# My old friend just went to jail for killing his baby. how would you feel? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 7, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939 "2011-10-07T21:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mister\_mistro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@mister\_mistro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_mistro)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/1 "2011-10-07T21:08:03Z")
I just found out today, that yesterday, a guy used to hang out with every day for like two years went to jail for killing his baby. I knew his wife too, and it is so maddening to listen to people talk about this guy like he was the scum of the earth. They have no idea what they are talking about. He was just a normal guy, who happened to like anime a lot. Not sure if that is relevant…😕 My question is how would you react to this if your friend did something like this? ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/2 "2011-10-07T21:11:07Z")
Depends. How did he kill his baby? Accident? Mistake? Neglect? Malice? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/3 "2011-10-07T21:17:40Z")
> [@mister\_mistro](#): > > He was just a normal guy, who happened to like anime a lot. Uh, what? ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/4 "2011-10-07T21:25:28Z")
> [@mister\_mistro](#): > > I just found out today, that yesterday, a guy used to hang out with every day for like two years went to jail for killing his baby. I knew his wife too, and it is so maddening to listen to people talk about this guy like he was the scum of the earth. They have no idea what they are talking about. He was just a normal guy, who happened to like anime a lot. Not sure if that is relevant…😕 > > My question is how would you react to this if your friend did something like this? Umm, _what?_ Killing babies is rarely a good or benign thing. It is almost always an abhorrent and awful thing. You need to explain the circumstances and what the fuck liking anime a lot has to do with anything. Moving to IMHO in 10…9…8…7… ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/5 "2011-10-07T21:45:36Z")
Liking anime has nothing to do with the general opinion that someone who would kill his own child is SCUM. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/6 "2011-10-07T22:07:36Z")
[moderating] Moved to IMHO. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/7 "2011-10-07T22:37:10Z")
I’m assuming it wasn’t accidental ? I’d feel pretty repulsed by his actions, bye bye friendship. My best friends father many years ago had a good friend, while in a heated arguement with his wife. Took a hatchet to his hand on the table severing some fingers. He took the hatchet from her and killed her with it. He called for my friends father to come visit him in prison. He wanted nothing to do with him. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/8 "2011-10-07T22:42:01Z")
Without knowing any of the circumstances of this particular case: As a parent myself, I know that I’ve had close calls through momentary lapses of attention. Things that turned out fine, but could have gone very very wrong if circumstances had been slightly different. So if this is a case of “forgot that the baby was in the car” or something, then man, I sympathize. You can be a good person and a good parent who makes one mistake, and you will forever be looked as scum. It doesn’t excuse the mistake, but I imagine that living with the guilt is the worst punishment you can have. Of course, if the circumstances are more like “treated the kid like a punching bag while acting our DragonBall Z” then forget it, he deserves all the scorn he gets and then some. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/9 "2011-10-07T22:42:02Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Uh, what? +1 ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/10 "2011-10-07T22:45:31Z")
Interesting that the OP talks about this guy only in the past tense…“used to hang out with,” “…knew his wife”, “was just a normal guy…” I would _maybe_ have some sympathy for someone who unwittingly ran over his child in the driveway. Maybe, some, depending. I am really hoping that\*\* mister mistro\*\* comes back with some sort of coherent explanation for the OP, because as it stands: he is scum and off with his head. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/11 "2011-10-07T22:57:52Z")
Yeah we kind of need some detail here, OP. If the father left the child in a car on a hot day, I think I could work up a nice balance of pity to go with my scorn. If the father shook the child to death because she was interrupting his World of Warcraft time, then I would hope he rots in hell, even if he was a formerly good friend of mine. You can have positive feelings about the good times you had with such a person, all the while realizing that person became (or always was) a piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/12 "2011-10-07T23:05:29Z")
