# My Pet Goat reading
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 27, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279 "2013-08-27T04:35:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/101 "2013-08-29T07:57:56Z")
No one has a comment on the Card interview? Really? I thought it was kind of a bombshell and I was eager to hear others’ reactions. Obviously it rebuts the claim that Bush did not know we were under attack during those seven minutes. But what about his carefully plotting not to give Bush a chance to ask any questions? Seriously, WTF is that about? Is no one else agog at that?
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Nothing I have said can be remotely construed to claim that Bush’s actions cannot be criticized.
Ah, trying to “inch over”, like Card, to a more defensible position. But the fact is, you said that those who assert that it was a huge fuck-up to sit there for seven minutes are “so utterly partisan that they would condemn Bush for curing cancer”. This strongly implies that you believe there is nothing wrong with what he did, or that he might have even done the \*right \*thing. But whatevah. Glad you are coming 'round in any case.
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#):
>
> The people who were actually running the country had too much on their plate that morning. They probably regretted later that they hadn’t instructed Bush to make a dignified retreat & at least pretend he was in charge.
>
> As the events of that morning began to unfold, everybody in the world (not cut off from media) wondered what the fuck was going on. Poor, incurious George just sat there with a stunned look, waiting for further instructions.
Ha, this is spot on. Well played!
> [@](#):
>
> Small correction: He was not reading to the kids. He was listening to them read.
True–which actually makes it slightly worse somehow. He could have slipped out without stopping the lesson.
For those who insist that it doesn’t matter because “there’s nothing he could have done anyhow”, I’m not sure that is right, but let’s say it is for the sake of argument. You are missing the point that others are trying to make to you. Let’s try an analogy.
A cop named George Bruetsch is sitting in a Dunkin Donuts drinking coffee when he hears a call go out on the radio: “Shots fired, officer down at 123 Main Street. All units respond.” He kind of raises his eyebrows and starts looking a bit freaked out, but does not get up from his seat. For seven more minutes he finishes his coffee before calmly paying the check and heading out. But someone has captured the whole scene, including the audio from the radio, on their cell phone. They put it up on YouTube, and pretty soon he is hauled up before a disciplinary committee. They chew him out, saying “You were pretty close to that address. For all you knew, you could have had the best chance of arriving there and saving your fellow cop’s life.”
George’s lawyer counters that as it turned out, another unit was even closer and got there in just over a minute. And even then, it was too late: the officer had been killed instantly by shots to the head, and the assailant then turned the gun on himself. So even if George Bruetsch had jumped up and raced to the scene, there was nothing he could have done. Is this a valid defence of George’s actions? Should this not give anyone pause as to whether he can be counted on when he really might be needed to act quickly and decisively?
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/102 "2013-08-29T10:16:26Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> Ah, trying to “inch over”, like Card, to a more defensible position. But the fact is, you said that those who assert that it was a huge fuck-up to sit there for seven minutes are “so utterly partisan that they would condemn Bush for curing cancer”. This strongly implies that you believe there is nothing wrong with what he did, or that he might have even done the \*right \*thing.
Wrong. I meant exactly what I said. I contend that those who treat his failure to rush from the room instead of spending an entire seven minutes with the kids as though that act was among the utterly worst actions of his presidency are either extreme partisans or engaging in Recreational Outrage. This does not mean that his action cannot be criticized, only that several criticisms in this thread are excessive.
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### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/103 "2013-08-29T13:32:22Z")
I love this “entire seven minutes” eyerolling business. I wonder: if you heard that your kids’ school had turned into the next Sandy Hook but there was no information on your children’s fates, how long 420 seconds would seem. The president is in a way supposed to be like a parent to the nation, collectively, right?
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### Author:  [@georgewk10](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/georgewk10)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/104 "2013-08-29T13:37:35Z")
In the 7 minutes , you think someone would have beefed up the air defenses of say. washington ,D.C.
Someone wanted it to go down as planned. That’s the conspiracy!
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/105 "2013-08-29T13:46:56Z")
Why do you assume that the Washington DC air defenses _weren’t_ beefed up? I don’t think the president needs to be there for that to happen.
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/106 "2013-08-29T13:59:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> I have made no claim that Bush made the best choice or that he could not have acted in a better fashion. However, the claims in this thread make it sound as though he chose the absolutely worst possible choice for which he should be consigned to the lowest circles of hell. That is an overreaction.
