# My neighbor, the rottweiler, and the invisible "fence". HELP! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 2, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981 "2002-12-02T17:00:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/1 "2002-12-02T17:00:17Z")
My nieghbors, for reasons known only to themselves, despite having a huge back yard, have elected to allow their rottweiler access to their front yard confined only by an invisible eletric fence. Every time we go out into our driveway, the dog comes running out from the back in attack mode. At first, he remained behind the fence growling and lunging, but in the last few days he has chased our cars down the driveway and actually crossed the “fence” onto our property. We then told the owner who at first said it wasn’t true, then said she would “take care of it”. However, she did nothing, and the dog continues to menace us every time we go into our own driveway. My research on line on this issue has been disappointing. The only similar case where a dog crossed the “fence” and attacked a motorcyclist resulted in favor of the dog owner. What recourse do we have? Do we have to wait until the dog eats me some night when I have to leave for work in the dark before we can make them keep this dog in their back yard? Laws in Spokane County Washington make no reference to these fences. We bought a digital camera for the express purpose of capturing this dog on our property in attack mode on camera. Where can we go for help? Anyone know? HELP ! ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/2 "2002-12-02T17:08:14Z")
Okay, question one: What kind of invisible “fence” is this? Does such a thing exist? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/3 "2002-12-02T17:13:18Z")
Laws differ of course but I don’t think you have to wait to get attacked before being able to do something. Call Animal Control in your area and ask about this. If a dog is shown to be a menace or threatening the owner must take action to suitably restrain their dog. Of course, a polite talk to your neighbor might be a good start too. If they are reluctant to work with you then you might point out what happened not too long ago in San Francisco where the owners of those Canary dogs were charged with murder because of the actions fo their pet. I realize you least of all want it to get to that point but maybe your neighbor needs to be made to understand that not restraining their dog can have some VERY serious consequences for them. The videotaping is a great idea too…really takes any argument form teh neighbor that their fuzzy-puppy-wuppy can act like a vicious beast. Finally, and just as a possible alternative, you may think about getting to know the dog (you and your family). Maybe, if the dog sees you as family or ‘ok’ people it won’t be aggressive. That might be a stretch to ask though so take it FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/4 "2002-12-02T17:13:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > \*\*Okay, question one: What kind of invisible “fence” is this? Does such a thing exist? \*\* Question two: are you in some sort of [perpendicular universe](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%2B%22invisible+fence%22)? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/5 "2002-12-02T17:18:12Z")
**Laurange** Invisible fences are transmitter-activated shock collars. They’re good, but can be overridden by a sufficient motivation. **Pohjonen** , there is no such thing as “attack” mode. Legally, in most jurisdictions, a dog must actually injure someone (often two someones) before being considered “vicious,” “dangerous,” or otherwise subject to prejudicial action. A dog who has bitten someone is often subject to municipal codes that require actual confinement, but dogs who growl, chase cars, and leave their property cannot be presumed to intend more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/6 "2002-12-02T17:19:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > \*\*Okay, question one: What kind of invisible “fence” is this? Does such a thing exist? \*\* Sure…Invisible Fences work by burying a cable around the property to be fenced in. The dog (in this case) wears a box on its collar that can sense when it gets close to the fence. The box beeps as the buried cable is approached and if the animal gets too close the box administers an electric shock. The shock delivered is usually adjustable (to allow differences in dog sizes…a Chihuaha needs less jolt than a St. Bernard). Mostly the shock is just meant to be uncomfortable but it can be painful (as a friend of mine personally testing it found out to his dismay…Darwin Award nominee except he lived). In theory the dog gets zapped a few times and learns to stop when it hears the box beeping. In practice many dogs learn to cope with the pain and just bolt through the few foto wide area that sets the box off. