# My neighborhood megachurch is holding a "fall festival" on guess what night? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667 "2012-10-23T21:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/21 "2012-10-24T00:16:13Z")
I hand out candy every year so the little hooligans in my neighbourhood don’t firebomb my house or poison my dogs. I’d be much happier if their parents would take them to church that night. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/22 "2012-10-24T01:25:54Z")
My grandparents’ Mennonite church has some sort of “trick or trunk” thing where they all stand around in the parking lot and give kids CANDY from their trunks. Churches like candy too, yo. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/23 "2012-10-24T01:53:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Halloween? I think you mean [Jesusween](http://jesusween.com/). Okay, Lutheran Asst. Minister here, chiming in with “That is indeed fucked up.” Did you read the “reason” for corrupting Halloween? > [@](#): > > A few days before Halloween, a word came to [Pastor Paul] to give out bibles to everyone knocking at his door expecting candy. On that day over 40 bibles were given out without him stepping out of his house. All it took was putting a bible into every bag as they opened each bag with a smile. Yeah, only one person was smiling at that house: Pastor Paul, with a sadistic grin. Do you really have to get freaked out by Halloween? Even the Puritans, of all people, had a saying (dubious cite: U2 quoted it from the stage during their ‘Zooropa’ tour-- they’d been getting flak for the over-the-top fake commercialism of the tour): “Mock the devil and he will flee from you.” So, Christian parents, let your kids dress up like witches or zombies or Mittens. It’s called Fun – try it. ---
**Author:** ![StuffLikeThatThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@StuffLikeThatThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StuffLikeThatThere)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/24 "2012-10-24T01:57:48Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > My grandparents’ Mennonite church has some sort of “trick or trunk” thing where they all stand around in the parking lot and give kids CANDY from their trunks. > > Churches like candy too, yo. I’ll bet it’s “Trunk or Treat” - my church has had those. There’s never been any pretending that it isn’t a Halloween party. And they always avoid scheduling it during the town’s trick-or-treat times. It can be nice for families who live where there isn’t much of a “neighborhood.” Trick-or-treating in the suburbs is great, but where I live, walking the neighborhood would take a healthy adult several hours. And you have to be prepared to jump the ditch to stay out of the way of trucks and combines. It’s not ideal for a kid in a monkey costume with impaired peripheral vision from the mask. We did have one year where a particularly prim person was running the party, and she told all the volunteers doing “trunks” that they had to dress as Bible characters. Some good friends of ours told her that was fine. They’d come as David and Bathsheba, when they met. She backed off. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/25 "2012-10-24T01:59:36Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > What better way to exploit the masses and bring in a few extra bucks? Is this some kind of terrible pun? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/26 "2012-10-24T02:08:15Z")
The really stupid part is that Halloween isn’t satanic in any way. It’s freakin’ Samhain dressed up as a secular holiday, and due to early Christian syncretism, given (get this) a Christian name. (All Hallows’ Eve) in anticipation of All Hallows(saints) Day on Nov. 1. Jack o’Lanterns, pranks, costumes, etc… are all old Celtic stuff that predates Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/27 "2012-10-24T02:08:18Z")
My elementary school had costume parades as part of our Halloween festivities. With witches and ghosts and demons. On school time. But we were Catholics and had invented the holiday, so it was okay. ETA: Fuck Samhain. I said we invented it and I’m stickin’ to it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/28 "2012-10-24T02:57:09Z")
One crazy lady in my nieghborhood tried passing out mini-bibles one year. Judging by all the TP and egg on her lawn the next day; I’m gonna say she should NOT have done that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/29 "2012-10-24T04:03:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Halloween? I think you mean [Jesusween](http://jesusween.com/). I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t want my kids anywhere near Jesus’s ween. There’s enough church scandals out there already. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/30 "2012-10-24T04:41:57Z")
