# My old friend just went to jail for killing his baby. how would you feel? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 7, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939 "2011-10-07T21:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/101 "2011-10-09T23:28:58Z")
**mister\_mistro** , what your friend did was commit first, maybe second degree murder of a child by [compressive\_asphyxia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressive_asphyxia#Compressive_asphyxia). Here are some things I’d like you to understand about what your friend did: - causing someone to die by preventing them from breathing does not take seconds. It takes minutes. Anywhere from three to seven minutes. If this does not sound like a long time to you, I suggest you get a pot of ice water, put your hand in it and hold it there as long as you can. Most people can only do it for a minute or two, because the cold hurts so much. - suffocation _hurts_. Maybe you’re not aware of this. The need for air is referred to in medical terminology as “air hunger”, and it is a thousand times stronger than food hunger. During the Holocaust, when the Nazis murdered Jews by piping in carbon monoxide or cyanide gas into a closed room filled with people, afterwards, those who opened the doors found the entire doorway filled with trampled, dead bodies - people who had climbed on and crushed each other in a desperate bid to get some air. During suffocation, people claw hard enough to tear their nails out. They froth at the mouth. Their hearts beat so hard that tiny blood vessels burst from the blood pressure. Your friend didn’t “hug” his child until his child died. Your friend squeezed his son’s chest until the little boy’s lungs could not draw air in, and he did that for a minimum of three minutes - 180 seconds, twice the time most people can keep their hand in a bucket of ice water. He did it while his little boy struggled, while his little boy’s lips turned blue and then purple, while bright red dots of blood appeared under the skin of his face, neck, chest, and arms. While his son was dying - while your friend squeezed his chest so hard he couldn’t breathe - that little boy most likely vomited, wet his pants, and emptied his bowels. These are all last ditch attempts by the body to escape death by distracting the killer, or they are symptoms of death as the body loses control over itself. I wouldn’t be surprised if that little boy were crying the whole time as well. And the whole time your friend was doing this - purposefully squeezing his son’s chest so he couldn’t breathe, feeling his baby struggle, seeing his baby turn blue, seeing red spots show up on his baby’s face, arms, chest, and neck, feeling his baby vomit, pee, and shit his pants - he admits he was thinking about how his wife had done mean things to him, and how his child wouldn’t take a nap. **mister\_mistro** , your friend is not the scum of the earth. He is a monster. If it were up to me, I would take him into a tiled room, have him kneel, and I personally would put a gun to the back of his head and pull the trigger. Then I would run water through a hose to clean his brains off the walls and the floor and wash them down the drains. I’d take what was left of his body out where the coyotes and ravens and other carrion eaters could benefit from his body and leave his bones out to bleach in the sun, unmarked, and hopefully forgotten forever. And it would still be more than he deserved. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/102 "2011-10-09T23:37:22Z")
Points we can all agree on: Killing babies is bad, mmkay? Don’t kill babies. (Thanks gonzomax) Killing a baby is really no worse than killing an adult (except in rare self-defense or war or other exceptions), but for some innate reason, feels more terrible. Otherwise good people can do horrible things, even baby killers have normal interests and friendships. And the most important point we can agree on: if you don’t want babies to be murdered, stop making babies! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/103 "2011-10-09T23:38:58Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Sorry, didn’t see this before I posted last. It’s just that I have seen too many lives and families ruined by unwanted children that it just makes my blood boil. So it’s fair to take it out on the kid? Jesus Christ, woman, what the FUCK is wrong with you? **mister\_mistro** , your friend is one fucked up dude. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/104 "2011-10-09T23:42:45Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > **mister\_mistro** , what your friend did was commit first, maybe second degree murder of a child by [compressive\_asphyxia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressive_asphyxia#Compressive_asphyxia). > > Here are some things I’d like you to understand about what your friend did: > > - causing someone to die by preventing them from breathing does not take seconds. It takes minutes. Anywhere from three to seven minutes. If this does not sound like a long time to you, I suggest you get a pot of ice water, put your hand in it and hold it there as long as you can. Most people can only do it for a minute or two, because the cold hurts so much. > > - suffocation _hurts_. Maybe you’re not aware of this. The need for air is referred to in medical terminology as “air hunger”, and it is a thousand times stronger than food hunger. During the Holocaust, when the Nazis murdered Jews by piping in carbon monoxide or cyanide gas into a closed room filled