# My September 11 Thoughts
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 4, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989 "2014-06-04T02:41:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 34
### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/661 "2014-06-25T19:43:39Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> TWELVE YEARS and no one can build a model to duplicate what supposedly happened on 9/11. It only took 4 months to do the 1/200th scale oscillating model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in 1940. Computers must slow things down.
>
> psik
Fuck that noise. This has been explained several times. Why do you keep pounding this shit?
---
### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/662 "2014-06-25T19:49:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> You do not understand physics. Whether the bottom floor of the 15 stories that fell was crushed or not, it was still part of the mass that was falling – so the next floor down felt the weight of all 15 floors (even if one or more were subsequently crushed), and then added its own mass to the falling floors, so each subsequent floor ‘felt’ enough falling mass to crush it.
You used the incorrect term “floor”. Your argument is invalid. 😃
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/663 "2014-06-25T19:51:19Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> You used the incorrect term “floor”. Your argument is invalid. 😃
That’s right. If you are looking up and it’s coming toward you, its a _ceiling_.
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### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/664 "2014-06-25T20:22:06Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> If people claim it could happen in reality then why can’t they model it? Even a computer model would have to have correct data.
Here’s your computer model:
[http://www.structuremag.org/article.aspx?articleID=453](http://www.structuremag.org/article.aspx?articleID=453)
Here’s an excellent explanation of why physical models of the collapse is so difficult and mentions several issues with scaling down that you keep ignoring:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsDn6es7mtk)
You’re also ignoring a point I and others have brought up. You said:
_Something caused by someone would have had to destroy the supports below_
and
_No, I mean something else destroyed the supports in the 90 stories below where the plane impacted the north tower._
How do you explain video evidence of the towers collapsing at the point of impact and not at the supports below?
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/665 "2014-06-25T20:24:58Z")
The man has x-ray vision, **Psikey**. I’d listen to him if I were you.
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### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/666 "2014-06-25T20:36:35Z")
When we’re all done playing, last one out please put the toys away and turn out the lights.
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/667 "2014-06-25T20:45:27Z")
> [@Smeghead](#):
>
> When we’re all done playing, last one out please put the toys away and turn out the lights.
**psikey** has to put away the Jenga blocks. He made us get them out.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/668 "2014-06-25T20:53:25Z")
Maybe that’s the secret theory - that the WTC was constructed as a Jenga set and mysterious entities were removing pieces until they fell down.
Oddly enough, they both fell down after being hit by planes with the collapse starting at the point of impact.
Devious! I _knew_ something was up!
Hey… can we get a Jenga model of the WTC? I think we are REALLY ON TO SOMETHING!
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/669 "2014-06-25T20:54:16Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> Newton’s third law got repealed?
>
> Are you saying the bottom LEVEL of the falling 15 stories didn’t get crushed like the top LEVEL of the 90 stories? But if they both got crushed where did the energy to accomplish it come from?
>
> One of us believes in magic physics.
>
> TWELVE YEARS and no one can build a model to duplicate what supposedly happened on 9/11. It only took 4 months to do the 1/200th scale oscillating model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in 1940. Computers must slow things down.
>
> psik
Just four short days ago Tom gave you a warning to stop with this nonsense unless you could bring a better argument to the table instead of simply repeating the same thing. Yet here you are again.
Tom and I speak with one mind on this. Another warning is issued and I will discuss your posting priviliges with the rest of the mods this evening.
Don’t do it again. No matter what.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/670 "2014-06-25T20:56:14Z")
Actually, here is a good [Jenga blocks model](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItN-RnGa9v4) of the tower collapsing. It’s not a good analogue to what actually happened except that it shows the cascade effect (and even shows the ‘core’ staying up until the little kid manages to throw another block into it…where it shows that collapsing pretty similarly to how the towers fell). What this DOES show, however, is the effect of even a small amount of support going and how that one block going can have a cascade effect that brings the whole thing down.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/671 "2014-06-25T22:46:04Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> Another warning is issued and I will discuss your posting privileges with the rest of the mods this evening.
Does this warning mean I can’t respond to his post responding to my post? Because I had a good one involving graviton generators in the WTC basement, though his denial of the very existence of gravity gives us a better idea of what we are dealing with.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/672 "2014-06-25T23:02:33Z")
_sigh_
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### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/673 "2014-06-26T02:35:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> You do not understand physics. Whether the bottom floor of the 15 stories that fell was crushed or not, it was still part of the mass that was falling – so the next floor down felt the weight of all 15 floors (even if one or more were subsequently crushed), and then added its own mass to the falling floors, so each subsequent floor ‘felt’ enough falling mass to crush it.
