# My school cut the study-abroad program to Spain because Spain supports terrorism. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329 "2005-03-07T06:55:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/61 "2005-03-08T04:06:36Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Well for starters his stunt seems to be illegal no? Go to the media, the school board, go to anyone that will listen. Rally the muslim students, stand out side his office with a tuba, threaten to break his legs, whatever you have to do. > > I would be beside myself with rage if he pulled some shit like that. On what grounds would this be illegal? Mr. Fuentes is one of the elected trustees, who voted 5-2 against continuing the program. Where’s the illegal part? Was it “illegal” for university trustees to boycott exchanges with South Africa in the '80’s? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/62 "2005-03-08T04:37:47Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > On what grounds would this be illegal? Mr. Fuentes is one of the elected trustees, who voted 5-2 against continuing the program. Where’s the illegal part? > > Was it “illegal” for university trustees to boycott exchanges with South Africa in the '80’s? Alright so it’s not illegal, everything is peachy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/63 "2005-03-08T05:03:30Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Alright so it’s not illegal, everything is peachy. :rolleyes: Why yes, everything is peachy, and that’s the point. The people of OC formed a Community College District, elected representatives to act in their interests, and those elected reps voted to discontinue a particular program. Where is the damage? Unless they are violating California or Federal law, of which there is no evidence, whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/64 "2005-03-08T05:12:40Z")
I wouldn’t say everything is peachy, but I recently pointed out in other threads that everything that is wrong in the world isn’t illegal or unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/65 "2005-03-08T05:17:52Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Why yes, everything is peachy, and that’s the point. The people of OC formed a Community College District, elected representatives to act in their interests, and those elected reps voted to discontinue a particular program. Where is the damage? Unless they are violating California or Federal law, of which there is no evidence, whatsoever. The damage, you moron, is that their decision is based on ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/66 "2005-03-08T05:31:30Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I wouldn’t say everything is peachy, but I recently pointed out in other threads that everything that is wrong in the world isn’t illegal or unconstitutional. There should be a law against that! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/67 "2005-03-08T06:22:03Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > The damage, you moron, is that their decision is based on ignorance. Well, not _only_ ignorance. There’s also simple political pandering. Lots of Pubbies around here are still pissed off that the Spanish government elected last year didn’t want to suck George Argyros’s dick. I’d say “Good on them,” but it means that we got the fucker back here. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/68 "2005-03-08T06:35:33Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > **Spain gave in to terrorism** , it is not in the best interest of a free society that protects rights of the people such as womans and gay rights to support such a country. No – Spain backed down so that they wouldn’t be as likely a target again. So if you had a child that got punched in the nose by a meaner kid on the playground, you would be upset if he/she chose to respond by avoiding future confrontations with the meaner kid? (as opposed to some form of retaliation?) And how exactly is sending students on study programs supporting the other country? If anything, I think it would be **supporting the students**. You know, learning opportunities. > [@](#): > > But as pointed out above Spain is not the only country that speaks Spanish. If your goal was to complain about not being able to visit a spanish speaking country, that is a crock of shit **Kimera** stated this, earlier on the page: “I can do a 4-week summer program in Costa Rica, but I was really hoping to go to Europe.” Seems pretty clear to me. She could choose another Spanish-speaking country (and might), but she’d _prefer_ to go to Europe. I would, too. What’s wrong with that? ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/69 "2005-03-08T06:51:51Z")
I’m not sure how Spain ‘backed down’ at all - if anything, they stood up for what they believed in, and elected a president who actually believed in representing the will of his people. The **vast** majority of Spaniards were against the invasion of Iraq; former president Aznar ignored the protests and sided with the US, in the hopes of future political/ economic benefits. Before the Madrid attacks, the PSOE (those lousy leftists!) was already in the lead. Spain had the collective _cojones_ to not tolerate a president that was more interested in realpolitik than serving as a representative to his people, and to not permit fear the degradation of human and civil rights out of fear. To summarize: 90% or so of country supports Option A. President chooses Option B. People choose not to reelect him in favor of a candidate that supports Option A. How is this cowardice, again? And, just out of curiosity, how many of the ‘Spaniards are a buncha cowards’ folks have even spoken to one? About this issue? ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/70 "2005-03-08T06:52:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If you goal is to further the terrorist POV of being against equal rights for women I think you deserve the place you put this post. Oh man, you uncovered the truth! I hate women so much and I wish to prevent them from having equal rights!! > [@World Eater](#): > > \ It’s getting better! I spent most of my time growing up in Cincinnati so Orange County seems like liberal paradise to me. And South Orange County is different than the Northern parts. If you are from the Midwest or a Southern State then you will probably find it more liberal than what you are used to and it’s considerably more multicultural. White is minority in the four closest colleges to me (UCI, IVC, OCC and Saddleback). ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/71 "2005-03-08T06:53:30Z")
