# My opinions and morality: Atheists welcome **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2007, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029 "2007-10-09T03:07:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![land185](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/34f0e0/32.png) [@land185](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/land185)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/1 "2007-10-09T03:07:29Z")
So, atheists, whaddaya think? Could you live in a society with religious/spiritual people is they believed the following? From “Pato’s Opinion” by Pato Banton _I do not hold no prejudice for any other nation as far as I’m concerned we’re all a part of God’s creation. Like dog a dog and cat a cat a human is a human so there should be no prejudice because of one’s complexion. There should be no prejudice because of one’s religion for every man has got the right to make his own decision. I don’t just talk to every man but also to every woman understanding gives you knowledge but the fear of God is wisdom. Wisdom is the compass that will show you the direction towards the light of Jah! and away from all illusion._ Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth - Important to you? Truth as in honesty and moral rectitude. Religious Freedom Abortion is immoral. If I kill a pregnant woman who wants a baby, I’ll be charged with double murder. If she doesn’t want the baby, she can terminate the pregnancy. Why? A life in potentia is life nonetheless. If a human doesn’t kill the fetus, odds are that it will be born live. Now, what are the ethical implications of destroying the building blocks of a sentient being that have already begun to form the organism? While there may be a gray area in the minds of some, anyone with any sense whatsoever knows that a partial birth abortion is murder. A fully mature fetus (baby) is completely alive and sentient. You can argue for argument’s sake, but you’d be wrong. Ethically and logically. A human is a shitty computer. That’s why we have instinct, intellect, and morals. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/2 "2007-10-09T03:20:28Z")
[QUOTE=land185] While there may be a gray area in the minds of some, anyone with any sense whatsoever knows that a partial birth abortion is murder. [/quote] Do you think you’d recognise a true scotsman if you saw him having breakfast? > [@](#): > > A human is a shitty computer. That’s why we have instinct, intellect, and morals. If my instinct, intellect and morals don’t agree with yours, who is to say which of us is right? And bear in mind that if you say “me because I’m guided by some form of god” I’m just going to ask you how you know your god isn’t a malfunction of your admittedly shitty computer. Or maybe I’ll ask you how you know your god is right when other people’s gods tell them something different. But anyway, no doubt I’m just arguing for the sake of arguing, while you came here to give us the simple straight truth. According to you. And Og knows, your credentials are… umm… Well I’m sure they’re just peachy. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/3 "2007-10-09T03:22:52Z")
Hey, thanks a lot for inviting me. So what’s this play about, again? I’ve read the program three times and I can’t make any sense of it. Wait… this is a church! You tricked me! ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/4 "2007-10-09T03:28:03Z")
I always thought religious people could not be moral. They do what they do out of fear of being punished whereas we non religious types do good for the sake of doing good. Wait…what were we talking about? Oh another “Guest” zealot with a poorly worded religious diatribe…is it Monday already? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/5 "2007-10-09T03:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=land185] So, atheists, whaddaya think? Could you live in a society with religious/spiritual people [if] they believed the following? [/QUOTE] I already live in a society where segments of the population believe all kinds of crazy stuff, so… yes? Anyway, alternatives to abortion are more immoral than abortion itself and human beings aren’t so rare that we need to force other humans to birth them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/6 "2007-10-09T04:00:05Z")
[QUOTE=land185] You can argue for argument’s sake, but you’d be wrong. Ethically and logically. [/QUOTE] Then I guess the conversation is over.If you just want a list of people that agree with whatever it is you are selling, go start a blog, edit out the responses you don’t like, then go sit in a corner and read them to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/7 "2007-10-09T04:13:12Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Oh another “Guest” zealot with a poorly worded religious diatribe…is it Monday already? [/QUOTE] Let’s leave out the personal remarks in this Forum, please. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/8 "2007-10-09T04:47:44Z")
