# My neighborhood megachurch is holding a "fall festival" on guess what night? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667 "2012-10-23T21:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/61 "2012-10-25T03:00:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > reverse entomology Maybe it was named after an uncle of a god, or maybe an ant. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/62 "2012-10-25T03:05:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > reverse entomology Is that the study of stcesni? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/63 "2012-10-25T05:00:25Z")
:smack: I always get those two words mixed up, and spell check doesn’t help! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/64 "2012-10-25T14:39:20Z")
Here’s a useful mnemonic. Entomology | Antomology. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/65 "2012-10-25T19:42:07Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Let me guess: **at Renfair** … This just told me all I need to know about you. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/66 "2012-10-26T06:37:03Z")
Could Jesus even pass out candy? I mean, wouldn’t it just fall through His hands? Come to my neighborhood. There’s a Catholic church two streets over and the rectory passes out candy. I went to a Catholic school and while we didn’t wear out costumes TO school, we had a Halloween party at the end of the day, and changed into them after lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/67 "2012-10-26T11:42:59Z")
This definitely seems to be a fundamentalist/Protestant issue, this idea that Halloween is somehow religious, or anti-religious. A few years back, one of our neighbors didn’t mark the day at all, because (as their daughter told our kids) it was “the Devil’s birthday.” Seriously? I guess the Methodist church of my childhood never got that memo, as we had a Halloween party every year. Yes, it was mainly so we could trick-or-treat for UNICEF (remember those little orange boxes?), but also so we could dress up in our costumes, play games, and have a creepy dark funhouse where we got to touch eyeballs (grapes) and brains (spaghetti) before we had candy and treats. Oh, the devil won many souls that day, I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/68 "2012-10-26T14:14:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Could Jesus even pass out candy? I mean, wouldn’t it just fall through His hands? Only the Fun Size bars. That’s why he’s the guy on the block who passes out full-size Snickers. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/69 "2012-10-26T14:38:31Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > I can’t fathom why giving out candy is so important to you. But if it is, maybe you should move out of your creepy fundie neighborhood. I’ve lived in several midwestern cities, and all of them were crawling with kids on Halloween. Yes it seems like you moved into a neighborhood where the local custom of the ‘Halloween’ celebration is not to your liking, you think your custom should prevail for some reason. Perhaps you should also move to France and try to get them to celebrate the 4th of July ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/70 "2012-10-26T15:09:57Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > A few years back, one of our neighbors didn’t mark the day at all, because (as their daughter told our kids) it was “the Devil’s birthday.” Seriously? Yep. It’s mentioned in the Chick tract in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15625068&postcount=50) but not even Chick believes that. Similarly, my SO doesn’t do Halloween because she was raised that it “celebrates the Devil”. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_pearse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d26b3c/32.png) [@roger\_pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/71 "2012-10-26T16:01:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The modern stuff we do may or may not date back that far, but it’s pretty likely that the date of All Hallows Eve and All Saints Day were chosen to coincide with Autumn / Harvest festivals. Just about every other Christian holiday is chosen to coincide with other major pagan holidays and festivals (Easter, Christmas, etc…), and a lot of the old pagan stuff was co-opted to represent Christian things. Be very wary about all of these claims. They are often repeated online, and those who repeat them never verify them. For instance the date of Easter is, of course, derived from the date of the death of Christ, itself connected to the passover. It certainly wasn’t adjusted by anyone ever with the idea of being on some pagan date. > [@](#): > > For example, eating ham at Christmas is an old Norse custom, and Dec. 25th may have been the date celebrated as the birthday of Mithras in ancient Rome. No ancient source records any “birthday of Mithras”. I got interested some years back, and researched it. The idea actually derives from a bit of speculation in Franz Cumont’s “Textes et Monumentes”, from 1899-ish, which started modern Mithraic studies. Not even Cumont offers any evidence. As for the “old Norse custom”… erm, surely we should ask which source records this? And which source shows the transfer? If we find that in Mexico in 1 AD, people celebrated a winter festival by stuffing turkeys (I am making this up), would that prove that Christmas is really a Mexican feast? 