# My sister bought a house and now has too much debt **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 15, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958 "2012-02-15T19:40:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/21 "2012-02-15T23:48:16Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Wow. Wife and I bought a house five years ago. Together we made about $145K at that time and had no debt, and we didn’t feel comfortable exceeding $22K a year for house payments. > > $24K a year on a salary of $100K sounds…uncomfortable. Add in student debt, and…ouch. That hurts. This is pretty much exactly the way my husband and I feel. Even when I didn’t know about the student debt I was saying to my husband, “Wow, that’s… a really large percentage of their combined takehome income; I’m glad we agree that we wouldn’t want to do something like that.” It was learning about the student debt where I was all WTF? > [@Frylock](#): > > Those and many other things are on the list of things my wife and I have heard from foolish old people. Do you know my parents? Because they’ve said all those things. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/22 "2012-02-15T23:59:31Z")
I have 4 kids, plus me and the hubby. We live in a 2200 sq ft house with 4 bedrooms, and I think it is just the right size. No spaces we don’t use, plenty of room. 5 bedrooms for a childless couple? In. Sane. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/23 "2012-02-16T00:07:44Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > “Need” is the operational word here - there are a lot of people in the world who confuse “want” and “need.” No shit. I love tiny houses. Unfortunately a wheelchair needs hella more clearance around fixtures and furniture, and needs specially laid out bathrooms and specialty kitchen counters so it isn’t that I want a custom built house so much as I need one … Not to mention stairs and steps are problematical as well, so I can’t just buy any random house any more ☹ ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/24 "2012-02-16T06:26:40Z")
I’m part of the “why is your sister letting your parents push her around” crowd. As well as “why would a parent be so frenetically involved in an adult child’s life” crowd and the “wouldn’t we all be better with proper borders” crowd as well. Financial stupidity is rampant, but overbearing parents must be brought under control. Let your sister make her own mistakes on her own time. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/25 "2012-02-16T06:37:44Z")
I’m not that exercised. If she’s a medical doctor her income should be pushing well into 6 figures all by itself in a few years. Assuming her husband starts working even with the school debt they’ll have no problem covering the note. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/26 "2012-02-16T06:40:18Z")
If your sister can’t sell the house, let your parents pick up the slack and pay the difference she can’t cover, since she’s living _their_ dream. I understand parental pressure and twisted logic etc. so let them help until she really can afford the payments. For awhile we lived next door to a family with eight kids. (They later had four more.) Lived in a house with three bedrooms and one bath. They turned the attic into one long bedroom with twin beds lined up like in _Little Orphan Annie._ They were great people and the kids were uber respectful. My brother and I played over there every day and ate lunch with them. One bathroom. For ten people plus. But they orchestrated it perfectly. In fact, it might make a good rock opera—the way they interwove each other’s needs like a symphony. I don’t think a lot of square footage is what’s needed for a good home. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/27 "2012-02-16T06:50:47Z")
😕 The mortgage company didn’t turn them down? I was told very firmly by my mortgage broker that my total debt payments (including the new mortgage) couldn’t exceed 25% to 30% of my income. They really wanted it below 25% but would give exceptions in some cases up to 30%. Plus you couldn’t get a personal loan for the down payment. For example if your parents gave you 10K. They checked my accounts and would have seen that deposit instantly. They checked me out with a fine tooth comb. I even had to write two bullshit letters explaining/apologizing why two of my Sears payments were ten days late. Sears loves to fuck peoples credit like that for even a week over due. The Mortgage broker took those humble pie letters and put them in the file. They were real hard asses about it. They told me exactly what my mortgage limit was and then I had to go and find a house within that price. This was twenty years ago, but I can’t see the rules changing that much. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/28 "2012-02-16T07:12:11Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > 😕 The mortgage company didn’t turn them down? I was told very firmly by my mortgage broker that my total debt payments (including the new mortgage) couldn’t exceed 25% to 30% of my income. They really wanted it below 25% but would give exceptions in some cases up to 30%. > > Plus you couldn’t get a personal loan for the down payment. For example if your parents gave you 10K. They checked my accounts and would have seen that deposit instantly. They checked me out with a fine tooth comb. I even had to write two bullshit letters explaining/apologizing why two of my Sears payments were ten days late. Sears loves to fuck peoples credit like that for even a week over due. The Mortgage broker took those humble pie letters and put them in the file. > > They were real hard asses about it. They told me exactly what my mortgage limit was and then I had to go and find a house within that price. > > This was twenty years ago, but I can’t see the rules changing that much. ??? The very fact that the rules **did** change is what caused all this housing mess. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/29 "2012-02-16T07:24:58Z")