[QUOTE=land185] Could you live in a society with religious/spiritual people is they believed the following? [/quote] Well, what’s my alternative ? Suicide ? Taking over and forcing everyone to convert to the Atheistic Church of Satanic Liberal Communism ? :rolleyes: [QUOTE=land185] From “Pato’s Opinion” by Pato Banton \*I do not hold no prejudice for any other nation as far as I’m concerned we’re all a part of God’s creation. [/quote] The people and nations who don’t believe in your God will likely consider that prejudiced right there, or at least obnoxious and arrogant. [QUOTE=land185] There should be no prejudice because of one’s religion for every man has got the right to make his own decision. [/quote] So you have no problem with a religion that condones human sacrifice ? [QUOTE=land185] I don’t just talk to every man but also to every woman understanding gives you knowledge but the fear of God is wisdom. [/quote] The wise don’t believe in God, and therefore don’t fear him. [QUOTE=land185] A life in potentia is life nonetheless. [/quote] Only in the sense that the same mass of bacteria is alive. It’s alive, but not a person, and undeserving of rights. [QUOTE=land185] Now, what are the ethical implications of destroying the building blocks of a sentient being that have already begun to form the organism? [/quote] None. [QUOTE=land185] While there may be a gray area in the minds of some, anyone with any sense whatsoever knows that a partial birth abortion is murder. [/quote] “Partial birth abortion” is nothing but a propaganda phrase created by the “pro life” monsters. It’s not a valid medical term. They want to force women with dead or nonviable fetuses to go through birth, in the hopes of hurting or killing as many women as they can, as well as traumatizing them emotionally. And you can’t murder something that is brain dead or just plain dead. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/9 "2007-10-09T04:52:42Z")
God does not exist. Abortion is wrong. Can’t both statements be true? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/10 "2007-10-09T06:12:17Z")
Lobohan Morality: • Human life is important and should be preserved as a default rule, unless there are mitigating concerns. • Human life gains it’s value by virtue of the mind that accompanies it. A mindless, but alive body is not worth consideration and should be put to the best use it can, be that organ harvesting, or giving some grieving parents the illusion that their daughter is still alive. • A fetus has no capacity to think, feel or experience reality. Therefore it’s heartbeat is as meaningless as the brain dead motorcycle victim being kept alive by a ventilator. • Many religious people do good things because they are either, afraid of the stick god wields, that is to say hell. Or are coveting the carrot he offers, eternal life and happy fluffy bunnies and a constant state of orgasm. If you can’t be trusted to be a decent human being unless offered a punishment or reward, you aren’t a decent human being at all. • Threads like this are meaningless because the people who post them aren’t looking or open to being convinced otherwise. That said, if you don’t like abortion, don’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/11 "2007-10-09T08:12:40Z")
[QUOTE=land185] You can argue for argument’s sake, but you’d be wrong. [/QUOTE] I was responding to your post piece by piece until I came across this. There’s not much point in trying to discuss this, is there? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/12 "2007-10-09T08:42:21Z")
Damn, you guys are harsh. I understand why our occasional visits from proselytizers are not a cause for celebration, but neither should they treated like the arrival of a brand new punching bag for our gym. > [@land185](#): > > So, atheists, whaddaya think? Could you live in a society with religious/spiritual people is they believed the following? We already do, and most of us have no problem with it. You’re arguments about abortion are out of place in this thread, I think. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Many religious people do good things because they are either, afraid of the stick god wields, that is to say hell. If that’s true, then it sure is a good thing those people are religious, isn’t it? > [@askeptic](#): > > I always thought religious people could not be moral. They do what they do out of fear of being punished whereas we non religious types do good for the sake of doing good. Not at all accurate. Most religious people would probably be just as righteous without their religion. Also, what do you mean by “non religious types do good **for the sake of doing good** ”? It would seem to me that the vast majority of people, religious and non-religious alike, do good because it gives them pleasure to do so, or because they want to be thought of well by others, or because they fear punishment (from their parents, or the cops, or their God). ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/13 "2007-10-09T08:55:48Z")