>
> And you are joining in by asserting things that are demonstrably wrong and then adding your own hysteria to the mix. Nothing I have said can be remotely construed to claim that Bush’s actions cannot be criticized.
What you said was:
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> I do not like the guy, but **there was nothing inappropriate in his response**. There was nothing the president could do to fix the situation–particularly not in the time it took him to finish a short children’s story.
(emphasis added)
IMO, you can remotely construe that to claim that Bush’s actions cannot be criticized (at the least). YMMV.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/107 "2013-08-29T14:26:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> did “W” really read? while his country burned.
No, he was listening to the children read when news of the second attack came to him…he had been told that the first attack was simply an accident. No one had an accurate picture of what exactly was going on. [Here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_for_the_day_of_the_September_11_attacks) is a timeline from Wiki:
> [@](#):
>
> 8:50: NEADS is notified that a plane has struck the World Trade Center as they continue to try to locate the flight on radar.
>
> 8:50 to 8:54 (approx.): Flight 77 is hijacked.
>
> 8:51: A flight controller at the FAA’s New York Center notices that Flight 175 had changed its transponder code twice four minutes earlier; he tries to contact the flight.
>
> 8:52: Lee Hanson receives a phone call from his son Peter, a passenger on United 175, who says “I think they’ve taken over the cockpit-An attendant has been stabbed- and someone else up front may have been killed. The plane is making strange moves. Call United Airlines-Tell them it’s Flight 175, Boston to LA.” Also on Flight 175 a flight attendant aboard calls a United Airlines office in Chicago, reporting that the flight had been hijacked, both pilots had been killed, a flight attendant had been stabbed, and the hijackers were probably flying the plane.[12]
>
> 8:52: The F-15s at Otis Air National Guard Base are airborne. Still lacking an intercept vector to Flight 11 (and not aware that it has already crashed), they are sent to military controlled airspace off Long Island and ordered to remain in a holding pattern until between 9:09 and 9:13.
>
> 8:54: Flight 77 deviates from its assigned course, turning south over Ohio.
>
> 8:55 (approx.): Announcements are made over the building-wide PA system by officials in the still-undamaged South Tower of the World Trade Center, reporting that the building is “secure” and that people should return to their offices. Some do not hear it; others ignore it and evacuate anyway; others congregate in common areas like the 78th floor sky lobby.
>
> **8:55: President George W. Bush is at Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida as part of a scheduled visit to promote education when White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, who is with Bush, informs him that a small twin-engine plane has crashed into the World Trade Center. Before entering the classroom, the President speaks to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, who is at the White House. She first tells him it was a twin-engine aircraft—and then a commercial aircraft—that had struck the World Trade Center, adding “that’s all we know right now, Mr. President.”** [13]
>
> 8:56: Ten minutes after the North Tower of the World Trade Center was hit by Flight 11, the transponder on Flight 77 is turned off and even primary radar contact with the aircraft is lost. During radar blackout Flight 77 turns east, unnoticed by flight controllers. When primary radar information is restored at 9:05, controllers searching for Flight 77 to the west of its previous position are unable to find it.[14] Flight 77 travels undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east toward Washington, D.C.
>
> 8:58: Flight 175 takes a heading toward New York City.
> [@](#):
>
> **9:03: President Bush enters a classroom as part of his school visit.**
>
> 9:03: FAA’s New York Center notifies NORAD (NEADS) of the hijacking of Flight 175, at the same time it crashes.
>
> 9:04 (approximately): The FAA’s Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center stops all departures from airports in its jurisdiction (New England and eastern New York State).
>
> **9:05: After brief introductions to the Booker elementary students, President Bush is about to begin reading The Pet Goat with the students when Chief of Staff Andrew Card interrupts to whisper to the president, “A second plane has hit the second tower. America is under attack.”[17] The president stated later that he decided to continue the lesson rather than alarm the students.**
>
> 9:06: The FAA bans takeoffs of all flights bound to or through the airspace of New York Center from airports in that Center and the three adjacent Centers — Boston, Cleveland, and Washington. This is referred to as a First Tier groundstop and covers the Northeast from North Carolina north and as far west as eastern Michigan.