Dudes. Halloween= All Hallows Eve, aka the eve of All Saints day. It’s been a Christian holiday since the fucking sixth century. I will agree that renaming it “Jesusween” is silly and ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/31 "2012-10-24T04:46:38Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > My elementary school had costume parades as part of our Halloween festivities. With witches and ghosts and demons. On school time. But we were Catholics and had invented the holiday, so it was okay. > > ETA: Fuck Samhain. I said we invented it and I’m stickin’ to it. 😉 You may be correct. Since All Hallow’s Eve came about around 600AD, we know almost nothing of pagan history for sure before that. In fact the earliest written celtic writings of any length come from aroudn that period. No doubt, some of the trappings of Samhain were pilfered for the pagans, just like for Christmas and Easter. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/32 "2012-10-24T04:55:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The really stupid part is that Halloween isn’t satanic in any way. It’s freakin’ Samhain dressed up as a secular holiday, and due to early Christian syncretism, given (get this) a Christian name. (All Hallows’ Eve) in anticipation of All Hallows(saints) Day on Nov. 1. > > Jack o’Lanterns, pranks, costumes, etc… are all old Celtic stuff that predates Christianity. Maybe, but there’s no record of this. The Book of Leinster dates from c. 1100, but Pope Gregory regularized the celebration in 835, some 300 years earlier. Most of what we think are ancient Celtic rituals comes from such sources as Frazer’s _Golden Bough_ dating from 1890. > **[Halloween](https://books.google.com/books?id=stWZ_UDteMIC&pg=PA22&dq=halloween%2Bchristian%2Bholy%2Bday&hl=en&ei=wCiwTu-tN8j00gGJ5bjGAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CG8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=halloween%20christian%20holy%20day&f=false)** > > Boasting a rich, complex history rooted in Celtic and Christian ritual, Halloween has evolved from ethnic celebration to a blend of street festival, fright night, and vast commercial enterprise. In this colorful history, Nicholas Rogers takes a... ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/33 "2012-10-24T12:17:14Z")
It sounds great to me. More kids off the streets and in church = more candy for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/34 "2012-10-24T12:29:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Dudes. Halloween= All Hallows Eve, aka the eve of All Saints day. It’s been a Christian holiday since the fucking sixth century. > > I will agree that renaming it “Jesusween” is silly and ridiculous. But it’s a _Roman Catholic_ holiday! The folks freaked out by Halloween find paganism & popery equally distasteful… (Then they switch to complaining about the War on Christmas–when their spiritual ancestors were the Puritans who forbade celebrating the holiday. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/35 "2012-10-24T13:52:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Maybe, but there’s no record of this. The Book of Leinster dates from c. 1100, but Pope Gregory regularized the celebration in 835, some 300 years earlier. > > Most of what we think are ancient Celtic rituals comes from such sources as Frazer’s _Golden Bough_ dating from 1890. > > [Halloween: From Pagan Ritual to Party Night - Nicholas Rogers - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=stWZ_UDteMIC&pg=PA22&dq=halloween+christian+holy+day&hl=en&ei=wCiwTu-tN8j00gGJ5bjGAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CG8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=halloween%20christian%20holy%20day&f=false) The modern stuff we do may or may not date back that far, but it’s pretty likely that the date of All Hallows Eve and All Saints Day were chosen to coincide with Autumn / Harvest festivals. Just about every other Christian holiday is chosen to coincide with other major pagan holidays and festivals (Easter, Christmas, etc…), and a lot of the old pagan stuff was co-opted to represent Christian things. For example, eating ham at Christmas is an old Norse custom, and Dec. 25th may have been the date celebrated as the birthday of Mithras in ancient Rome. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some of the things we do at Halloween are indeed pre-Christian pagan things, and considering what a sort of odd man out Halloween is relative to the other Christian holidays, I think it’s kind of likely. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/36 "2012-10-24T14:57:07Z")