dur…‘and to not permit the degradation of human and civil rights because of fear.’ ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/72 "2005-03-08T06:54:18Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > The damage, you moron, is that their decision is based on ignorance. Well, I’d say the damage is that their decision is based on politics (namely their own personal grudge regarding Spain’s response to the attack on their own country), and NOT based on what’s best educationally for their students. A trustee at a college or a university **ought** to be putting their school’s and students’ needs first, not politics (regardless of party affiliation). ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/73 "2005-03-08T06:57:44Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > No – Spain backed down so that they wouldn’t be as likely a target again. A major reason Spain voted out the previous government is that it _lied_ to them about the train bombings: the government blamed them on ETA. Even if one were to think Spanish politics is wrongheaded, as **kanicbird** does, cutting off contact with Spain is among the least effective ways to change opinions. If anything, you’d want more contact and understanding between the two cultures. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/74 "2005-03-08T07:09:45Z")
> [@aurelian](#): > > I’m not sure how Spain ‘backed down’ at all… > > To summarize: 90% or so of country supports Option A. President chooses Option B. People choose not to reelect him in favor of a candidate that supports Option A. How is this cowardice, again? I presume you were responding to my post? If so… I did not make any claim that there was cowardice involved. Change the phrasing “backed down” to “changed their prior position”. Doesn’t matter. The point was “WTF does it have to do with study abroad programs and opportunities for student learning”. And you might notice that I was supporting the OP’s position, not criticizing Spain. To me, this is not a Repub vs. Dem issue. This is a “college trustees should base their decisions on creating the best educational program for their school and not on politics” issue. I’d argue the same statement if the situations were reversed and it was mostly Dem trustees cancelling the program because Spain decided to commit troops to Iraq. (or decided to allow logging in a spotted owl habitat. Whatever). Bottom line: Don’t punish your students just because you don’t agree with a political decision (i.e. one that is not putting the students in danger). ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/75 "2005-03-08T07:21:12Z")
Point taken - ‘changed position’ makes more sense to me - their elected officials actually reflect their views. And I agree with the rest of your post - it’s truly scary that this decision is based purely on politics (and politics that don’t even have any internal cohesiveness…want to know what two of the other summer programs the community colleges offer? China and Egypt. Man, I couldn’t make this shit up if I tried.) ---
**Author:** ![WCOT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e5b9ba/32.png) [@WCOT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WCOT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/76 "2005-03-08T07:21:18Z")
This sort of thing seems to be becoming more prevalent, when i attended a SUNY school, state policy(or so we were told) was that while the country was in condition orange(or perhaps it may have been red, im not sure i remember 100%) visitors to the campus were prohibited from entering buildings without authorization for the higher ups. Of course this was a state university with pseudo state troopers instead of security guards, and the buildings were regarded as official state buildings and were considered to be targets of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/77 "2005-03-08T08:56:06Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Except for the fact that you’re probably more likely to see Spanish offered in a school than any other foreign language. Humm, I don’t know nothing. In Maryland, my nephews and nieces are offered French and … well actually just French. A buddy of mine got his doctorate from Columbia, they have a requirement for an ‘academic language.’ He could have done Russian, German or French. He did German. His doctorate is in Arabic. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/78 "2005-03-08T09:16:15Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > **Humm, I don’t know nothing**. In Maryland, my nephews and nieces are offered French and … well actually just French. A buddy of mine got his doctorate from Columbia, they have a requirement for an ‘academic language.’ > > He could have done Russian, German or French. He did German. > > His doctorate is in Arabic. :rolleyes: Guess you don´t. [Spanish in the United States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_in_the_United_States) > [@](#): > > Spanish is the most widely taught foreign language in US secondary schools and institutions of higher education ([3] ([http://www.mla.org/adfl/bulletin/v19n2/192039.htm](http://www.mla.org/adfl/bulletin/v19n2/192039.htm))), indicating its importance among non-Hispanic Americans, especially that there are Latin Americans of non-Spanish, non-African, and non-Native American descent. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/79 "2005-03-08T09:43:11Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > **Kimera** stated this, earlier on the page: > “I can do a 4-week summer program in Costa Rica, but I was really hoping to go to Europe.” > > Seems pretty clear to me. She could choose another Spanish-speaking country (and might), but she’d _prefer_ to go to Europe. I would, too. > > What’s wrong with that? Nothing’s wrong with that. If she wants to go to Europe she can go to Europe. All she has to do is buy a boat or plane ticket and she can go virtually anywhere she wants. What’s the beef? That she can’t get college credits for the trip? That the college won’t subsidize the trip? So the administrator is an idiot. There are worse things. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329/80 "2005-03-08T10:04:46Z")
Perhaps if South Africa was an inflammatory example, though it was clearly the principle, Israel is more acceptable. Some European universities have also tried to subject Israel to academic boycott. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-school-cut-the-study-abroad-program-to-spain-because-spain-supports-terrorism/293329.md?page=5)