>
> 9:08: The FAA bans all takeoffs nationwide for flights going to or through New York Center airspace. ABC News reports later that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the agency that runs the New York-area airports, asked the FAA for permission to close down the New York Center airspace.
>
> 9:11: The last PATH train leaves the World Trade Center. The station was vacant when the towers collapsed.
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> 9:13: The F-15 fighters from Otis Air National Guard Base leave military airspace near Long Island, bound for Manhattan.
>
> \*\*9:14: President Bush returns to a holding room commandeered by the Secret Service shortly before 9:15. The holding room contains a telephone, a television showing the news coverage, and several senior staff members. The president speaks to Vice President Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, New York Governor George Pataki, and FBI Director Robert Mueller, and prepares brief remarks.[18]
\*\*
My emphasis above. Basically, it’s ridiculous to ding Bush about this. It comes from watching too many movies where the hero jumps up, knowing exactly what to do, and rushes out to solve the problem that he’s been able to piece together from all of the disparate pieces of what’s going on. Sadly, this wasn’t a movie and Bruce Willis wasn’t the President. The reality was that there were multiple people who had small pieces of what was going on, but it happened so fast that no one, aside from a god or time traveler, could have put it all together to give Bush any key data he COULD act on. Note that the President didn’t have to be directly involved in every decision by looking at the timeline and what was being done. In the fog of war that was happening it wasn’t like everyone was waiting on his critical decision before doing something. That’s not how our system works. Key players WERE acting the best they could with the limited knowledge they had an in the shock and smoke of the situation as it was unfolding. And the President was doing exactly what he was supposed to do…he was being calm, projecting authority and waiting for more information to come to him before he could make decisions that he DID need to make.
I always get amused when folks attack Bush about this aspect of that day. I mean, there is so much that’s real that he can be attacked on. But this? This is one that really shows how silly and stupid people are who have never been in a crisis and who’s only real world experience with something like this is watching a movie.
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### Author:  [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/108 "2013-08-29T14:30:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Nope. You are the one who is out on the fringe. I have made no claim that Bush made the best choice or that he could not have acted in a better fashion. However, the claims in this thread make it sound as though he chose the absolutely worst possible choice for which he should be consigned to the lowest circles of hell. That is an overreaction.
That isn’t how I characterize the criticism. I’d characterize it as “he choked, but fortunately it didn’t matter.” What we’re really criticizing here isn’t Bush’s actions, but those who defend his period of inaction in the face of an unknown emergency.
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> From an [interview](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32782623/ns/us_news-9_11_eight_years_later/t/he-told-bush-america-under-attack/#.Uh6onRvOkpg) with chief of staff Andy Card (emphases mine):
Thanks for that! To me, it shows that it was very reasonable not to react to the first event, but a mistake to fail to react to the second.
> [@Werekoala](#):
>
> Again, he as a single individual person can’t gather the information - that’s what his Staff is for. Do you believe that any president since LBJ has actually stood over maps and drawn lines on them indicating where troops were to attack? A President’s job is to make high-level decisions.
Right, but he can’t make those decisions if he is sitting in a grade school classroom rather than assessing the information and preparing to make decisions.
> [@sitchensis](#):
>
> Any leader worth their shit knows that when a crisis happens you shouldn’t start screaming down the chain of command for information. You trust the people below you to get the information to you. Any time they spend listening to someone who is interrupting them and demanding information, is time they are wasting.
Right, but you have to get to the situation where you can get the best and most up-to-date information immediately, which isn’t sitting in a grade school classroom.
> [@DWMarch](#):
>
> Bush made a lot of mistakes both pre- and post-9/11. This is not one of them.
>
> Before the President (liberal or conservative) moves anywhere, especially if there is an imminent threat, the Secret Service clears the area. I can easily imagine this taking seven minutes or more.
But he didn’t even issue any instructions to his staff. I doubt he calculated the security aspects and said to himself, “Well, this’ll only take 7 minutes, and it’ll take more than 7 minutes to get rolling.” The correct response to the situation is obvious to anyone with good judgment: leave the classroom without alarm, consult with the sources on-site for the most up-to-date succinct information, and plan to return to a place where information can flow most quickly, as soon as possible.
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Wrong. I meant exactly what I said. I contend that those who treat his failure to rush from the room instead of spending an entire seven minutes with the kids as though that act was among the utterly worst actions of his presidency are either extreme partisans or engaging in Recreational Outrage. This does not mean that his action cannot be criticized, only that several criticisms in this thread are excessive.