**mister\_mistro** , what you’re missing out on is that there are very, very few actions as universally condemned as causing the death of a child - whether by accident, misfortune, neglect, or intention. Children, even among those who joke that they like kids plenty (fried), are considered a special category. They have no ability to defend themselves. They can’t run away. If they’re young enough, they can’t even _tell_ anyone they’ve been hurt. You don’t give a lot of information. You say he was sentenced to two years for causing the death of his child. If it had been a purely accidental death, after investigation, he would have received a great amount of sympathy and support. The fact that the law became involved means that he was somehow at fault for the child’s death. You didn’t mention if there’d been a trial. Usually there’s not. Most people charged in the death of a child understand that a jury is going to want to punish someone (because babies are NOT supposed to die, and if one does, then SOMEBODY must be to blame), so they opt for a plea agreement and get a shorter sentence than if they’d gone to trial, been found guilty, and were sentenced by the judge. Two years is actually not very long when it involves the death of a child. That tells me that he was not primarily responsible for the child’s death (murder 1, murder 2, manslaughter, or negligent homicide), but played some role, and if he hadn’t acted (or neglected to act) as he did, the child would still be alive. So, I’m thinking that perhaps he didn’t take the child to the ER when the child was clearly sick. Or perhaps he left something toxic or dangerous where the child could get to it - like drain cleaner or a loaded weapon or a swimming pool without a gate. Or maybe he was in a car accident, the child was killed, and it turned out that he had not put the child in the legally mandated car seat. It could just be that he was careless or preoccupied. It could be that he really didn’t care, and even if the danger of his actions were pointed out to him, he still wouldn’t care and wouldn’t have changed his behavior. It’s impossible for an outsider to say. But no matter what the circumstances are, a child is dead because of him. In the eyes of nearly every single human society on Earth, that is an unparalleled condemnation of character. People put themselves in harm’s way and sometimes die to protect a child - even one they aren’t related to. It is a biological imperative and an unquestioned assumption - you do not harm or allow a child to come to harm. Any person who does so is immediately considered bad, worthless, or even evil. To you, your friend is a decent guy, someone you’ve shared interests and time with. You have knowledge of him as a day-to-day person. You have history. It’s understandable that you would want to defend him. The trouble is, what he did is not defensible. Short of some bleak hypothetical mercy killing, there is no reason, no excuse, no alibi that will redeem him from his actions. It doesn’t matter how “normal” he seemed to you. Normal people do not kill children. To kill a child is to, by definition, be a bad person. A child is dead because of something your friend did or did not do. You haven’t given any background, so maybe there are extenuating circumstances, but the fact that he’s been sentenced to prison time means he bears some culpability. On hearing this, the vast majority of people are going to decide that he is the scum of the Earth. Why? Because that’s the only kind of person who would cause or let a child die. It sounds like you haven’t communicated with him since you heard the news. If you are so assured of your friend’s character and the quality of his humanity and so bothered by the judgments of those who don’t know him, the best advice I can offer is to get in touch with his wife and offer your support. Visit him in prison. Urge him to seek counseling. If he is the good person you believe, he must be wracked with guilt. He will need your friendship desperately. If you know him so very well, stop worrying about the judgment of others, and don’t try to defend him, because that’s just going to taint you as well. Spend your energy being his friend and helping him through this. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/13 "2011-10-07T23:17:38Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Liking anime has nothing to do with the general opinion that someone who would kill his own child is SCUM. I’m afraid you’re mistaken there. It’s a well-known and incontrovertible fact that weaboos are dangerous. This post only verifies what I’ve been trying to tell people here all along. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/14 "2011-10-07T23:30:13Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > …You don’t give a lot of information. You say he was sentenced to two years for causing the death of his child. If it had been a purely accidental death, after investigation, he would have received a great amount of sympathy and support. The fact that the law became involved means that he was somehow at fault for the child’s death… No, he says he hung out with him for two years. > [@](#): > > a guy used to hang out with every day for like two years went to jail for killing his baby. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/15 "2011-10-08T00:24:52Z")
Great. Frickin’ brain transposing words and completely altering the meaning of a sentence. So, basically, your buddy’s in jail for the death of a child, and it could be anything up to and including Murder 1 with special circumstances (child under the age of 5, sexual abuse, other bad things). Yeah, the people around you are going to consider him the scum of the Earth. They stand a very good chance of being right. ---
**Author:** ![highrollinwooded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/71c47a/32.png) [@highrollinwooded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/highrollinwooded)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/16 "2011-10-08T00:45:18Z")
I am gonna say that you,my friend, are making some poor chioices in picking friends! A “real” friend does NOT kill his kid…just sayin… ---
**Author:** ![highrollinwooded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/71c47a/32.png) [@highrollinwooded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/highrollinwooded)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/17 "2011-10-08T00:46:32Z")
XX ---