[QUOTE=VarlosZ] Damn, you guys are harsh. I understand why our occasional visits from proselytizers are not a cause for celebration, but neither should they treated like the arrival of a brand new punching bag for our gym. [/quote] There’s proselytizers who post here, and there’s proselytizers who post here (in Great Debates FFS!) who say anyone arguing against them would just be arguing for arguments sake and wrong. The OP is getting no less than what he/she deserves. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/14 "2007-10-09T09:24:39Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] There’s proselytizers who post here, and there’s proselytizers who post here (in Great Debates FFS!) who say anyone arguing against them would just be arguing for arguments sake and wrong. The OP is getting no less than what he/she deserves. [/QUOTE] And is that why people here treat them like they do? In order to right a karmic wrong and do their duty to spread retributive justice throughout the universe, no matter how unpleasant it may be for them to slander a fellow human? Of course not. They take shots at the missionaries because it’s fun to be sarcastic and dismissive towards people that annoy everyone and hence have no supporters. Acting like this\* does no good (aside from satisfying our desire to feel superior to others and come up with praise-worthy zingers). In my opinion, it is likely to hurt the feelings of the preachers, to harden their hearts somewhat to the prospect of moral and commendable atheism, and to reinforce some bad habits that are common in this forum (and the internet, as well as the world, in general). It is **far** better to ignore the thread completely, or to politely explain what you feel to be the source of your disagreement. In all cases the proselytizers will soon be gone, and neither they nor anyone else will have changed their opinion, no matter what was said. Just let them go, and we’ll all be happier. - –\> Admittedly, so far this thread is a pretty mild example of the kind of treatment the proselytizers tend to get here. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/15 "2007-10-09T09:26:39Z")
I can’t say I like that song in the OP. The first verse is okay, but the chorus is weak, and the second verse, concerning abortion, doesn’t scan at all. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/16 "2007-10-09T12:35:20Z")
[QUOTE=VarlosZ] Acting like this\* does no good (aside from satisfying our desire to feel superior to others and come up with praise-worthy zingers). [/QUOTE] Aw, come on. That’s like saying there’s no reason to eat, except that food tastes good and keeps you alive. The OP doesn’t present anything coherent enough to debate, nor is it even consistent as a prosyletization attempt. A reggae song with vague sentiments about racial and religious tolerance stumbles over an orphaned question about “brotherly love, relief, and truth,” then across what appears to be a misplaced section title “Religious Freedom,” to land face-first into a garden-variety intransigent anti-abortion rant. Well, okay! Welcome to the board, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/17 "2007-10-09T12:41:20Z")
[QUOTE=land185] So, atheists, whaddaya think? Could you live in a society with religious/spiritual people is they believed the following? From “Pato’s Opinion” by Pato Banton _I do not hold no prejudice for any other nation as far as I’m concerned we’re all a part of God’s creation. Like dog a dog and cat a cat a human is a human so there should be no prejudice because of one’s complexion. There should be no prejudice because of one’s religion for every man has got the right to make his own decision. I don’t just talk to every man but also to every woman understanding gives you knowledge but the fear of God is wisdom. Wisdom is the compass that will show you the direction towards the light of Jah! and away from all illusion._ Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth - Important to you? Truth as in honesty and moral rectitude. Religious Freedom Abortion is immoral. If I kill a pregnant woman who wants a baby, I’ll be charged with double murder. If she doesn’t want the baby, she can terminate the pregnancy. Why? A life in potentia is life nonetheless. If a human doesn’t kill the fetus, odds are that it will be born live. Now, what are the ethical implications of destroying the building blocks of a sentient being that have already begun to form the organism? While there may be a gray area in the minds of some, anyone with any sense whatsoever knows that a partial birth abortion is murder. A fully mature fetus (baby) is completely alive and sentient. You can argue for argument’s sake, but you’d be wrong. Ethically and logically. A human is a shitty computer. That’s why we have instinct, intellect, and morals. [/QUOTE] The reason you would be charged with murder would be because you denied the right that a woman chose to have a child. Suppose you have a family and they are next to starvation, you only have $3.00 for food, you come to my store and ask for a chicken I have advertised for $1.00, and a bushel of Apples for $1.00. I give you a fertilized egg and a bushel of apple blossoms that have been pollenated,you are upset . Why is that different than a fertile human egg? Except for a religious reason A fertile egg or a pollinated blossom is just a potential thing. Once a child is formed then it could be said the egg has become a child. The woman has a right to life as well. In too many cases the Right to Life comes off as just the right for birth, as the child will have many needs to be met before it reaches Adult hood. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/18 "2007-10-09T12:44:37Z")