What about those who just say “he goofed – he choked – but no, it wasn’t the end of the world?”
What do you say to those of us who think it’s silly that people defend this obvious mistake? It’s an obvious mistake, but not an earth-shaking one. Those who defend him reveal themselves as either partisan or very poor judgment. Very poor judgment, because the thing to do in an emergency is to figure out what to do based on the best latest information, not stall. Stalling is often harmless, but it’s never the correct course of action because it just delays anything that might need to happen immediately, and delays obtaining the best/latest information.
There really is no excuse. But that doesn’t mean it was a horrible mistake. It was just a very obvious mistake.
What possible good does it do to delay being informed during an emergency? What possible good?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/109 "2013-08-29T14:38:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **9:05: After brief introductions to the Booker elementary students, President Bush is about to begin reading The Pet Goat with the students when Chief of Staff Andrew Card interrupts to whisper to the president, “A second plane has hit the second tower. America is under attack.” The president stated later that he decided to continue the lesson rather than alarm the students.**
This is the bullshit part. How would something like “Excuse me for a minute-I’ll be right back” alarm anybody?
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### Author:  [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/110 "2013-08-29T15:00:58Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> …I always get amused when folks attack Bush about this aspect of that day. I mean, there is so much that’s real that he can be attacked on. But this? This is one that really shows how silly and stupid people are who have never been in a crisis and who’s only real world experience with something like this is watching a movie.
Your quoted material actually damns Bush more than it justifies him. From it, we know that his visit to Booker Elementary was scheduled. I.e., this wasn’t a spur of the moment visit, and the public may know where he is. We also know that Card tells him at 9:05 that, “America is under attack.” Bush was the single highest value target in America at that time and his location is known. He needed to be on the way to somewhere else starting Now. Not nine minutes later. Had there been a 757 within 40 miles with Bush’s name on it, he’d have been cooked. He may not have needed to fire off a bunch of orders until he figured out what was going on, and he may have needed some time to gather his thoughts, but he needed to do it somewhere this enemy attacking America didn’t know about. Preferably in the back of his 747 with whatever fighter escort his team could muster up.
The Secret Service trains for this; it’s one of the reasons the President doesn’t go anywhere without a friggin’ army surrounding him. They have plans for moving him immediately should the need arise, they have plans that account for a potential ambush while the President is unexpectedly on the move, and I imagine those plans are accounted for in the preparation for every visit he makes. Even if he didn’t want to do the whole screaming Go! Go! Go! bit, getting up and making a brief announcement along the lines laid out earlier in the thread would have gotten him moving to a location where he could deliberate, safely, with better communication resources than he had in a classroom. Basically a +1 to **Senor Beef** ’s observations in the thread.
I agree with **tomndebb** , this isn’t the worst thing ever that he’s done. But sitting there and reading, (or being read to, or whatever he was doing) absolutely was the wrong thing to do at that time, and I don’t blame people at all for inferring a lessened role for W in the 9/11 decision making because of it.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/111 "2013-08-29T15:22:43Z")
I think **SenorBeef** , **learjeff** and **Gray Ghost** have pretty much nailed it down. The OP was over the top, but nobody else has said that it was the worst thing he’s ever done or that it damns Bush to any circle of hell.
Nobody is saying he needed to run out in a panic. Nobody is saying that he needed to “shout down the command chain” or intercede in unhelpful ways.
He simply failed to put himself in a position to do anything. There is no rational justification for sitting there as he did.
(And how lovely to see the old familiar canard from **XT** about “there are so many things to criticize him for, so why this one?" You apply that so often one wonders which specific act or incident is fair game for criticism. It’s also a fallacy. Criticizing him for that act did not restrict anyone’s ability to criticize him for others.)
I keep running over this as a thought experiment: What if Andy Card had whispered into Bush’s ear, “Laura has been in a serious accident.” What would you expect that Bush’s actions would have been in that scenario? What should they have been?
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### Author:  [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/112 "2013-08-29T17:53:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> I contend that those who treat his failure to rush from the room instead of spending an entire seven minutes with the kids as though that act was among the utterly worst actions of his presidency
Who are those people?