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/7 "2002-12-02T17:26:34Z")
Well, polite talking to the neighbor wouldn’t be fruitful I don’t think. They used to have an Akita running loose that came into our back yard, up on the porch, and took our cat out of its condo and mauled it. The subsequent vet bill taught them nothing, as they merely got another Akita, which along with the first one, came back over and killed another cat on our property. We called animal control that time, but nothing was done by the authorities. They said we’d have to “sue”. Now the neighbors keep the akitas confined, but I think that’s because I told them I’d buy a gun and kill them if I ever saw them on our property again. I think he believed me. Regarding the incident in San Francisco, I think it was an anomaly. I just saw on TV the other night where two neigbor pit bulls chased a woman’s cat into HER HOUSE, mauled HER until the police came and shot them 15 minutes later. The show said the dog’s owners weren’t charged with ANYTHING. I guess that’s because the poor 68 year old disabled lady wasn’t KILLED. Sorry. This subject gets me HOT. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/8 "2002-12-02T17:33:45Z")
So apparently there is no “leash law” or similar law in your town that forces the owners to keep animals on their own property? ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/9 "2002-12-02T17:38:00Z")
Yes, there is a leash law. Try walking your dog on a leash in my neigborhood, tho. Can’t do it. The rottweiler in question once left the yard to try to attack another neighbor kid who was trying to walk his dog on a leash. That kid wasn’t too happy either. Animal control has been next door many times. They never do anything though but fine them. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/10 "2002-12-02T17:40:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pohjonen \* > \*\*We called animal control that time, but nothing was done by the authorities. They said we’d have to “sue”. > … > I just saw on TV the other night where two neigbor pit bulls chased a woman’s cat into HER HOUSE, mauled HER until the police came and shot them 15 minutes later. The show said the dog’s owners weren’t charged with ANYTHING. I guess that’s because the poor 68 year old disabled lady wasn’t KILLED. Sorry. This subject gets me HOT. \*\* Then sue away…seriously. Criminal charges aren’t everything. Tell them you’ll have their house before it’s all over. As to criminal charges I think the animals in question need to be a known menace and the owner has to be negligent in their keeping. My dog is a 90 pound Shepherd and as sweet as they come. I could produce 50+ people (live in a condo so most who live there are familiar with her) who could attest to that. If one day she freaked and mauled someone I think you’d be hard pressed to get criminal charges laid on me. That said you could still sue my pants off. Call Animal Control anyway and document everything they tell you. Write them and ask for written responses in retrun. Make it clear to Animal Control the Rottweiler’s owner won’t be the only one you’ll hold responsible should the unthinkable happen. Along with your videotapes and calls to Animal Control you will lay the groundwork of evidence should something awful happen. While it is small consolation at that point at least they won’t get away with it. Perhaps if the neighbor knows you have a stack of evidence against them in preparation for a lawsuit and potential criminal charges they just might be more inclined to restrain the animal better. Still, there’s no accounting for stupidity but at least you’ll know you did what you could. Ask Animal Control if it is ok to shoot a dog on your property. It’d suck for you to get busted and sued trying to protect your family but the law is wonky enough to allow that sort of retarded thing to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/11 "2002-12-02T17:41:07Z")
I would buy a sword/gun/knife and kill the dog if it attacked me. I hate animal creulity, but if it threatens me in my yard, it is going to die. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/12 "2002-12-02T17:42:59Z")
If this “invisible fence” isn’t 100% effective, is it considered by the government keeping your dog restrained? If it isn’t definitely call animal control as if sounds like they’re doing something illegal (if dogs must be restrained in your area, which it sounds like). ---
**Author:** ![Calliope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Calliope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calliope)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/13 "2002-12-02T17:42:59Z")
You need to be calling the police, not animal control. “Dogs at large” is genrally recognized as a misdemeanor. If you call the police each and every time this dog harrasses you, they will have to come take a report and talk to the neighbor. Eventually, they will have to show up in court to answer the charges. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/14 "2002-12-02T17:44:37Z")