**Author:** ![highrollinwooded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/71c47a/32.png) [@highrollinwooded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/highrollinwooded)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/18 "2011-10-08T00:49:06Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > **mister\_mistro** , what you’re missing out on is that there are very, very few actions as universally condemned as causing the death of a child - whether by accident, misfortune, neglect, or intention. Children, even among those who joke that they like kids plenty (fried), are considered a special category. They have no ability to defend themselves. They can’t run away. If they’re young enough, they can’t even _tell_ anyone they’ve been hurt. > > You don’t give a lot of information. You say he was sentenced to two years for causing the death of his child. If it had been a purely accidental death, after investigation, he would have received a great amount of sympathy and support. The fact that the law became involved means that he was somehow at fault for the child’s death. > > You didn’t mention if there’d been a trial. Usually there’s not. Most people charged in the death of a child understand that a jury is going to want to punish someone (because babies are NOT supposed to die, and if one does, then SOMEBODY must be to blame), so they opt for a plea agreement and get a shorter sentence than if they’d gone to trial, been found guilty, and were sentenced by the judge. > > Two years is actually not very long when it involves the death of a child. That tells me that he was not primarily responsible for the child’s death (murder 1, murder 2, manslaughter, or negligent homicide), but played some role, and if he hadn’t acted (or neglected to act) as he did, the child would still be alive. So, I’m thinking that perhaps he didn’t take the child to the ER when the child was clearly sick. Or perhaps he left something toxic or dangerous where the child could get to it - like drain cleaner or a loaded weapon or a swimming pool without a gate. Or maybe he was in a car accident, the child was killed, and it turned out that he had not put the child in the legally mandated car seat. > > It could just be that he was careless or preoccupied. It could be that he really didn’t care, and even if the danger of his actions were pointed out to him, he still wouldn’t care and wouldn’t have changed his behavior. It’s impossible for an outsider to say. But no matter what the circumstances are, a child is dead because of him. > > In the eyes of nearly every single human society on Earth, that is an unparalleled condemnation of character. People put themselves in harm’s way and sometimes die to protect a child - even one they aren’t related to. It is a biological imperative and an unquestioned assumption - you do not harm or allow a child to come to harm. Any person who does so is immediately considered bad, worthless, or even evil. > > To you, your friend is a decent guy, someone you’ve shared interests and time with. You have knowledge of him as a day-to-day person. You have history. It’s understandable that you would want to defend him. The trouble is, what he did is not defensible. Short of some bleak hypothetical mercy killing, there is no reason, no excuse, no alibi that will redeem him from his actions. It doesn’t matter how “normal” he seemed to you. Normal people do not kill children. To kill a child is to, by definition, be a bad person. > > A child is dead because of something your friend did or did not do. You haven’t given any background, so maybe there are extenuating circumstances, but the fact that he’s been sentenced to prison time means he bears some culpability. On hearing this, the vast majority of people are going to decide that he is the scum of the Earth. Why? Because that’s the only kind of person who would cause or let a child die. > > It sounds like you haven’t communicated with him since you heard the news. If you are so assured of your friend’s character and the quality of his humanity and so bothered by the judgments of those who don’t know him, the best advice I can offer is to get in touch with his wife and offer your support. Visit him in prison. Urge him to seek counseling. If he is the good person you believe, he must be wracked with guilt. He will need your friendship desperately. > > If you know him so very well, stop worrying about the judgment of others, and don’t try to defend him, because that’s just going to taint you as well. Spend your energy being his friend and helping him through this. WOW! Are you psychotherapist? If not, you should be! I was blown away by your writing! I am NOT being saracstic, either!! ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/19 "2011-10-08T05:50:15Z")
Teacher. Realized in my second week of teaching that many of my students didn’t get some really basic - like how to be a human being in a group of other human beings without getting killed - stuff because no one had ever explained it to them. I learned very quickly I needed to be able to explain stuff most people never think about (“Of course someone who killed his kid is the scum of the Earth!”) because they were properly socialized as children. (Not saying that the OP wasn’t properly socialized as a child, but . . . something’s definitely off.) And thank you for the compliment. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/20 "2011-10-08T06:28:06Z")
> [@highrollinwooded](#): > > WOW! Are you psychotherapist? If not, you should be! I was blown away by your writing! I am NOT being saracstic, either!! +1 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939.md?page=2)