# My neighbor is a complete asshole about property lines. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 26, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681 "2014-09-26T23:18:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/21 "2014-09-27T02:16:05Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I think I’m confused about what fences existed to begin with and what you put up, but no matter, that’s what I’d do. > Have the city spray the property line (make sure they do it if you can, so it’s very obvious that it’s official) > Get the permit, so there’s no legal issues with the height or placement. > Put up the privacy fence from the back of the lot to the front of the house. This is probably going to be a few grand. > You could probably hold off on removing the old one to save money if you need to. Also, depending on the type of fence and how it’s in the ground, you might even be able to pull it your yourself. > Finally, I wouldn’t waste your money on a fence in the front yard. That suggestion was just so you couldn’t see each other, period. A chain link fence or shrubs will cost money and not accomplish anything. These are between half acre and one-acre lots. There was no fence at all when I bought this place, but Asshole Neighbor already had a fence in place. His is 6’ privacy fence, as is mine except for the sections in front of the house. I have already spent a few grand in fencing, including part of the front yard! The marker delineating the property line is clear, but is decades old. I need to contact the township to figure out what my next steps are legally. Yes, I agree that I need to quit being nice girl and start being bitchy in kind! ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/22 "2014-09-27T04:39:37Z")
If his fence is right on the property line, I don’t think he can make you put up another one. You tried to be nice and he did not. Check the local law ( lawyer if you can afford it ) Make an official report to the police so it is on file. Refuse to talk to him in any manner. You have a bad neighbor and unless he does something illegal, he will always be a problem. He can move or you can move or you can just ignore him. If he yells or does anything, call the police post haste. Get a big ugly biker to hang out for a week or so. Do that while you are taking your fence down to use in a place you need one or just save the lumber or sell it. That kind of person will not be nice, they will just keep pushing as long as they can get away with it. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/23 "2014-09-27T11:08:30Z")
He’s trying to use adverse possession to claim part of your property. Stop him from mowing _your_ lawn _immediately_ or else one day it will become _his_ lawn. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/24 "2014-09-27T11:33:55Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Yes, I agree that I need to quit being nice girl and start being bitchy in kind! Not bitchy, but assertive and firm. “This is my property.” Repeat as necessary. Reason will not work, nor will giving him back what he dishes out. Just be calm, factual, and stand fast. The flaming bag of poop on the porch can come later. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/25 "2014-09-27T11:53:24Z")
Good thoughts, thanks! **Second Stone** , thanks for correcting me - yes, surveyor is what I should have said. Yes, the guy who does my lawn mowing will probably be here today and I already texted him to do the strip between the fences. Bumping my fence out would entail a cost I don’t really want to incur at this point but maybe I should do it. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/26 "2014-09-27T12:35:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > He’s trying to use adverse possession to claim part of your property. Agreed. I know someone who this happened to, and it ended up in the courts in a long (and losing, for my friend), expensive battle. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Cell\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Cell\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cell_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/27 "2014-09-27T13:04:24Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Good thoughts, thanks! **Second Stone** , thanks for correcting me - yes, surveyor is what I should have said. > > Yes, the guy who does my lawn mowing will probably be here today and I already texted him to do the strip between the fences. Bumping my fence out would entail a cost I don’t really want to incur at this point but maybe I should do it. He yelled at the kid for “trespassing” on “his property” even though it’s actually yours. You need to take that fence down now and put a lawyer on speed dial. It’s going to get ugly. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/28 "2014-09-27T13:26:59Z")
Just so we’re clear, there are TWO fences, one right on his property line with a 6’ privacy fence, and then another fence 2 feet in to your property; am I describing this accurately? And he’s coming around his own fence to police 2 feet of YOUR yard?! I agree with **Twoflower** , he’s _already_ your enemy, and fuck him. Personally, I would put up the ugliest, most garish, most fucked up looking fence possible, like a rusty, refugee camp-style tin roof fence, or a full-on prison fence with barbed wire and shit, but I’m guessing that’s both not allowed or desirable for you. . ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/29 "2014-09-27T14:35:34Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Probably not. If you grant permission the use is not “adverse”. It wouldn’t matter if you granted permission. Without a written agreement What’s relevant is who maintains the land. Fortunately he’s never done that. The guy acts as if he put his fence 2 feet on HIS property line. Get it surveyed by the county with markers and make it clear who owns what. Then put up a 2 foot fence gate between the two fences and mow it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/30 "2014-09-27T14:39:15Z")