Apparently some public schools have been scaling back Halloween observances because of complaints coming from a variety of different directions (all of them entertaining): [Drop the Halloween Mask! It Might Scare Someone](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/30/us/30costume.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > In a school district in Illinois, students are being encouraged to dress up as historical characters or delicious food items rather than vampires or zombies. > … > > A child dressed as a witch might pass muster, one school official said. But an ax-murderer could violate various rules. [Halloween Hits Streak Of Bad Luck in School](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12381-2004Oct30.html) > [@](#): > > Lynn said his organization gets angry calls around Halloween from pagans disturbed by public schools displaying images of witches with ugly noses, as well as from fundamentalist Christian parents who object that Halloween is promoting non-Christian faith. > … > > There is a geographical pattern to the grumbling, according to Stadelmann and others. Christian complaints come mostly from the South and Midwest, whereas Wiccan complaints are more likely to come from California and the Pacific Northwest. [Buckman School Bans Halloween Costumes](http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2011/10/13/buckman-school-bans-halloween-costumes) > [@](#): > > There are social, financial and cultural differences among our families that we must respect. The spirit of equity has led most PPS (Portland Public Schools) schools, including most elementary schools, to deemphasize the celebration of Halloween at school. > … > > “I used to work at Kelly Elementary [at SE 92nd and Foster] and the school was 40 percent Russian. The Russian kids wouldn’t come to school that day because people were dressing up and celebrating Halloween.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/37 "2012-10-24T15:29:16Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The modern stuff we do may or may not date back that far, but it’s pretty likely that the date of All Hallows Eve and All Saints Day were chosen to coincide with Autumn / Harvest festivals. Just about every other Christian holiday is chosen to coincide with other major pagan holidays and festivals (Easter, Christmas, etc…), and a lot of the old pagan stuff was co-opted to represent Christian things. > > For example, eating ham at Christmas is an old Norse custom, and Dec. 25th may have been the date celebrated as the birthday of Mithras in ancient Rome. > > It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some of the things we do at Halloween are indeed pre-Christian pagan things, and considering what a sort of odd man out Halloween is relative to the other Christian holidays, I think it’s kind of likely. Umm, no. Well, yes, sorta for Easter as after all, the Last Super was a Passover feast, thus Easter Sunday was originally calculated like Passover. We have extensively and comprehensively debunked the myth that the ancient Christians picked dec 25th due to pagan holidays (it had more to due with numerology and it being nine months after the Annunciation) , and we also have debunked that Saturnalia was dec 25th (dec 21 more often). Roman Mitraism came AFTER Christianity, if anything they cadged from the Christians. And it wasn’t on the 25th either (well, maybe sometimes as the Roman calendar was crazy). Nor was Yule. Yule is on the Solstice. Now, yes, Christian holidays often pick up the trappings of pagan or folk customs. Yule logs , Christmas trees. But from what we can tell, Jack o lanterns were supposed to represent souls in Purgatory. There is no evidence that Samhain was a holiday associated with the dead in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/38 "2012-10-24T15:33:14Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > A church I pass by on the way to work has had “FALL-O-JESUS” on its sign for a couple of weeks. I can’t tell if it’s a substitute celebration, or one of those threatening sermons about how the country is falling apart. FALL-O-JESUS? [Should have used Goldberg’s nails…](http://jewishjokes.org/2011/01/they-used-goldbergs-nails/) ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/39 "2012-10-24T15:37:43Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > I did Lot’s Wife one year. I thought about doing Lot’s Daughter the year afterwards Who hasn’t? 😛 > [@Algher](#): > > Beat me to it, though i was going to state that this sounds like a bunch of Lefty’s bitching about a non-existent War on Halloween. > > 😉 Um, if by “a bunch” you mean, “The OP of this thread,” then you might be on to something. Chill out. As to the OP, let me chime in with most of the other people who say, what’s the big deal. People who don’t celebrate Halloween the way you want to are doing something wrong? Not everybody does things the same way as you. We live in a diverse world, and will sometimes find ourselves in the minority when it comes to cultural practices. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/40 "2012-10-24T15:55:05Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > if you don’t see it that way that’s fine - you can opt out by not turning on your porch light/placing a jack-o-lantern in the window/taping a cardboard decoration to your apartment door. WTF? In your mind, these people’s only choice is to go inside and and turn off the lights, they should not be permitted to do anything else? Now if they started protesting your jack o’lantern display that would be one thing, but I don’t see how their fall festival inhibits your ability to enjoy halloween. It’s this kind of intolerance of other people’s different ideas that built up al Queada. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667.md?page=3)