The only thing that makes that particular incident stand out to me is that it’s how totally clear and inarguable its wrongness it is. That is, it’s only a 1.5 on a scale of 1 to 10, but it’s one that I just can’t see how anyone could disagree with, as opposed to other things which are a 5 of 8 on a scale of 1 to 10, but which are big complicated issues full of unknowns and ambiguities and so forth.
It’s the same reason I might attack the Republican party for being against Gay Marriage rather than for their (imho) ruinous economic policies. The economic issues are much more important in the long run (sorry, gay people, but it’s true), but Gay Marriage is just such a slam dunk that it’s easier to discuss it, even if it’s less important.
And, frankly, it seems like you basically agree with me about the My Pet Goat incident. If you were polled and asked about Bush’s performance during those 7 minutes and your choices were:
(a) performed better than you would expect from the president
(b) performed as well as you would expect from the president
(c) performed worse than you would expect from the president
It sounds like you would choose (c), albeit with a “but it’s not a huge deal” disclaimer. Which is really not far from my position.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/113 "2013-08-29T18:14:38Z")
I think it’s safe to assume that if Bush’s national security advisors - I.e., the people _whose job it was_ to decide if his executive attention was needed at the given moment - believed that there was anything he could personally have done in those seven minutes that would have made the difference, that they would have strongly advised him to leave the room at that time and he would have done so.
And I think it’s also safe to assume that Bush himself trusted the people he had appointed to fill those positions, and believed that if there was anything the administration couldn’t do unless he specifically nodded his head and said “Make it so” in his best Patrick Stewart impression, that they would have strongly advised him to leave the room at that time, and that since they hadn’t done so there was no reason for him to do anything other than finish the photo-op and wait until more intel was available.
I have never liked George W. Bush, but I don’t blame him for his response in that moment, and I don’t doubt that any other president would have done the same thing.
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### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/114 "2013-08-29T18:43:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> I have never liked George W. Bush, but I don’t blame him for his response in that moment, and I don’t doubt that any other president would have done the same thing.
Highly doubtful.
Sometimes when I’m at work, there’s a crisis. I’m in the middle of doing one thing and I get a text or email saying that the shit has hit the fan and I CALMLY STOP DOING WHAT I’M DOING AND START DEALING WITH THE CRISIS. I think most people know to stop doing something unimportant at work if they’re suddenly informed that something important is going down.
I would say that if you’re the President of the United States, “the nation is under attack” constitutes a pretty big fucking crisis. It’s probably going to be the biggest crisis you face while you’re in office. I would think that most people who’ve risen to the level of the Presidency have had enough initiative and common sense to realize that if the nation really is under attack they probably have more important things to do than sit around listening to a bunch of first graders.
Hell, even I have more initiative and common sense than that. I heard about the second plane when I was leaving the YMCA after my morning swim. My first thought was “Two planes? Shit, that’s a terrorist attack. I wonder if that’s going to affect my wife’s flight to Europe this afternoon?” So I drove straight home and turned on CNN. I didn’t continue along with my normal routine like nothing was happening.
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### Author:  [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/115 "2013-08-29T19:37:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> I think it’s safe to assume that if Bush’s national security advisors - I.e., the people _whose job it was_ to decide if his executive attention was needed at the given moment - believed that there was anything he could personally have done in those seven minutes that would have made the difference, that they would have strongly advised him to leave the room at that time and he would have done so.
This is the closest thing I’ve heard to an actual argument I can accept, but I think it fails on several levels:
(1) Reductio ad absurdum. So, Bush shouldn’t have called up his National Security Adviser, because it was the National Security Adviser’s job to actually be dealing with the situation, and Bush would have just been getting in the way. But the National Security Adviser, just like the president, is just a bureaucrat at the top of an org chart. So probably HE shouldn’t have called up anyone either, because anyone he called was the person really doing something, and he would have just gotten in the way. Etc. It makes no sense to start saying that the people in charge of crises should never actually talk to anyone lest they interfere, or no one is ever going to end up talking to anyone.