In Fort Worth, it is now illegal to keep a dog behind an invisible fence or chained up. They have to be behind an actual fence. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/15 "2002-12-02T17:46:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > \*\ ***Laurange** > **Pohjonen** , there is no such thing as “attack” mode. Legally, in most jurisdictions, a dog must actually injure someone (often two someones) before being considered “vicious,” “dangerous,” or otherwise subject to prejudicial action. A dog who has bitten someone is often subject to municipal codes that require actual confinement, but dogs who growl, chase cars, and leave their property cannot be presumed to intend more than that. \*\* This is exactly what I’m afraid of. Getting bitten before anything will be done by the authorities. Somehow it just seems very very wrong for this to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b3f665/32.png) [@Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hanna)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/16 "2002-12-02T17:46:16Z")
I’d do like Whack -a-Mole says - call the authorities every time it happens, and document the incidents. These folks give dog owners like me - who works hard and builds good fences to keep her animals in - a bad name. My dogs never get out and never harass people. Loose dogs are a threat to people living around them and to people like me who are responsible dog owners. Some insurance companies won’t even carry insurance for people who own the two breeds of dogs you mention your neighbors having - I wonder if they have insurance? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/17 "2002-12-02T18:08:20Z")
Ok…I found the following but i think it relates to Deer Park, WA, and not Spokane County. Still, it gives a sense of how laws are written in your area and it looks like you have some of the law on your side (any highlighting is mine). > [@](#): > > SOURCE: [Deer Park, WA Ordinance No. 1994-696](http://www.mrsc.org/Ords/D4-97696.aspx) > > P. “Under control” means the animal is under the control of a leash so as to be thereby restrained from approaching any bystander or other animal and from causing or being the cause of physical property damage when off a leash or off the premises of the owner. > > Q. “Dangerous dog” means the act of, or the propensity to do any act endangering the safety of any person, animal or property of another, including, but not limited to, biting a human being, an attack on human beings or domestic animal without provocation. Has been previously found to be potentially dangerous, the owner having received notice of such finding, and which dog again aggressively bites, attacks, or endangers the safety of humans or domestic animals. > > R. “Potentially dangerous dog” means any dog that when unprovoked: > > 1. Inflicts bites on a human or a domestic animal either on public or private property; or > > \*\*2. Chases or approaches a person upon the streets, sidewalks, or any public grounds in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack; or \*\* > > 1. Any dog with a known propensity, tendency or disposition to attack unprovoked, to cause injury, or otherwise to threaten the safety of humans or domestic animals. > > \ > > 6.04.060 Running at large prohibited. A. It is unlawful for any person owning or possessing any dog for such dog to run at large in the city. For the purposes of this chapter, “running at large” is defined to be the presence of a dog in any public street, alley, park or other public ground, except upon the premises of the owner or a dog running without control or beyond the control of his or her owner. > > B. A dog shall not be considered to be running at large if it is on a leash and under control of a person physically able to control it. Chapter 6.08 > > \ > > 6.14.020 Dangerous dog at large > > 6.14.030 Dangerous dog – Excuse > > 6.14.040 Dangerous dog – Confiscation > > 6.14.010 Dangerous dog registration. A. No owner may keep a dangerous dog, except a dog used by law enforcement officers for police work, without a certificate of registration issued under this chapter. The certificate of registration shall be acquired within fourteen days from the incident giving rise to the classification. > > B. The city issues a certificate of registration to the owner of a dangerous dog, upon payment of the fee set forth in by resolution of the city council, if the owner presents to the city sufficient evidence of: > > l. A proper enclosure to confine a dangerous dog; and > > 1. The posting of the premises with a clearly visible warning sign that there is a dangerous dog on the property, and a sign with a warning symbol that