I didn’t realize they had relaxed loans qualifications that much since mine in 1989. I went through a mortgage company because they were loaning Bond Money that the city had recently issued. The Bond Money was fixed rate and the best interest rate available at that moment in time. If they just started giving loans to anyone that walked through the door then the mortgage crises finally makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/30 "2012-02-16T07:32:41Z")
That’s what the whole “subprime” lending disaster was. Lending to People who weren’t prime candidates. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/31 "2012-02-16T07:59:42Z")
With four bedrooms doing nothing they could rent them out and make easily enough back to pay off their loans before your sister’s old enough that having kids will either not be possible or will need expensive and painful fertility treatment. Bet they’d never do that, though. And I second Nava - 3 bedrooms, not big enough to start a family in? How? They might end up not being able to have kids because they spent all their money on buying a house to raise a family in, despite having one already. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/32 "2012-02-16T08:42:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > If they just started giving loans to anyone that walked through the door then the mortgage crises finally makes sense. That’s really not all that far off what happened. Read up on NINA (no income, no asset) loans, and know that in 2005, [43%](http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/housing/2006-01-17-real-estate-usat_x.htm) of home buyers put no money down on their home, and the median downpayment was 2%. At any rate, now that the shit hit the fan, sanity has somewhat returned and it’s no longer that easy to get a mortgage. (Hell, even when I was getting a business credit card it took some bargaining to get the credit limit I needed, when years ago when I had no possible means of repaying my card, they just kept jacking my limits up several thousand dollars at a time, unprompted. Now that I can actually pay, it’s like pulling teeth to get the credit limit I need [which I don’t need for an actual loan, just for pre-authorizations on rental equipment.]) ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/33 "2012-02-16T12:24:49Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Those and many other things are on the list of things my wife and I have heard from foolish old people. > > Yeah, that’s what I said. Foolish. Old. People. As opposed to what you have heard from foolish young people? The people who made this decision were not old (however you measure that). They had the ultimate authority to decide what they would do. Your agist comments are not appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/34 "2012-02-16T12:34:46Z")
Your sister is a doctor and she and her husband together make $100K yearly? Doe he not work? Does she work part time? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/35 "2012-02-16T13:38:03Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > As opposed to what you have heard from foolish young people? > > The people who made this decision were not old (however you measure that). They had the ultimate authority to decide what they would do. > > Your agist comments are not appreciated. Hey, some of my best friends are old. But the thing is, there’s a meme that’s been around for, well, millenia, that older is to be associated with wiser. As far as I can tell, at least contemporarily, the association is not one that should be made. So, I counteract it by highlighting its counterexamples. This is not to say that old people tend to be more foolish than young people, it is to argue that the oppressive “older==wiser” meme needs to be dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/36 "2012-02-16T13:49:09Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > Your sister is a doctor and she and her husband together make $100K yearly? Doe he not work? Does she work part time? You’d probably be appalled at how little a hospital doctor makes when they’re fresh out of med school. First year residents (“interns”) make less than $40,000 on average. That can be really brutal when you consider the kind of student loans that they carry. (Ever notice the abundance of cheap apartments that are within walking distance of the big “teaching” hospitals?) Being a doctor is a great financial idea in the long term, but the early years have the potential to really suck, with the relatively low pay, high student debt payments, insane hours, and stress. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/37 "2012-02-16T13:50:12Z")
