# My Note to President Trump on the Climate Accords 5-31-2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815 "2017-06-01T03:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/21 "2017-06-01T18:55:16Z")
One thing that the ones wanting to leave the agreement forget is that the world is not seeing this as being fake, so it is bound to cause also problems with trade when many nations decide to put some pressure on a rogue nation… > **[Leaving the Paris Agreement Would Be Indefensible](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/05/paris-agreement-trump/528621/)** > > The entire world has signed on, save only Syria and Nicaragua. It appears that Donald Trump now means to expand that group of two to include the United States of America. > [@](#): > > Pulling out of Paris would cause serious diplomatic damage. The countries of the world care about climate change. They see it as a profound threat. They recognize there is no way to meet that global threat without an effective global regime. And they understand that the Paris regime cannot work in the long run if the world’s indispensable power has left the table. The president’s exit from Paris would be read as a kind of “drop dead” to the rest of the world. Bitterness, anger, and disgust would be the wages of this careless act. As Ronald Reagan’s secretary of state, George Shultz, said recently about Paris, “[g]lobal statecraft relies on trust, reputation and credibility, which can be all too easily squandered. …\*f America fails to honor a global agreement that it helped forge, the repercussions will undercut our diplomatic priorities across the globe.” > > What is perhaps most astonishing about the possibility of withdrawal, given Trump’s business background, is that such a decision would fly in the face of nearly across-the-board support for Paris among top American companies, in sectors ranging from oil and gas to retail, chemicals, utilities, agriculture, finance, information, and autos. Business leaders know climate change is real. They know Paris is an agreement they can work with. They know having U.S. negotiators at the table to protect their interests on matters like intellectual property and trade is crucial. They know that the transition to clean energy is one of the biggest economic plays of this century, that climate change is a major driver of this transition, that the United States is perfectly positioned to lead with our unmatched culture of innovation, but that opting out of Paris will undermine this opportunity to expand markets, create jobs and build wealth. > > Against these potent reasons to stay in the Paris Agreement, the withdrawal crowd has offered up bogus legal arguments that misunderstand the agreement, but they are just excuses. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/22 "2017-06-01T19:11:13Z")
Annnnnnnnnnnnd, we’re out. ETA: [Trump talks Paris Climate Agreement in Rose Garden address -- live blog | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/01/trump-talks-paris-climate-agreement-in-rose-garden-address-live-blog.html) ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/23 "2017-06-01T19:18:49Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > America is a great nation full of ignorant savages. We don’t trust science even though it provides us with a fantastically extravagant lifestyle even among the poorest of the poor. We don’t trust government even though it helps each American maintain a fantastically extravagant lifestyle at the expense of billions of people around the world. We don’t trust foreigners even though they are the lifeblood of innovation that provides us with an extravagant lifestyle unknown to most of history and most of the rest of the world. > > In the face of this monstrously savage ignorance, maybe international agreements on climate change are not the best means by which to reduce America’s carbon emissions. Maybe there is a way to do it that is tailored to America’s savagery. After all, we’ve reduced emissions in recent years (yes, mainly due to natural gas), and renewable sources of energy have taken off. Maybe even individual states can drive the change and leave the more savage parts of America in the industrial age where they belong, rusting away. > > I’m not tied to this position but the OP did make me think. All that’s _most_ unfair. 72% of Americans believe in angels. They are responsible for all that good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/24 "2017-06-01T19:42:52Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Do you think the US pulling out of the Paris Accord will make it more likely that Germany and India would meet the targets? Or less likely? I think what the U.S. does will have very little impact on what Germany does. Or India. Or China. They need energy and will do what they need to get it, even if the U.S. signs a pact that will reduce global warming by [.05 degree C in the year 2100](http://www.lomborg.com/press-release-research-reveals-negligible-impact-of-paris-climate-promises). [This](http://www.lomborg.com/sites/lomborg.com/files/graph_3_smaller_.jpg)is a handy picture. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/25 "2017-06-01T19:49:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > … The president’s exit from Paris would be read as a kind of “drop dead” to the rest of the world. Bitterness, anger, and disgust would be the wages of this careless act. > > … > > [Leaving the Paris Agreement Would Be Indefensible - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/05/paris-agreement-trump/528621/) Sometimes I wonder if it’s possible that a person could actually _die_ of happiness. What is the effect on the heart of near-constant glee and elation? If we suddenly hear that Putin has passed, we’ll know. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/26 "2017-06-01T19:51:20Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The Climate Accords will do little to change a single temperature on a single day in a single place. Actually you’re wrong. The rate at which the earth’s tempature is rising has continued to increase and is going to keep increasing. With the Paris accord we’re literally cutting the emissions of green house gasses, by reducing the yearly average emissions we’re LITERALLY reducing the rate of which tempature rises. So, YES the climate accords does a LOT to change a single tempature on a single day. This is not an opinion, it’s an actual fact. Your making an opinion without any basis, we don’t have the technology to magically revert all the stuff we’ve done to the earth. So relative to the problem and solution, the paris accord was the best chance and option we had. So your use of “little change” is totally absurd. What on gods green earth do you have to propose that would decrease green house emissions more than paris accord. Because if you’re stating what it does doesn’t affect the enviroment, then you must have another magical solution. If not then I don’t see the point in you even spewing your ignorant opinion. > [@JBGUSA](#): > > But they will cost the U.S. and its citizens lots of money, and possibly significant growth and employment. Innovation creates jobs, money, significant growth and employment. If we invested in renewable energy, and our students. Then maybe we could become what actually made America Great, an innovator. As things are now we’re losing the race for technological innovation. China has already proven themselfs to be far superior to us in terms of technological innovation relating to energy and environment. While trump lies and says things that people want to here like “America will have the cleanest air” despite removing the clean air act. Trump says we’ll be the number 1 environmental country, yet china has beyond a doubt put america to shame. Only idiots are falling into this line of belief that a strongman 70 year old delusional incompetent crazy authoritarian billionaire gives a damn about the environment or the country. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/27 "2017-06-01T19:54:53Z")
@ **Barack Obama** : [This is the chart](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275845/1496334071785-221172.jpg) I’m seeing tossed around to illustrate the effects of the Paris Climate Accords. Is that accurate, or is it wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/28 "2017-06-01T20:04:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > @ **Barack Obama** : > > [This is the chart](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275845/1496334071785-221172.jpg) I’m seeing tossed around to illustrate the effects of the Paris Climate Accords. Is that accurate, or is it wrong? I don’t understand the chart… after googling this I still don’t understand. I’m assuming this is a right winged / ignorant misconception or understanding of how climate change works or what the accord is intended to do… The rate of which the earth’s tempature is increasing, is increasing. The paris accord was intended to slow that rate at which the earth’s tempature increases. What this comes down to is are we going to continue allowing the rate of tempature increase speed up, or are we going to try to do whatever we can to slow the rate of which the earth increases tempature. There is a reason why rex tillerson and other big oil players didn’t want pulling out the paris accord. They understand the data their companies have gathered on how they’re impacting the world. China has already worked on drastically reducing co2 emissions and is the country that will take the lead of enviromental protection in the future. We’re losing the race in technology and now enviromental protection. What would we have done had the roles been reversed and china was the bad guy, while we were the ones investing into new clean technology that also helps our energy dependency. I believe we would of cracked down on china and used the entire world to do so. So why doesn’t the reverse happen? Why does the top producer of green house emissions get a free ticket out of paris accord? The world will not last another 100 years with the type of people we have in office now. The shit has officially hit the fan with the US pulling out Paris Accord. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/29 "2017-06-01T20:09:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > @ **Barack Obama** : > > [This is the chart](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275845/1496334071785-221172.jpg) I’m seeing tossed around to illustrate the effects of the Paris Climate Accords. Is that accurate, or is it wrong? What is the source of this chart? edited to add: this chart seems to come from [this site.](http://www.ar15.com/) Is this where you normally go for discussions about the environment? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/30 "2017-06-01T20:20:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is the source of this chart? > > edited to add: this chart seems to come from [this site.](http://www.ar15.com/) > Is this where you normally go for discussions about the environment? I don’t know who originally created the chart. It’s [one of the places I go for discussion of all sorts of things](http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_1/5_General_Discussion.html). One of the active topics today is Trump withdrawing the US from the Paris Climate Accords. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/31 "2017-06-01T20:23:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know who originally created the chart. > > It’s [one of the places I go for discussion of all sorts of things](http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_1/5_General_Discussion.html). One of the active topics today is Trump withdrawing the US from the Paris Climate Accords. Have you seen this unsourced chart “tossed around” anywhere other than this somewhat-right-of-center gun forum? I haven’t seen it anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/32 "2017-06-01T20:35:53Z")