informs children of the > > presence of a dangerous dog; and > > 1. A surety bond issued by a surety insurer qualified under Chapter 48.28 RCW, in a form acceptable to the city, in the sum of at least fifty thousand dollars, payable to any person injured by the dangerous dog; or > > 2. A policy of liability insurance, such as homeowner’s insurance, issued by an insurer qualified under Title 48 RCW in the amount of at least fifty thousand dollars, insuring the owner for any personal injuries inflicted by the dangerous dog. > > 6.14.020 Dangerous dog at large. A. No owner may permit a dangerous dog to be outside the proper enclosure unless the dog is: > > l. Properly muzzled; > > 1. Restrained by a substantial chain or leash; and > > 2. Under the physical restraint of a responsible person > > B. To be properly muzzled, the dog must be wearing a muzzle that prevents it from biting any person or animal but which is made in a manner that does not cause injury to the dog or interfere with its vision or respiration. > > 6.14.030 Dangerous dog–Excuse. A dog is not declared dangerous if the threat, injury or damage was sustained by a person who: > > A. At the time: > > l. Was committing a willful trespass or other tort upon the premises occupied by the owner of the dog; or > > 1. Was tormenting, abusing, or assaulting the dog; or > > B. In the past has been observed or reported to have been: > > l. Tormenting, abusing or assaulting the dog; or > > 1. Committing or attempting to commit a crime. > > 6.14.040 Dangerous dog–Confiscation. A. An animal control officer immediately confiscates a dangerous dog if: > > 1. It is not validly registered under Section 6.14.010; or > > 2. It is not maintained in the proper enclosure; or > > 3. It is outside the dwelling of its owner, or outside the proper enclosure, and not under physical restraint of a responsible person; or > > 4. Its owner does not have the surety bond or liability insurance required by Section 6.14.010; or > > 5. Its owner having been previously convicted under this chapter, it attacks or bites a person or another domestic animal; or > > 6. Whether or not it has been previously declared dangerous or potentially dangerous, it aggressively attacks and causes severe injury or death to any human. > > B. If a dangerous dog has been confiscated because of an attack or bite, as provided in subsections (A)(5) or (A)(6) of this section, the animal control authority quarantines the dog for the appropriate length of time and thereafter causes the dog to be destroyed in an expeditious and humane manner. > > C. If a dangerous dog is at large in violation of Section 6.14.020, in addition to confiscation of the dog as provided in subsection (A)(3) of this section, the owner is guilty of a gross misdemeanor and punishable as provided in RCW 9A.20.021. Chapter 6.16 LIVESTOCK, POULTRY, AND EXOTIC ANIMALS Hope that helps some…definitely check the laws in your area and make them work for you. If Animal Control or the police come out and you feel a specific ordinance has been broken make the officer(s) aware of that fact. If they still don’t do anything ask for a written report on the incident. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_me](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@mister\_me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_me)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/18 "2002-12-02T18:14:50Z")
I agree with Epimetheus. If your concern is as great as it seems, and your physical well-being is being threatened, you have no choice but to destroy the dog. The longer you wait, toying with Animal Control and local police, the more you put yourself in danger. Hey, it’s a dog-eat dog-eat world out there! It’s survival of the fittest, baby! The laws may not be punishing the owner right now but they will protect you once this creature is eliminated. My suggestion, …purchase a powerful handgun and wait in the back yard for this dog to run into your property. Shoot to kill then call the authorities. Never speak to this neighbor again; just kill any and all of his dogs that enter on to your property. If you feel threatened, you have the right to do this. Don’t let this situation come back to haunt you (while your recovering in a hospital bed). ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/19 "2002-12-02T18:19:36Z")
If he lives in a neighborhood it is a **very bad idea** for him to shoot at the dog. It is most likely illegal and obviously very dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981/20 "2002-12-02T18:22:35Z")
This is incredibly bad advice. If this dog has done nothing but chase people and make you FEEL threatened, shooting it or harming it in any way subjects you to prosecution. Shooting a dog is a felony. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighbor-the-rottweiler-and-the-invisible-fence-help/139981.md?page=2)