(2) There was a person whose job it was… and that person was the president. I mean, I suppose it’s POSSIBLE that there was some well established protocol that all the involved parties were aware of where in the case of a time-critical emergency, the Acting Emegency Contact Person would be someone who was at NORAD, and the way it would work was that that person would gather information for 10 minutes, and after 10 minutes begin every-5-minute updates to the president, and everyone knew that if the president called up this person, who clearly knew who they were and clearly was already taking charge of the situation, then the president would be getting in the way. Except that I’m just making that up. This was before the department of homeland security. There was no one person who was the at-the-second point person czar for dealing with massive terrorist attacks. No one but the president. (Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but in many exhaustive threads about this topic, no one has ever come up with the name of the person who was actually so busy responding to the crisis and making instant decisions at that precise moment that having the prez talk to them would have hindered their ability to do their already well-defined job.)
(3) Even if I’m 100% wrong about both the above points (and I admit that I’m not an expert on the study of crisis management or what have you), there’s still something extremely useful that Bush could (and should) have been doing, which was talking to those of his aides who were not at that precise moment making life and death second-by-second decisions and starting to get back up to speed on any topic that seemed even potentially related. This, to me, is the utterly telling point. I mean, even if Bush had been in a weirdly remote out-of-communication where he literally could not get on the phone to the security apparatus for 10 minutes until his car drove out of a canyon (or something), he could still have started brainstorming and bouncing ideas around to start preparing for what to do once the real information started pouring in
(4) And even if I’m wrong about all three of the above points, and in fact Bush really truly did the best thing, you will never ever EVER convince me that the reason he did so was for good reasons (ie, he actually assessed the situation and concluded for some bizarro-but-in-this-hypothetical-actually-valid-reason that the best thing he could do was keep reading to kids). Rather, the reason he sat there and kept reading was some combination of being in shock (understandable, but not something to be proud of in a leader) or just being used to having other people tell him what to do where and when. Which, as I’ve said repeatedly in this thread, is not all that big a deal on the scale of the Busy presidency… it’s just So. Totally. Clear.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/116 "2013-08-29T20:05:49Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
(And how lovely to see the old familiar canard from XT about “there are so many things to criticize him for, so why this one?" You apply that so often one wonders which specific act or incident is fair game for criticism. It’s also a fallacy. Criticizing him for that act did not restrict anyone’s ability to criticize him for others.)
[/QUOTE]
Ah, well I’m sure you can produce lots of quotes from me demonstrating this then, right? Since I apply it so often you should have no problem backing up your assertion. Will be interesting to see all the myriad times I’ve used this, and what the context I was discussing when I did. Thanks so much in advanced, Hentor.
[QUOTE=The Hamster King]
Sometimes when I’m at work, there’s a crisis. I’m in the middle of doing one thing and I get a text or email saying that the shit has hit the fan and I CALMLY STOP DOING WHAT I’M DOING AND START DEALING WITH THE CRISIS. I think most people know to stop doing something unimportant at work if they’re suddenly informed that something important is going down.
[/QUOTE]
And I’m fairly sure the low level people were doing just that…they were dealing with the crisis. That’s why stuff was getting done despite the fact that Bush wasn’t personally approving every action.
I guess the fundamental disconnect here between those who think Bush was an idiot and those who think he did what he should is the panic factor. If YOU dropped what you were doing and calmly started dealing with the problem then no one would probably notice or care, aside from perhaps your boss or coworkers. Maybe the same for your boss…and maybe even your bosses boss. At some point, however, folks are going to start taking notice and perhaps start to worry or even panic. When the President of the US drops what he’s doing (in front of the press) and hurries from the building, however, it’s bound to be noticed. Leaving aside the kids, who certainly would have been panicked had Bush stopped what he was doing and left, after being whispered too, or the teachers who would be even more panicked (perhaps thinking that someone was trying to kill the president and wouldn’t care about hurting their kids), the press certainly wouldn’t have been stupid enough to miss the fact that he was being whispered too and then hurriedly left the building, perhaps after a brief statement.
There was nothing…zero…substantial that Bush COULD have done in those few minutes that required him leaving immediately and causing that worry or panic. The only argument that’s valid, as far as I’m concerned, is the one where maybe Bush himself was a target, and frankly he could just as easily been a target moving away as staying there. As far as I know, and I’ve watched the video several times when this stupid subject came up on this board in the past, the Secret Service wasn’t trying to rush him out or even approach him to assert that he should leave immediately after receiving the news of the second attack. Nor have I ever heard them criticize him either officially or unofficially for not immediately bolting the building.