Frylock, I can understand what your point is. Plenty of people who have had exposure to life are still thick. However, I think you’ll find there are just as many younger people who think they know it all and get burned. If the OP’s parents have this mindset it could easily be due to out dated thinking rather than simply being old. My apologies. I should have let it slide. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/38 "2012-02-16T13:55:33Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > It turns out _all_ of their money outside of living expenses and 401k contribution is going to service their debt. I hate to say this but I see this all the time :(. Lots of young/new doctors with tons of debt have it drilled in their heads that they deserve a McMansion and will do whatever it takes (overextend themselves financially, rely on family, whatever) to get it. The few that aren’t are living like “paupers” in a 2 bedroom rental that hasn’t been updated in 25 years. And they’re pissed off. Can you encourage them to rent the new big home out? What you can do is make sure she has _excellent_ disability insurance (with a large COLA) in case she becomes disabled at any point in her career. **Don’t let her skimp on this!** ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/39 "2012-02-16T14:20:48Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > House values will only go up! > > Your income will only go up! > > You can get a job anywhere you like because you can operate a computer! > > You can get a job anywhere because you are certified to teach! > > You have a PhD, you will always have a good job! > > Those and many other things are on the list of things my wife and I have heard from foolish old people. > > Yeah, that’s what I said. Foolish. Old. People. That is too harsh. What the parents are doing is trying to guide and help their daughter and son-in-law. It sounds as though the guidance is needed too but sometimes parents have to take a step back. Nevertheless education and skills consistently provide people with better life security and the earlier you start on building up assets, the better off you become in the ensuing decades. The thing is, it requires some hard and frugal years but that is easier to cope with when you are young. I think the parents are too optimistic in this situation and they are wrong, but I don’t argue with their general premise of looking to the future while you are young. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > “Need” is the operational word here - there are a lot of people in the world who confuse “want” and “need.” Amen to that. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958/40 "2012-02-16T14:37:55Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > I’m part of the “why is your sister letting your parents push her around” crowd. As well as “why would a parent be so frenetically involved in an adult child’s life” crowd and the “wouldn’t we all be better with proper borders” crowd as well. Heh. Yes. Yes, we would all be better off. I do feel bad for my sister – for whatever reason (a combination of temperament and second-child syndrome, I imagine) she’s desperate for parental validation in a way I’m not, which makes her much more susceptible to this kind of thing. Plus which she did want a big nice house so I imagine it wasn’t that hard to push her into it. And also, my husband refuses to be pushed. Anywhere. Which makes it easy to ignore my parents. It also means they like my sister’s husband much more (which is, on the whole, also a plus, as mr. hunter doesn’t care whether they like him and it means we don’t get quite as much nagging). > [@astro](#): > > I’m not that exercised. If she’s a medical doctor her income should be pushing well into 6 figures all by itself in a few years. Her income will probably cap at around $100k, which would put their total income cap at less than $200k (see below). > [@Becky2844](#): > > If your sister can’t sell the house, let your parents pick up the slack and pay the difference she can’t cover, since she’s living _their_ dream. \ > > For awhile we lived next door to a family with eight kids. (They later had four more.) Lived in a house with three bedrooms and one bath. I think this is part of why I think it’s so insane: I know one family with six kids in a two-bedroom apartment (like your neighbor, my friends have incredible space management skills) and another that raises chickens and bees so they don’t have to go into debt… so coming from that mindset this is particularly shocking to me. Yeah, my parents will probably pick up the slack (I’m realizing my sister has painted herself into a corner where she will have to accept their help with kids). Of course this will come with emotional payments, though… > [@aceplace57](#): > > 😕 The mortgage company didn’t turn them down? The rules have changed, but I’m still surprised they didn’t get turned down. My parents actually were surprised too (which I didn’t understand until I found out about the extra debt). > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Bet they’d never do that, though. Heh, you’re right. > [@ratatoskK](#): > > Your sister is a doctor and she and her husband together make $100K yearly? Doe he not work? Does she work part time? > [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > You’d probably be appalled at how little a hospital doctor makes when they’re fresh out of med school. What **Sarabellum** said. My sister is currently a resident and makes somewhere in the ballpark of $40-50k – when she begins fellowship next year she’ll go up by $10k or so, but isn’t going to make what I would consider a “doctor-level” income until after she gets out of fellowship. She is also in a field that isn’t one of the high-paying ones and is probably going to do research part-time, which will cap her earnings at about $100k even when she gets out of fellowship. It is rather surprising to me. He is an engineer and makes about $60k, which is about par for the course for a college-educated engineer. > [@lindsaybluth](#): > > What you can do is make sure she has _excellent_ disability insurance (with a large COLA) in case she becomes disabled at any point in her career. **Don’t let her skimp on this!** This is an excellent point, and one I hadn’t thought of. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-bought-a-house-and-now-has-too-much-debt/612958.md?page=3)