# My old friend just went to jail for killing his baby. how would you feel? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 7, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939 "2011-10-07T21:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/61 "2011-10-08T19:52:39Z")
I’m still…STILL, waiting for more details and clarification from the OP. Because without knowing the circumstances, it is impossible to determine whether this person is a merely negligent, “Oopsie I Forgot My Baby Was in the Car Seat For Five Hours While I Was Getting My Nails Done” bad parent or a “Man Beats 2-Year-Old Child to Death for Peeing His Pants” bad parent. Actually both are equally noxious and candidates for spaying or neutering in my book, but parent number 1 might, just might, have a shred of an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/62 "2011-10-08T20:34:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So there’s no difference between forgetting a baby in the car, and the baby dies of heat stroke or whatever, and intending to toss the baby though a TV set but not intending the baby to actually die? Same crime in your view? Perhaps the _degree_ of abuse resulting in death is different but the _nature_ of the crime is the same in both cases. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/63 "2011-10-08T20:45:07Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > I’m still…STILL, waiting for more details and clarification from the OP. > > Because without knowing the circumstances, it is impossible to determine whether this person is a merely negligent, “Oopsie I Forgot My Baby Was in the Car Seat For Five Hours While I Was Getting My Nails Done” bad parent or a “Man Beats 2-Year-Old Child to Death for Peeing His Pants” bad parent. > > Actually both are equally noxious and candidates for spaying or neutering in my book, but parent number 1 might, just might, have a shred of an excuse. I guess you’ll have to call the next case, Your Honor. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/64 "2011-10-08T20:59:08Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The word mother should never be used in context for anyone that would have a child irresponsibily. Oh, and adopters are far more viler in my opinion than so-called mothers. So Nadya Suleman is a better mother than Angelina Jolie! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/65 "2011-10-08T22:34:15Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > My response would depend on the circumstances. Did he kill the baby in a fit of rage? Okay, he needs to serve his sentence and get some help after coming out. Did he kill the baby because he never wanted children and his wife, girlfriend, or one-night stand refused to get an abortion and insisted on having the baby? I would give him a fracking medal and tell the so-called mother what happened was everything she deserved. Murder is illegal–so don’t do it. And don’t advocate it again anywhere on this message board. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/66 "2011-10-08T23:08:42Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Uh, what? This seems to have tripped several people up so let me explain. It can be very difficult for friends and family of publicized criminals to deal with the fact that society sees only one facet of the person: specifically, the crime. To everyone else he’s a baby-killer but to mister\_mistro he’s the fun guy who liked anime. I hope this helped. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/67 "2011-10-09T02:17:09Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > forgetting a baby in a car is not the same as **abusing one to death.**. > > Bolding mine. > > Forgetting a baby in a car is gross negligence, a clear form of child abuse. Now leaving that baby in a car until they die is perpetuating that abuse until the death of the child. So I draw no distinctions between the phrases “forgetting a baby in the car and the baby dies” and “abusing a baby to death”. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html) Please read that article. As a mother, it is heart-wrenching, and it completely changed my understanding of this issue. Sometimes horrible, horrible things can happen, and truly, it was an accident. The parents who forget they have children in the car (NOT parents who leave their kids there on purpose) are in many ways victims as well; they are not abusers. I know you have a deep well of empathy. I think you may find this enlightening. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/68 "2011-10-09T03:28:08Z")
miss elizabeth - I’ve got \*some \*sympathy but it’s limited. I’ve got an autistic child, so we’re on point an absurd amount of time. I just don’t people so wrapped up in their own life as to have this horrible misfortune occur. To the OP, come back and bring a little detail please. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/69 "2011-10-09T05:32:45Z")
A girl I was friends with in jr. high murdered her three children by locking them in a room and setting it on fire. [Indiana Judicial Branch: Appellate Decisions](http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/archive/03040401.ehf.html) It was horrifying and I was shocked to hear it, but this girl definitely had a bizarre set of circumstances growing up, and some abuse that probably screwed her up. Still, you never expect to hear something like that about a person you spent time with at any point in your life. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_mistro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@mister\_mistro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_mistro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/70 "2011-10-09T06:53:59Z")
wow, too many post to read. The guy I am talking about used to be my friend, he got married and got his own life. He killed his baby by hugging it untill it stoped breathing. Thats it really. it is just stupid to hear people call him the scum of the earth. There are so many reasons and contrubiting problems to why he did what he did. I do not supprt what he did, and frankly i side with everyone else on the fact that it is wrong. calling him a monster because he lost it is just a way for another person to make thereself more ethically acceptable by pointing out his flaws. it is iggnorent. I dont hear people calling americans the scum of the earth(at least not in america) because people sit back while our country does horrible things in our names. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/71 "2011-10-09T07:56:15Z")
