# My school cut the study-abroad program to Spain because Spain supports terrorism. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329 "2005-03-07T06:55:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/21 "2005-03-07T14:34:36Z")
You should look into going with some other college’s program - it’s probably easy to do. My school used to have other people come from miles around to go overseas on our programs, because they were much cheaper than what the private schools were charging for the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/22 "2005-03-07T15:02:59Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > :eek: > Un-fucking-real! > > So students aren’t allowed to study in any country which doesn’t support our agenda? Or is it just allies who don’t go along with everything we say? Insane. It seems that it might be the latter. From [this story](http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/05/26/news-arellano2.php): > [@](#): > > Fuentes did not return a call for comment, but it’s strange that he and the other trustees are suddenly concerned about study abroad programs in countries that refused President Bush’s invitation to join—or, in Spain’s case, dropped out of—the Coalition of the Willing. For the 2004-2005 academic year, SOCCCD trustees have approved study abroad to Cambodia, China, New Zealand and Vietnam, all countries with administrations that oppose the U.S. Invasion of Iraq. And Fuentes & Co. also permitted district-funded student trips to Boston, New York City and Washington, D.C.; last year, each of these cities passed resolutions condemning the Iraq war (and on Sept. 11, 2001, each was as dangerous as Madrid was on March 11, 2004). This is fucking outrageous. This guy doesn’t deserve to be part of an academic institution. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/23 "2005-03-07T15:12:16Z")
The situation is indeed outrageous. Letting politics dictate the policies of academia is a dangerous precedent. I find it amazing that, for all the GOP bleating about freedom, they sure have a hard time practicing it. Does the OP’s school offer trips to Latin America? Sure, Spain would be a fun trip, what with the beaches and the wine, but she could have an equally fun junket in Mexico, Peru, or Chile, too. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/24 "2005-03-07T17:04:14Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Does the OP’s school offer trips to Latin America? Sure, Spain would be a fun trip, what with the beaches and the wine, but she could have an equally fun junket in Mexico, Peru, or Chile, too. And cheaper too, given the current state of the dollar against the Euro. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/25 "2005-03-07T17:11:10Z")
I think people are missing the big picture. If someone is dumb enough to forbid language study in Spain because he opposes their government on a foreign policy issue, stop and think about what other decisions he’s probably making about school policy. What do you think this nutjob is doing with the history department or biology? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/26 "2005-03-07T17:17:20Z")
somebody should tell that dickroll about the Spanish troops currently serving in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/27 "2005-03-07T17:53:38Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > The situation is indeed outrageous. Letting politics dictate the policies of academia is a dangerous precedent. I find it amazing that, for all the GOP bleating about freedom, they sure have a hard time practicing it. For my part, I find this a misguided effort. I am reminded, though, that South Africa was academically isolated for years, with few formal affiliations with American schools. Indeed, South African degrees were routinely denied recognition in America and Europe for some time. There is some precedent, then, for politics interfering with arrangements such as this. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/28 "2005-03-07T18:37:40Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > For my part, I find this a misguided effort. > > I am reminded, though, that South Africa was academically isolated for years, with few formal affiliations with American schools. Indeed, South African degrees were routinely denied recognition in America and Europe for some time. > > There is some precedent, then, for politics interfering with arrangements such as this. Weak fuckin’ analogy, asshole. You’ll find that Spain’s currently a lot more tolerant and forward-thinking than the increasingly repressive US of A. If anyone should be isolated right now due to their policies, it’s none other than Bush’s Imperialist Amerikkka. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/29 "2005-03-07T19:11:06Z")
I’ve been there. Like everywhere else, it has it’s good and bad points. I don’t think study abroad programs should be ended there, though, and I said as much. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/30 "2005-03-07T19:30:27Z")
Man fuck all that “try another program” bullshit, I suggest you do anything and everything to tear that asshole down. Run his ass out of town on the rails. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/31 "2005-03-07T19:30:37Z")
I can’t imagine that many Spaniards would be too happy about being compared to apartheid-era South Africa. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/32 "2005-03-07T19:38:43Z")