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/117 "2013-08-29T20:15:35Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> I guess the fundamental disconnect here between those who think Bush was an idiot and those who think he did what he should is the panic factor. If YOU dropped what you were doing and calmly started dealing with the problem then no one would probably notice or care, aside from perhaps your boss or coworkers. Maybe the same for your boss…and maybe even your bosses boss. At some point, however, folks are going to start taking notice and perhaps start to worry or even panic. When the President of the US drops what he’s doing (in front of the press) and hurries from the building, however, it’s bound to be noticed. Leaving aside the kids, who certainly would have been panicked had Bush stopped what he was doing and left, after being whispered too, or the teachers who would be even more panicked (perhaps thinking that someone was trying to kill the president and wouldn’t care about hurting their kids), the press certainly wouldn’t have been stupid enough to miss the fact that he was being whispered too and then hurriedly left the building, perhaps after a brief statement.
I’m not someone who thinks Bush was an idiot, but I don’t buy the panic factor.
Maybe some little kids there would have gotten a bit worked up, but it’s just one classroom of kids, and in addition, kids get frightened about a lot of things, and it’s no big deal in the larger scheme of things.
As for the nation as a whole, people were not focused on how fast Bush left a building to be panicking over that.
At that point, there were really 2 things that could have happened. Either it turned out to be a huge deal, or it didn’t. If it did, then people would have had enough to go by in deciding whether to panic that they wouldn’t have to base anything on how fast Bush left some building. (Which is what actually happened.) And if it didn’t (e.g. had the towers not come down), then what Bush did or didn’t do wouldn’t have been a matter of such great focus.
I’ll bet presidents break off PR stunts and leave on official business all the time. Things come up, you know. The nation would not go into a panic over Bush leaving early from something, one way or the other.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/118 "2013-08-29T20:25:31Z")
[QUOTE=Fotheringay-Phipps]
I’m not someone who thinks Bush was an idiot, but I don’t buy the panic factor.
[/QUOTE]
I DO think he was and is an idiot, contrary to what Hentor apparently believes. If the President of the US is sitting down to read with a bunch of kids in an obvious publicity stunt, then someone hurries over to whisper in his ear…someone who was obviously shaken, as is visible by watching the footage…and Bush, also visibly shaken gets up and says a few words and then bolts…sorry, but I don’t know how that wouldn’t scare or frighten not only the kids but the adults there. WHY is he getting up? Why does he look upset?
It’s been a while, but I seem to recall that they interviewed some of the teachers and kids, and pretty much unanimously they said that they were a bit scared even by what happened, but that they calmed down when Bush just went on with the story.
> [@](#):
>
> As for the nation as a whole, people were not focused on how fast Bush left a building to be panicking over that.
No, I doubt it would have caused panic in the country, though it might have caused folks to be more afraid if Bush had visibly panicked, or even had he left in a hurry. But probably not. But then, I doubt people would have been more reassured if he had, or less critical of him. My guess is had he jumped up and left we’d be having this same stupid discussion, but folks would be saying that he still did the wrong thing and should have stayed, since obviously there was no threat to him and no reason to panic the kids or the teachers, other adults or the press.
Bush did a lot wrong while he was president. Hell, I can’t think of many things he did right. But to me, this is and has always been a dumb ass thing to ding him on. Even if it wasn’t the most optimal decision to stay and project calmness (and I actually think it was, especially in hindsight), we are talking a few minutes here, and just the shock and unknowns to me excuses his actions that day.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/119 "2013-08-29T20:27:24Z")
Yes, it’s really a good thing that Bush kept the press from getting wind of the fact that something was up on the morning of 9/11.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-pet-goat-reading/667279/120 "2013-08-29T20:34:20Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> I DO think he was and is an idiot, contrary to what Hentor apparently believes. If the President of the US is sitting down to read with a bunch of kids in an obvious publicity stunt, then someone hurries over to whisper in his ear…someone who was obviously shaken, as is visible by watching the footage…and Bush, also visibly shaken gets up and says a few words and then bolts…sorry, but I don’t know how that wouldn’t scare or frighten not only the kids but the adults there. WHY is he getting up? Why does he look upset?
No one is suggesting this scenario. Let me say this again: _No one is suggesting this scenario_. I tell you three times: _ **NO ONE IS SUGGESTING THIS SCENARIO!** _
The panic, the bolting-who the hell in this thread(or the previous ones on this subject) has suggested that this is what they wanted to happen?
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