> [@mister\_mistro](#): > > He killed his baby by hugging it untill it stoped breathing. Thats it really. > > it is just stupid to hear people call him the scum of the earth. There are so many reasons and contrubiting problems to why he did what he did. I do not supprt what he did, and frankly i side with everyone else on the fact that it is wrong. calling him a monster because he lost it is just a way for another person to make thereself more ethically acceptable by pointing out his flaws. He didn’t “just lose it”, nobody ever really does: you pick when it is safe for you to hurt someone who can’t hurt you back. Nobody ever “just loses it” with the biker who is twice their size or the cop who pulls them over, they save it for the wife or the kid when they get home. Saying that he lost control is just a copout; he made a choice to surrender it when it was safe for him to do so, and he chose to kill a child. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/72 "2011-10-09T09:31:09Z")
> [@mister\_mistro](#): > > He killed his baby by hugging it untill it stoped breathing. Thats it really. … “hugging it until it stopped breathing” He suffocated his own child in his arms. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/73 "2011-10-09T12:40:49Z")
> [@mister\_mistro](#): > > He killed his baby by hugging **it** untill **it** stoped breathing. Thats it really. (my bolding). A baby is not an “it.” Cockroaches or spiders are “its,” but a baby is “he” or “she.” You’re not helping his cause. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/74 "2011-10-09T12:49:57Z")
**mister\_mistro** , your friend is the scum of the Earth. **ZPG Zealot** , your opinions are as fucked-up as I would have expected. **mister\_mistro** , whether deliberately or not, you are leaving waaaaay too much out of this description. One does not just hug one’s child until he/she stops breathing. If you want sympathy for your friend you will need to prove that he has some pretty serious psychological problems before he does not quality as the scum of the Earth. (And that reference to anime - that’s now in the dictionary under _non sequitur_.) Edited to add: Also, what **TokyoPlayer** said. ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/75 "2011-10-09T12:51:55Z")
From the description of the crime, it appears that [this murder](http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/10/07/gilbert-police-arrest-father-in-death-of-2-year-old-son/) may be the one in question. So he strangled his struggling son with his bare hands at least partly to get back at his wife. Gee, wonder why people think he is scum? ---
**Author:** ![just\_plain\_nutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9a140/32.png) [@just\_plain\_nutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_plain_nutz)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/76 "2011-10-09T13:15:38Z")
> [@Baracus](#): > > From the description of the crime, it appears that [this murder](http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/10/07/gilbert-police-arrest-father-in-death-of-2-year-old-son/) may be the one in question. So he strangled his struggling son with his bare hands at least partly to get back at his wife. Gee, wonder why people think he is scum? If this is the guy then he should be executed within a week. No trial, no appeal, he addmitted it now give him what justice calls for. EXECUTION.. And it should be painful and public… If it was in America then this child probably would be alive.. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/77 "2011-10-09T13:29:43Z")
Wow… I don’t even like kids and I think your friend is the scum of the earth and deserves to fry. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/78 "2011-10-09T13:44:59Z")
> [@mister\_mistro](#): > > wow, too many post to read. > > The guy I am talking about used to be my friend, he got married and got his own life. > > He killed his baby by hugging it untill it stoped breathing. Thats it really. > > it is just stupid to hear people call him the scum of the earth. There are so many reasons and contrubiting problems to why he did what he did. I do not supprt what he did, and frankly i side with everyone else on the fact that it is wrong. calling him a monster because he lost it is just a way for another person to make thereself more ethically acceptable by pointing out his flaws. it is iggnorent. I dont hear people calling americans the scum of the earth(at least not in america) because people sit back while our country does horrible things in our names. I’m less inclined to worry about the “raw deal” the poor, misunderstood father :rolleyes: is getting and give my heart and sympathies to the bereaved mother that will never be the same and sweet baby that lost his life at the hands (literally) of his father. ---
**Author:** ![Ludy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Ludy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/79 "2011-10-09T13:52:55Z")
You say hugged **it** until **it** stopped breathing, I say killed a defenceless human being with his bare hands to get revenge on his wife.\* \*If that story is the one in question ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/80 "2011-10-09T14:49:38Z")
> [@mister\_mistro](#): > > wow, too many post to read. > > The guy I am talking about used to be my friend, he got married and got his own life. > > He killed his baby by hugging it untill it stoped breathing. Thats it really. > > it is just stupid to hear people call him the scum of the earth. Well to be fair you weren’t really clear on the details. I don’t know how any rational adult can hug a child to death unless he has some sort of Lenny from Mice and Men thing going on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939.md?page=5)