liable only for transfers that occur after 60 days following the mailing of your bank statement containing the unauthorized use and before you report the loss. > If unauthorized transfers show up on your bank statement, report them to the card issuer as quickly as possible. Once you’ve reported the loss of your ATM or debit card, you cannot be held liable for additional unauthorized transfers that occur after that time. Source: [Lost or Stolen Credit, ATM, and Debit Cards | Consumer Advice](http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre04.shtm) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/16 "2009-10-28T18:51:59Z")
If it’s a card skimmer, there are likely other people with the same problem, and the bank should know that. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/17 "2009-10-29T10:18:43Z")
One that is being used is a sensor pad that is inserted under the keypad of a paypoint. Seems that in the UK well known petrol(gas) chains are responsible. I know someone who has had this happen, the police explained how it was done, used to be Shell stations. She was advised that the best prtoection is not to go to one of these main gas stations as they are not actually owned by the company whose name is on the sign, they are actually franchises and are fre to hire anyone they choose - certain amount of corruption has come in on thses small franchisees. She was advised to go to her local supermarket gas stations as these are not franchised - they are owned by the supermarkets and they do carry out the reference checks. I still think the best protection is cash. Gas station and restaurant skimming are notorious here in the UK, I would imagine its the same in other parts of the world too. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/18 "2009-10-30T02:19:32Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > If it’s a card skimmer, there are likely other people with the same problem, and the bank should know that. Yep. She should check to see when her last _legitimate_ cash withdrawal was, and where, and make sure the bank (and police) know that. It may be helpful in documenting other cases of fraud, and hopefully help catch the scammers. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-mom-was-robbed/515473/19 "2009-10-30T02:51:22Z")
Something like this happened to my fiance (we had been together about 6 months then). The credit union he banked at ended up refunding half of the money withdrawn, because it was a pin transaction and we couldn’t find who did it. Hopefully the ATMs where it was fraudulently used have cameras so they can get an image of the person(s) doing this.