with people, afterwards, those who opened the doors found the entire doorway filled with trampled, dead bodies - people who had climbed on and crushed each other in a desperate bid to get some air. During suffocation, people claw hard enough to tear their nails out. They froth at the mouth. Their hearts beat so hard that tiny blood vessels burst from the blood pressure. > > Your friend didn’t “hug” his child until his child died. > > Your friend squeezed his son’s chest until the little boy’s lungs could not draw air in, and he did that for a minimum of three minutes - 180 seconds, twice the time most people can keep their hand in a bucket of ice water. He did it while his little boy struggled, while his little boy’s lips turned blue and then purple, while bright red dots of blood appeared under the skin of his face, neck, chest, and arms. > > While his son was dying - while your friend squeezed his chest so hard he couldn’t breathe - that little boy most likely vomited, wet his pants, and emptied his bowels. These are all last ditch attempts by the body to escape death by distracting the killer, or they are symptoms of death as the body loses control over itself. I wouldn’t be surprised if that little boy were crying the whole time as well. > > And the whole time your friend was doing this - purposefully squeezing his son’s chest so he couldn’t breathe, feeling his baby struggle, seeing his baby turn blue, seeing red spots show up on his baby’s face, arms, chest, and neck, feeling his baby vomit, pee, and shit his pants - he admits he was thinking about how his wife had done mean things to him, and how his child wouldn’t take a nap. > > **mister\_mistro** , your friend is not the scum of the earth. He is a monster. > > If it were up to me, I would take him into a tiled room, have him kneel, and I personally would put a gun to the back of his head and pull the trigger. Then I would run water through a hose to clean his brains off the walls and the floor and wash them down the drains. I’d take what was left of his body out where the coyotes and ravens and other carrion eaters could benefit from his body and leave his bones out to bleach in the sun, unmarked, and hopefully forgotten forever. > > And it would still be more than he deserved. Oh god. I’m sorry I read that. Especially because I have relatives who were probably murdered like that in the camps. That poor little boy. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > So it’s fair to take it out on the kid? Jesus Christ, woman, what the FUCK is wrong with you? > > **mister\_mistro** , your friend is one fucked up dude. I think we should all agree to stop interacting with her when she writes things that no sane human being would think. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/105 "2011-10-09T23:43:12Z")
Don’t engage it Guin. All that will happen is that you will end up getting warned while it continues yanking on your chain. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/106 "2011-10-10T01:31:54Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Oh god. I’m sorry I read that. Especially because I have relatives who were probably murdered like that in the camps. That poor little boy. I’m sorry, **LavenderBlue**. I probably should have private messaged him. I didn’t realize I knew that much about the subject until I wrote those paragraphs in the hopes that he would understand exactly what his friend had done - that it wasn’t like hugging a stuffed animal absentmindedly or even slapping a child in a fit of anger. It was something that took an active decision and then the . . . ability to continue doing so in the face of that little boy’s suffering for an extended period of time. In the time since I wrote that I realized I have completely lost my good mood and am teetering dangerously over a very bad depression. My imagination is all too vivid in these instances. I would not inflict that on you for the world. **mister\_mistro** , do the world a favor. If you don’t understand at this point how what your friend did was wrong, and how people are be absolutely repelled, disgusted, and enraged by his action, do not EVER have children. EVER. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/107 "2011-10-10T01:39:33Z")
**phouka** - that was chilling. And yes, the “friend” is a monster. No matter that he might have been a fun, regular guy as a friend - I couldn’t maintain a relationship with anyone who did something like this to his own little boy. The only _possible_ excuse for it is some sort of psychotic break, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. It was an abbhorent, unforgivable thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/108 "2011-10-10T01:53:55Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I’m sorry, **LavenderBlue**. I probably should have private messaged him. I didn’t realize I knew that much about the subject until I wrote those paragraphs in the hopes that he would understand exactly what his friend had done - that it wasn’t like hugging a stuffed animal absentmindedly or even slapping a child in a fit of anger. It was something that took an active decision and then the . . . ability to continue doing so in the face of that little boy’s suffering for an extended period of time. > > In the time since I wrote that I realized I have completely lost my good mood and am teetering dangerously over a very bad depression. My imagination is all too vivid in these instances. I would not inflict that on you for the world. > > **mister\_mistro** , do the world a favor. If you don’t understand at this point how what your friend did was wrong, and how people are be absolutely repelled, disgusted, and enraged by his action, do not EVER have children. > > EVER. No apologies needed. Yours was a very well written and informative post that eloquently expressed what many of us are thinking about this case. I am sorry you feel bad because of what I wrote in response. That was not my intention. I have a baby so I probably should not have opened this thread in the first place as I am probably hypersensitive and hormonal. What this guy did and what **ZPG** wrote in response are almost too awful for most people to contemplate. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/109 "2011-10-10T02:12:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So it’s fair to take it out on the kid? Jesus Christ, woman, what the FUCK is wrong with you? > > **mister\_mistro** , your friend is one fucked up dude. You have to triage the situation. If the birth of one baby destroys multiple lives, I weigh it as a positive if that baby doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/110 "2011-10-10T02:14:34Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > If it were up to me, I would take him into a tiled room, have him kneel, and I personally would put a gun to the back of his head and pull the trigger. Then I would run water through a hose to clean his brains off the walls and the floor and wash them down the drains. I’d take what was left of his body out where the coyotes and ravens and other carrion eaters could benefit from his body and leave his bones out to bleach in the sun, unmarked, and hopefully forgotten forever. > > And it would still be more than he deserved. I thought killing people was suppose to be bad, mkay. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/111 "2011-10-10T02:21:38Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You have to triage the situation. If the birth of one baby destroys multiple lives, I weigh it as a positive if that baby doesn’t exist. It takes two to tango. He should have kept it zipped. MURDER ain’t the answer, sweet cheeks. Apparently adoption is evil, but murder isn’t. Good sweet evil Beavis. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/112 "2011-10-10T02:35:53Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > You could also get a vasectomy, use two rubbers That actually makes it more likely that [both will break](http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1139.html). ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/113 "2011-10-10T02:54:57Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Killing a baby is really no worse than killing an adult (except in rare self-defense or war or other exceptions), but for some innate reason, feels more terrible. I’m not so sure about that. I feel like the death of a child is objectively more tragic than the death of an adult simply because the child has had less years of living, and many more missed opportunities for the joys life has to offer, before having their life cut short. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/114 "2011-10-10T03:00:10Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/115 "2011-10-10T10:09:08Z")
Could we please agree to not engage with \*\*ZPG Zealot \*\*in this thread? I think we all have the same opinion of her posts, so we can take it as read without trying to argue with her. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/116 "2011-10-10T11:31:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Apparently adoption is evil, but murder isn’t. Good sweet evil Beavis. It’s logical, as evil often is. If adoption is unthinkable, then the only solution for unwanted babies is infanticide. In her mind there are no other options. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/117 "2011-10-10T11:55:36Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I’ve know two 3 year old boys who were killed by their fathers. The first one feed the child ammonia laced with cyanide, then took it himself. The second one suffered a fatal heart attack and fell on his son, crushing him. Both fathers died. > > If you consider these the same acts, you are disgustingly mistaken. > > The first father should have fried; the second committed an unintentional tragic act. The second one “commited” an act in the same way Jupiter “commits” speeding… there was nothing he could have done to stop what happened. Those poor families ☹ **phouka** , your posts have been very informative. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/118 "2011-10-10T12:45:35Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I’m sorry, **LavenderBlue**. I probably should have private messaged him. Maybe you should copy, paste, and PM it to him as well. > [@mister\_mistro](#): > > wow, too many post to read. Otherwise your incredibly on point post may be missed. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/119 "2011-10-10T13:07:17Z")
good god. i don’t often have to stop reading a post halfway through, but **phouka’s** did it. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939/120 "2011-10-10T13:33:19Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Killing a baby is really no worse than killing an adult (except in rare self-defense or war or other exceptions), but for some innate reason, feels more terrible. It is worse because a baby cannot flee or fight back as an adult can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-old-friend-just-went-to-jail-for-killing-his-baby-how-would-you-feel/598939.md?page=7)