I don’t disagree with any of that, **Vinyl**. The joy one gets from showing up others does count (which, believe it or not, is the reason I mentioned it in the first place), I just don’t think it’s enough in this case to tip the balance towards “acceptable.” ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/19 "2007-10-09T13:02:58Z")
[QUOTE=VarlosZ] And is that why people here treat them like they do? In order to right a karmic wrong and do their duty to spread retributive justice throughout the universe, no matter how unpleasant it may be for them to slander a fellow human? Of course not. They take shots at the missionaries because it’s fun to be sarcastic and dismissive towards people that annoy everyone and hence have no supporters. Acting like this\* does no good (aside from satisfying our desire to feel superior to others and come up with praise-worthy zingers). In my opinion, it is likely to hurt the feelings of the preachers, to harden their hearts somewhat to the prospect of moral and commendable atheism, and to reinforce some bad habits that are common in this forum (and the internet, as well as the world, in general). It is **far** better to ignore the thread completely, or to politely explain what you feel to be the source of your disagreement. In all cases the proselytizers will soon be gone, and neither they nor anyone else will have changed their opinion, no matter what was said. Just let them go, and we’ll all be happier. - –\> Admittedly, so far this thread is a pretty mild example of the kind of treatment the proselytizers tend to get here. [/QUOTE] I like your post, what you say is good. When you belittle, show anger, or hate others for **any** reason the results of the negative emotions are destructive to the person who holds them, not the one who doesn’t. Intelligent people are careful about what they said. ---
**Author:** ![land185](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/34f0e0/32.png) [@land185](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/land185)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029/20 "2007-10-09T13:08:45Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Well, what’s my alternative ? Suicide ? Taking over and forcing everyone to convert to the Atheistic Church of Satanic Liberal Communism ? :rolleyes: [/quote] Well, I don’t mind atheists at all. If they’re nice people, then I don’t care if they choose to practice a religion. This is not to say I think atheists are inherently mean/evil. Character isn’t determined by faith. > [@](#): > > The people and nations who don’t believe in your God will likely consider that prejudiced right there, or at least obnoxious and arrogant. I doubt it. Think of it like this: someone worships a creator. When he meets an atheist, he doesn’t criticize him for his personal decision because he respects his free will. He may believe volition to be God-given, but who cares? What he’s saying is that he loves God, and that he couldn’t truly love God unless he has compassion for all humans. This is called Humanism. In a favorite opera of mine, The Magic Flute, Sarastro(Zarathustra) is the just ruler and high priest of Isis and Osiris. Sprecher: Er ist Prinz. [He’s a Prince.] Sarastro: Noch mehr - er ist Mensch! [He’s human!] Also: \*In diesen heil’gen Hallen Kennt man die Rache nicht, und ist ein Mensch gefallen, führt Liebe hin zur Pflicht. Dann wandelt er an Freundes Hand Vergnügt und froh ins beßre Land. In diesen heil’gen Mauern, Wo Mensch den Menschen liebt, kann kein Verräter lauern, Weil man dem Feind vergibt. Wen solche Lehren nicht erfreun, Verdienet nicht, ein Mensch zu sein.\* In these hallowed halls, One knows not revenge, And should a person have fallen, Love will lead him to duty. Then wanders he on the hand of a friend, Into a cheerful and better land. In the hallowed walls, Where a human loves a human, No traitor can lurk, Because one forgives the enemy. Whomever these teachings do not please, Deserves not to be a human being. > [@](#): > > So you have no problem with a religion that condones human sacrifice ? As long as they sacrifice members of their own religion, no. > [@](#): > > The wise don’t believe in God, and therefore don’t fear him. The wise know that they don’t know. The wise would rather die now than live forever in dishonor. > [@](#): > > Only in the sense that the same mass of bacteria is alive. It’s alive, but not a person, and undeserving of rights. What about animal rights, then? > [@](#): > > “Partial birth abortion” is nothing but a propaganda phrase created by the “pro life” monsters. It’s not a valid medical term. They want to force women with dead or nonviable fetuses to go through birth, in the hopes of hurting or killing as many women as they can, as well as traumatizing them emotionally. And you can’t murder something that is brain dead or just plain dead. Well, I guess you can’t kill something that’s dead. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-opinions-and-morality-atheists-welcome/422029.md?page=2)