Ding! The lightbulb just went on. This is Psy’s problem. He seems to think that that when the 15 floors hit the remaining floors that the while the top floor of the remaining building collapsed so did the bottom floor of the falling section. He further seems to think that after this repeats 14 more times the collapse would stop. The flaw in his logic finally dawned on me. For this to be true, the mass of each crushed floor would have to disappear.
In reality when the as the top section came down on the remaining building, the floors crushed, but the mass was still there to land on the next floor down.
It doesn’t matter if the floors are intact or not, the mass is still there.
---
### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/674 "2014-06-26T02:38:00Z")
But precisely how much mass?
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/675 "2014-06-26T03:15:38Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> But you didn’t say anything about the strength in relation to that weight which is what the square cube law is about.
>
> I presume the missing zero is a typo.
>
> Yes, so a true scale model of the same materials would be 100 times as strong in relation to its weight therefore collapse would be even less likely.
>
> That is why I used supports that I could test the strength of in relation to the static load they had to support and make them AS WEAK AS POSSIBLE.
>
> But then it still did not collapse in two drops. So where has anyone made any self supporting structure with equally distributed mass or bottom heavy where the top 15% or less by height could fall and destroy the supporting structure below?
>
> If people claim it could happen in reality then why can’t they model it? Even a computer model would have to have correct data.
>
> psik
The lower structure is not identical top to bottom. Each floor is engineered to carry the weight above it. When the the supports gave way the weight of the floors above drove into each successive floor and collapsed it.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/676 "2014-06-26T03:20:51Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> Does this warning mean I can’t respond to his post responding to my post? Because I had a good one involving graviton generators in the WTC basement, though his denial of the very existence of gravity gives us a better idea of what we are dealing with.
Fah! My [“the CIA was creating micro black holes”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17457297&postcount=387) theory is _obviously_ the right one! I even gave this new particle a name - the **Crapion** , because it’s made of bullshit.
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/677 "2014-06-26T03:26:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> **The lower structure is not identical top to bottom.** Each floor is engineered to carry the weight above it. When the the supports gave way the weight of the floors above drove into each successive floor and collapsed it.
But what is the exact difference between each [del]floor[/del] LEVEL? Please provide all parameters to ten decimal places. 😃
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/678 "2014-06-26T03:46:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> But what is the exact difference between each [del]floor[/del] LEVEL? Please provide all parameters to ten decimal places. 😃
Well you don’t need to know the parameters. all you need to know is that the top floor represents the base value and each floor beneath is stronger than the one above. So as it collapses the weakest floor gives way first.
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### Author:  [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/679 "2014-06-26T10:18:18Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> Does this warning mean I can’t respond to his post responding to my post? Because I had a good one involving graviton generators in the WTC basement, though his denial of the very existence of gravity gives us a better idea of what we are dealing with.
Ah yes, we see another typical tactic of the true believers. This statement totally contradicts eyewitness accounts of explosions in the basements and fireballs in the lobbies before the planes hit.
You can bring up nonsense like graviton beams and lasers, but you can’t really hand-wave these accounts from people that were there. And remember, we got these accounts raw and unfiltered, before any pressure was applied by society to just go with the official story.
Before you give me any excuses about eyewitness testimony not being reliable, remember people are sent to prison all the time based upon the same accounts.
Now you tell me. How can you just dismiss the multiple accounts, all saying the same thing?
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-september-11-thoughts/689989/680 "2014-06-26T10:41:15Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#):
>
> Now you tell me. How can you just dismiss the multiple accounts, all saying the same thing?
Really?
There are multiple accounts, but they do not all say the same thing. They say lots of different things. If there were multiple accounts all saying the same thing, you might have a point. We don’t and you don’t.
Explosions in the basement? The “witnesses” were in the basement, yet they were not affected. Interesting claim. And while there were several hundreds of people on the lower floors on that day, there are fewer than a half dozen who make that claim.
Fireballs in the lobby before the planes hit? Again, one or two “witnesses” who were not in a position to actually see the planes hit, so cannot know the timing of the fireballs vs the plane strikes, and their accounts are contradicted by dozens of people who do not make the same claim.
And, of course, there are the liars who have made things up just to promote their own “theories.”
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