🙂 You have to keep your scepticism firmly turned on about all this. Always ask to see the evidence. It’s never forthcoming. > [@](#): > > It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some of the things we do at Halloween are indeed pre-Christian pagan things With my sceptical hat on, I’d want to see some evidence. I suspect most of the “traditions” of this sort are like morris-men, or santa in his big red Coca-Cola livery; the product of no more than a century or so. It’s worth remembering that the Christians are really hostile to pagan borrowings. This, indeed, is why atheists take great pleasure in jeering things like “Jesus is really Mithras! Hee hee!” and the like. But these people aren’t scholars and don’t really care – it’s just a form of harassment, based on knowledge that Christians are really hostile to paganism. But, because they ARE, this means that it is quite unlikely that any recognisable pagan influence would survive, unless it could be very thoroughly depaganised. Even then, there are periods when purges happen, such as the Puritans banning Christmas, just on the off-chance that there is a pagan link. It’s certainly possible, of course. Things like the Green Man and Wayland’s Smithy are, we hope, relics out of prehistoric times. It would be nice to think so. But we need to be sceptical, especially of what we hope might be so. All the best, Roger Pearse ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/72 "2012-10-26T17:37:31Z")
Concerning the date of Christmas, the very old-fashioned [Catholic Encyclopedia](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm) mentions various pagan possibilites, but ends up thus: > [@](#): > > The present writer in inclined to think that, be the origin of the feast in East or West, and though the abundance of analogous midwinter festivals may indefinitely have helped the choice of the December date, the same instinct which set \*Natalis Invicti \*at the winter solstice will have sufficed, apart from deliberate adaptation or curious calculation, to set the Christian feast there too. So, the dead of winter is a good time to celebrate. In the same vein, the Day of the Dead has its roots in Aztec commemoration of the dead & was moved to the All Souls/All Saints days; better to Christianize the celebration than attempt to stamp it out entirely. The more retrogrades Protestants have swallowed the Pagan roots stories for _all_ the Church holidays. Their resistance to Halloween is as much anti-Catholic as anti-Pagan. [Ian Paisley](http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?rome_origins.htm): > [@](#): > > Constantine, however, did not oppose the old pagan worship of Rome; rather, he superimposed Christianity upon these pagan religions, adopting elements in both; and thus, by allowing the pagans to continue their heathen customs, he made it easy for them to adopt Christianity. The result was the Roman Catholic Church, which is a mixture of about one-third Christianity, one-third Judaism, and one-third paganism. The Roman Catholic Church thus pretends to accept most of the cardinal doctrines of Christendom, plus the holy days and priesthood copied from Judaism, and the superstitions and fetishes of paganism with its charms such as holy water, candles, and images. > > While the pretended adoption of Christianity was hailed as a great victory for the Church, it was also, ironically, the beginning of her ruin. From this date we can trace all the innumerable errors of the Roman Church - Mariolatry, the mass, purgatory, limbo, the celibacy of priesthood, adoration and worship of images, indulgences, the infallibility of the Pope, the immaculate conception of Mary, and all the other unscriptural errors. Instead of a blessing it became the downfall of the organised church. Yet all the time during those dark ages which followed there was as always the body of true believers, members of the true Church, within the framework of the rapidly corrupting hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church. If some prefer a neutered Fall Festival, good for them. Or take the kids out Trick Or Treating as you were taken; I never was, we lived in the country. Let the neo-Pagans celebrate the rites they find meaningful. (You’ve heard of Cafeteria Catholicism? The Pagans have giant banquets from which to pick their favorite dish!) Solemnly decorate the family graves for _Dia de los Muertos_ or paint satirical skeletons in the tradition of [Jose Guadalupe Posada](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_art#Jos.C3.A9_Guadalupe_Posada). Wear risque outfits & party with other consenting adults; take a cab home–or wherever you end up! Pick several of the above or none at all… ETA: [Christmas is coming](http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-content/uploads/wildmanposterlg.jpg)! ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/73 "2012-10-26T19:00:48Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Or take the kids out Trick Or Treating as you were taken; I never was, we lived in the country. A lot of the country folk around here bring their kids into town to trick or treat. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/74 "2012-10-27T00:48:28Z")