I’m not suggesting that at all. I’m merely pointing out that this doesn’t seem to be the first time someone’s study abroad opportunities have been affected by political pressure of one form or another. It doesn’t make it right in this case, and I don’t think it was done properly when applied to South Africa either. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/33 "2005-03-07T20:50:10Z")
But you have to realize that your comment was rather insulting to Spain. Apartheid-era South Africa, I think everyone will agree, deserved every ounce of political pressure which was brought to bear against it to end apartheid. It was evil despotic racism personified. The only issue up for debate would have been whether shutting down something like a student-exchange program would be counterproductive, since arguably exposure of South African students to North American or Western European cultures would actually aid in the goal of ending apartheid. But Spain? Spain is in _no way_ comparable to apartheid-era South Africa, and I just can’t see how “In the past, student-exchange programs with evil regimes have been shut down” is remotely relevant to the discussion at hand. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/34 "2005-03-07T21:04:53Z")
Thank you, **Gorsnak** , for having the patience I lack to make that blindingly obvious point to **Moto**. Must be my Spanish temper…or my terrorist affiliations. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/35 "2005-03-07T21:14:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I am reminded, though, that South Africa was academically isolated for years, with few formal affiliations with American schools. Indeed, South African degrees were routinely denied recognition in America and Europe for some time. > > There is some precedent, then, for politics interfering with arrangements such as this. The point in South Africa was that they were not a real democratic government (due to the fact that the majority of the population was denied real voting rights). So they deserved the same censure that countries like Cuba, China, North Korea, or Saddamist Iraq deserved. Spain, on the other hand, is a democratic country whose people voted in a government which happens to have different opinions form our own. Another important difference is that collegiate sanctions against South Africa were usually the result of a mass movement among the students and faculty. The OP’s situation is that of a single person abusing his authority to speak on behalf of the entire school. If he had put the issue to a vote before the school, I would support the resulting decision. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/36 "2005-03-07T21:24:54Z")
**Mr Moto** , I knew what you meant. Just wanted to back you up, since I’ve also said things that have been taken as insults when they weren’t intended that way. Fuentes is an ignorant jerk. I hope he gets smacked down. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/37 "2005-03-07T21:36:27Z")
Seriously, this guy is allowed to do this to his students how? What a complete and utter fucking witless moron? Someone must have the power to sack him? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/38 "2005-03-07T21:42:13Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > This really pisses me off. Either I am going to have to switch schools or wait until I get into the UC system until I do the study-abroad program. For what it’s worth, you don’t have to go to a school to attend it’s study-abroad program. I had a buddy of mine attend a study-abroad program about 10 years ago in Moscow courtesy of Wellesley, I think. And he was a man, studying at Texas A&M. I went to the UK a couple of summers ago with Georgetown U’s MBA study abroad program, and I was going to UT-Dallas at the time. If I were you, I’d go and look around on the web- there are probably many study-abroads in Spain, South America and Mexico that you could get into. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/39 "2005-03-07T21:44:03Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Does the OP’s school offer trips to Latin America? Sure, Spain would be a fun trip, what with the beaches and the wine, but she could have an equally fun junket in Mexico, Peru, or Chile, too. I can do a 4-week summer program in Costa Rica, but I was really hoping to go to Europe. I have a lot of friends and distant family members all over Europe and I was hoping to stay either a couple weeks before or a couple weeks after what I needed to attend and visit some other countries while I was over there. This is a school that has **a lot** of Muslim students. To have such a person in charge disturbs me. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/40 "2005-03-07T21:51:49Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I just can’t see how “In the past, student-exchange programs with evil regimes have been shut down” is remotely relevant to the discussion at hand. Ah, but Spain is the same evil regime that brought to us _La Macarena_ and _Aserejé_. They deserve every little bit of scorn thrown at them. But seriously… who the hell put these people in charge of education of all things? Sometimes I think \*some \*people in the US are trully beyond help. Psychiatric help that is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329.md?page=3)