Also look into Prescriptive Rights. Similar to adverse possession. From wiki - > [@](#): > > Once they become legally binding, easements by prescription hold the same legal weight as written or implied easements. But, before they become binding, they hold no legal weight and are broken if the true property owner acts to defend their ownership rights. Easement by prescription is typically found in legal systems based on common law, although other legal systems may also allow easement by prescription. > > **Laws and regulations vary among local and national governments, but some traits are common to most prescription laws. > open and notorious (i.e. obvious to anyone), > actual, continuous (i.e., uninterrupted for the entire required time period), > adverse to the rights of the true property owner > hostile (i.e. in opposition to the claim of another. This can be accidental, not “hostile” in the common sense) > continuous for a statutorily defined period of time** > > _Unlike fee simple adverse possession, prescriptive easements typically do not require exclusivity_. In states that do, such as Virginia, the exclusivity requirement has been interpreted to mean that the prescriptive user must use the easement in a way that is different than the general public, i.e. a use that is “exclusive” to that user, Callahan v. White, 238 Va. 10, 381 S.E.2d 1 (1989). I think the OP should probably consider taking that fence down. And maybe unfortunately, consult an attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/31 "2014-09-27T14:51:47Z")
Territorial turds like that exist, unfortunately. Years ago I rented a small house. Within a day a neighbor came over to tell me that he actually owned a strip of land on our side of the fence between the two properties and would be coming over the fence to plant/mow on that strip. I told him he had better take that claim up with our landlord before trying any such thing.\* In regards to the OP, if it’s bothersome enough I’d consult an attorney before doing anything further. Sometimes a simple letter on attorney letterhead will cause people to dial back on their aggressiveness (of course, depending on the nut in question, it might accelerate unpleasantness). \*He and his wife were genuine nutcases. We once caught her raking a few leaves on our lawn; her excuse was that they were blowing over on _their_ lawn, so she had a right to be there :rolleyes:. She also sneaked over to “pick up refuse paper” on our lawn, in a location that just happened to be under our bedroom window. I would sometimes shovel snow off the front sidewalk, doing not only the walk in front of our place but a couple of feet on his side as well. Naturally that pissed him off. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/32 "2014-09-27T15:17:17Z")
It was nine years before my weekend neighbour spoke to me; and when she did, she launched right into the property line. Twenty-some years ago – three owners of this property ago – the then-owner of this house encroached on her property. The dispute was settled in court. The property line in the front half of the lot would be where the owner of this house placed it by encroaching. The property line in back would be moved three feet from the original line into this lot. (Good for me, really, because nobody uses the back part of the properties.) Around 2001 or 2002, my friend (who owned the house then) saw the kinked fence and decided to straighten it out. When the neighbour saw it, she clouded up and rained all over him. He didn’t know about the encroachment. He had to put the fence back where it was. So anyway, when she spoke to me it was to complain that someone had moved the fence into her yard. The two-foot fence is rotting and falling down. I did try to make it stand up in its original position. I insisted I didn’t move the posts over. She then said that the growing trees had moved them over. She’s putting up a fence between her trailer and the house next door. I spoke with her handyman, and she wants to put up a fence between my house and her trailer. He won’t do it until she talks to me. (She spoke to me after I’d been here nine years, and once last year – again to complain about property lines.) I told the guy she can do what she wants, as long as the fence in the front of the yard isn’t higher than three feet. This will preserve both our views. He said she was planning on a low fence. The guy who encroached on her property put up a line of trees. As long as she puts the fence on the other side of the trees, I’m good. If she wants to put a fence on the tree line, I don’t really care. The SO likes the trees in back, but I think the space could be more useful. Either way. We’re talking inches. She’s retiring next year and will be spending more time in her trailer. She tends to keep to herself. But this isn’t my thread. If someone were actively encroaching on my property, as the neighbour is in the OP, I’d definitely not let him do it. Take down the fence and claim your own property as your own. Maybe pee along the property line to mark it. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/33 "2014-09-27T16:31:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The guy acts as if he put his fence 2 feet on HIS property line. Sorry you don’t have my neighbour. When I moved into this area the planning department told me since the area is still sparsely populated, it is a common practice to set your fence 1ft inside your boundary so you can mow outside and maintain your fence. My neighbour explained to me that he’d done this and I should put my fence 2ft from his. My fencing guys dug the holes but when the neighbour saw how silly it was going to look he told me not to do it, so now one foot of his land is on my side of the fence, we each mow our side. Thanks neighbour, you saved me a fence and a silly little alley way that neither of us would like to mow. He ‘lost’ a foot of land but on the other hand he doesn’t have to mow it anymore! Your neighbour is indeed an arsehole and if I were you I’d take down my fence and use his since it’s on the boundary. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/34 "2014-09-27T16:41:37Z")