I always went to my cousins’ neighborhood, since the way mine was set up (at least where we lived when I was little), it wasn’t really ideal for trick or treating. Plus it was more fun that way, because we could all go together as a group. My dad and my uncles would take us out, and my mom and my aunts would stay back and pass out candy. My aunt liked it because she got extra help. (They live in a HUGE neighborhood). My other cousin came too, even though he lived in a big neighborhood. We always had a blast. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/75 "2012-10-27T03:32:06Z")
One fun movie to rent is _Hell House_, a documentary from 2001, about some fundy’s alternative to a Halloween Haunted House. The fundies staged scenes of “horror” about abortion and gay sex and teenage shootings and suicides and how all of that sends sinners straight to hell. The fundy in charge’s wife ran off with someone she met online, so the terrors of online hookups was a big subject in that year’s house. Oh, and the satanic pentagram at the entrance of hell? A six point Star of David. Nice. Of course, after your fun scare going through the house, you get a chance to pray with a church member and accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior. I know I’d be saying on exiting, “Jesus Christ, save me from morons like these.” ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/76 "2012-10-27T13:27:52Z")
Oh lighten up, OP. If people want to go, it’s no skin off your teeth. Plus kids tend to score more candy at churches than they do trick or treating. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/77 "2012-10-27T17:03:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I went to a Catholic school and while we didn’t wear out costumes TO school, we had a Halloween party at the end of the day, and changed into them after lunch. My (Catholic) grade school in San Diego has figured out that if you can’t beat the pagans, you can join them. On the Saturday before Halloween–today, in fact–they now sponsor a Halloween parade, closing down adjacent El Cajon Boulevard (one of the busiest streets in the city) for two miles – which normally serve as a market place for prostitutes and drugs. The word out is that if you go to Mass today, the priest doesn’t say, “Body of Christ,” when you receive Communion, but [instead he just says: BOO!](http://s18.postimage.org/ricfzkj4p/boo_poster.jpg). And on Halloween night – the church is locked up and well-guarded. No “fall festival” there. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/78 "2012-10-27T21:22:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > wiki _The modern English term “Easter” is the direct continuation of Old English Ēastre, whose role as a goddess is attested solely by Bede in the 8th century.[2]_ > > In other words, the holiday is named after a ancient name for the Month- which may or may not be named for a deity. Maybe the Bede was just making shit up and using reverse entomology . In other words, he knew that the old name for the Month was Eosturmonath, thus there must have been a Eostre. Otoh, the root word seems to come from the moon, not any particular deity. > > So yeah, it’s Old English. But there’s little evidence there was ever a deity by that name. Nor do we have _anything_ at all about her worship, if she did exist. Piffle. Ēostre happens to be the goddess of fertility, so unless you’d like to regale us with citations of the multitude of rabbits and eggs in the manger you can let this one go. Furthermore, it is absurd to dismiss Bede’s writing because he was ‘just one guy’. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667/79 "2012-10-28T05:17:47Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Piffle. Ēostre happens to be the goddess of fertility, so unless you’d like to regale us with citations of the multitude of rabbits and eggs in the manger you can let this one go. Umm, according to who? This is the ONLY original source mention of Eostre:\* Eosturmonath has a name which is now translated “Paschal month”, and which was once called after a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honour feasts were celebrated in that month. Now they designate that Paschal season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance.\* Where does it say “Fertility” in there? I will repeat myself- The Bede is the ONLY original source for any mention of Eostre at all. Everything else is made up by later sources, usually in the 1800’s or later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-neighborhood-megachurch-is-holding-a-fall-festival-on-guess-what-night/638667.md?page=3)