Rather than worrying about the insignificant detail of the origins of the chart, let’s talk about the issue it raises. The claim presented by the chart is that the Paris Climate Accords were only going to decrease global warming by .05 degrees Celsius. Is that true, or is it false? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/33 "2017-06-01T20:39:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Rather than worrying about the insignificant detail of the origins of the chart, let’s talk about the issue it raises. The claim presented by the chart is that the Paris Climate Accords were only going to decrease global warming by .05 degrees Celsius. Is that true, or is it false? Insignificant? If we we do not know the source of this information, then it raises no issues at all-_It is trash_. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/34 "2017-06-01T20:43:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Insignificant? If we we do not know the source of this information, then it raises no issues at all-_It is trash_. Yeah, what if we treated everything like “who cares who said it”… Like… Say… Leaks about Donald Trump? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/35 "2017-06-01T20:46:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Insignificant? If we we do not know the source of this information, then it raises no issues at all-_It is trash_. It appears that [this is the source of the information](http://www.lomborg.com/press-release-research-reveals-negligible-impact-of-paris-climate-promises). > [@](#): > > A new peer-reviewed paper by Dr. Bjorn Lomborg published in the Global Policy journal measures the actual impact of all significant climate promises made ahead of the Paris climate summit. > > Governments have publicly outlined their post-2020 climate commitments in the build-up to the December’s meeting. These promises are known as “Intended Nationally Determined Contributions” (INDCs). > > Dr. Lomborg’s research reveals: > > The climate impact of all Paris INDC promises is minuscule: if we measure the impact of every nation fulfilling every promise by 2030, the total temperature reduction will be 0.048°C (0.086°F) by 2100. > > Even if we assume that these promises would be extended for another 70 years, there is still little impact: if every nation fulfills every promise by 2030, and continues to fulfill these promises faithfully until the end of the century, and there is no ‘CO₂ leakage’ to non-committed nations, the entirety of the Paris promises will reduce temperature rises by just 0.17°C (0.306°F) by 2100. > > US climate policies, in the most optimistic circumstances, fully achieved and adhered to throughout the century, will reduce global temperatures by 0.031°C (0.057°F) by 2100. Do you know if Dr. Lomborg is right or wrong? Do you know if anyone else has put out an estimate of the expected effects of the Paris Climate Accords? ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/36 "2017-06-01T20:50:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Rather than worrying about the insignificant detail of the origins of the chart, let’s talk about the issue it raises. The claim presented by the chart is that the Paris Climate Accords were only going to decrease global warming by .05 degrees Celsius. Is that true, or is it false? If the climate accord can only decrease the projected tempatures in 2030 by 0.05% then what is your point? If you have NOTHING to propose in place of it that would help decrease tempature more, then why are you implying that the pulling out the climate accord was in anyway good for the climate? If you don’t have a solution, you don’t have a right to tear up our current solution. The most we could do is regulate our emissions a little bit more, and attempt to prevent green house emissions spiraling out of control. The level of understanding people have for this threat is on par with nuclear warfare. Even the big oil companies like Exxon know that we literally can’t afford to spew out more and more green house emissions without any regulation intended to meet a specific goal. Paris accord gave us that goal, even if we couldn’t reach it we could at least try, And if someone like china does reach it, then they get all the props for it and become the environmental superpower of the future. It could be america to lead the world but instead because of conservatives and right winged extremists, we’ll fall behind just like we are in technology. So both ideas of protecting America, and protecting the world are ensured under the paris agreement. We had the chance to lead the world in environmental protection, and that’s a huge bonus to how the world views us. I can’t comprehend the degree of stupidity behind pulling out the paris accord. The next 4 years will make or break the next 40. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/37 "2017-06-01T20:52:46Z")
Also what about the rising sea levels, what about the ph levels? What about the amount of ice in the north pole? What about the amount of water in the south pole? Do you really think that single chart refutes the entire paris accord and justifies trump pulling out? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/38 "2017-06-01T20:54:26Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > If you don’t have a solution, you don’t have a right to tear up our current solution. I’m not tearing up anything, but apparently the President does have this power. > [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > … the environmental superpower of the future. That doesn’t sound like a title with many tangible benefits associated with it. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/39 "2017-06-01T20:56:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It appears that [this is the source of the information](http://www.lomborg.com/press-release-research-reveals-negligible-impact-of-paris-climate-promises). > > Do you know if Dr. Lomborg is right or wrong? Do you know if anyone else has put out an estimate of the expected effects of the Paris Climate Accords? That person’s first pages on google mention them stating Climate Change is not the most important issue facing the world… That alone disqualifies anything he does as it will be heavily influenced under his bias misunderstanding of science. IT appears their entire career there is reports of Psuedo science, and “appears to have no basis in fact” I don’t take this chart seriously anymore. I considered it may be true as off at it seemed, now I’m deeming it worthless crap. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815/40 "2017-06-01T20:57:00Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Also what about the rising sea levels, what about the ph levels? What about the amount of ice in the north pole? What about the amount of water in the south pole? > > Do you really think that single chart refutes the entire paris accord and justifies trump pulling out? It sounds like the Paris Accords weren’t going to do much of anything to significantly alter the current course of sea levels / pH levels / ice in the north pole. If that’s the case, I have a hard time caring much. What’s the word they use nowadays? Nothingburger? It sounds like the Paris Accords were a nothingburger. Is that view inaccurate? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-note-to-president-trump-on-the-climate-accords-5-31-2017/787815.md?page=3)