One point from the OP has me confused, and no one, AFAICT has raised it. From the OP: > [@](#): > > The property marker clearly shows that his fence runs right along his property line Also from the OP: > [@](#): > > As long as the kid was within two feet of my fence (which he was) he was actually on MY property. ISTM that as long as the kid was NOT on the other side of the neighbor’s fence, he was on your property. But, I yeah, I agree with all the others about getting the property lines issues clearly settled, and on record within the courts system if the unpleasant neighbor insists on being a dick about it. As to this: > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Take down the fence and claim your own property as your own. Maybe pee along the property line to mark it. Bear in mind that the OP is a woman. While this does not make it impossible, she may need to enlist her friend’s grandson to complete this task. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/35 "2014-09-27T16:44:41Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Bear in mind that the OP is a woman. While this does not make it impossible… Hm… I have an idea for a new product. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Merejane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Merejane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merejane)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/36 "2014-09-27T16:54:40Z")
I’m sorry if this is a dumb question (posed by an apartment-dwelling city person), but if his fence is right on the property line, why do you need a fence at all? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/37 "2014-09-27T17:00:14Z")
> [@Merejane](#): > > I’m sorry if this is a dumb question (posed by an apartment-dwelling city person), but if his fence is right on the property line, why do you need a fence at all? I’m guessing that since the neighbour built the fence, it’s _his_ fence – including the back side of it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/38 "2014-09-27T17:09:16Z")
> [@Merejane](#): > > I’m sorry if this is a dumb question (posed by an apartment-dwelling city person), but if his fence is right on the property line, why do you need a fence at all? A good neighbor will let you connect directly to his corner post. If not then you put up a post next to his. He can’t stop you from utilizing the “back side of the fence” but he can be an ass if you damage it in any way. Don’t lean on it, breath on it or touch the weeds growing up the middle of it. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/39 "2014-09-27T18:07:50Z")
So far, there has been some mention of adverse possession, of who is maintaining the strip of land, etc. But there’s one more aspect of these issues that is critical, and nobody has mentioned : _documenting the evidence_ about the 2 fences, and who has access to, and who is maintaining the land between the fences. Adverse possession law usually requires 7 or 10 years of continuous use by one party. So far, 4 years have gone by, but it’s only your word against his. Pay some money to hire a professional land surveyor and mark the boundary. (You say there is one property marker, and that it is old. In any case, one marker is not enough–you need two marked points to define the property line.) The surveyor will both physically mark the boundary on the ground, using stakes with his professional license number stamped on them., and he will draw a map of your property, signed and dated. The map will clearly label the property line, and the 2 fence lines,and gates in the fence, with the distances between the fences and the property line clearly shown. But before you hire the surveyor, _ADD A GATE_, or remove a section of your fence–so that the map shows clearly that you have physical access to that strip of land between the fences. Also, it would be a good idea to build something in that strip of land. For example, a simple flower bed with a decorative lattice-work fence for some planted vines to climb on, with a decorative rock path providing access to the flower bed from your side of the property. The surveyor will draw all this on the map. If you ever go to court, you will have solid proof that the land was yours, and you had built improvements showing your use of the land. The neighbor might claim that you gave him verbal permission to use the land as his own, but you will have written evidence to disprove his claim. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681/40 "2014-09-27T19:19:38Z")
I’m trying to imagine any reason to have two fences. :rolleyes: That’s so odd. One fence defines a property line. Sometimes its owned entirely by one person. At my house the fence to the right is on my property. The fence on the left is owned by my neighbor. All the houses on this street are like that. You only have a fence on one side of your property to maintain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-is-a-complete-asshole-about-property-lines/699681.md?page=3)