# My sister has been saved. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 22, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017 "2002-08-22T01:44:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/1 "2002-08-22T01:44:42Z")
My sister does sales for a mid-sized trucking company and travels quite often. This is what happened to her yesterday: > [@](#): > > Strangest sales call I have made in this last year… > Current customer of ours, decent revenue, etc. I sat across the table from him and we talked trucking for about 45 minutes. He seemed a little on the ‘odd’ side, but I couldn’t place why. Then, as abruptly as if I got up and walked out with out a word, he looked at me and… > > He said: “I’m a Christian and part of my duty as being a Christian is to spread the word. Are you a believer?” > > I said: “Excuse me?” > > He said: “Do you attend services?” > > I said: “As a matter of fact, I do not.” (This proved to be the wrong answer.) > > He then began to preach to me about how great the miracles of the Lord are. > > I said: “What religion are you?” > > He said: “I am a Christian.” > > I said: “So you’re a Methodist? Baptist?” > > He said: “No. I am a Christian.” > > Now the last time I checked, there are all sorts of Christians: Catholics, Lutherans, even the debatable Jehovas Witnesses, can all be grouped into the Christian category, right? He seemed to think that he’s a REAL Christian and that the rest of the world are heathens and we’re all going to hell. > > Then, he started to preach about how his church started. It seems a bunch of hippies in California were tracking mud into somebody’s church and people started complaining about the hippies. The minister there decided it was more important to save souls, so he tore the carpet out of the church and started focusing on the soul-saving biz rather than the uppity-church-goers biz. For real. And I’m sitting there listening to a disciple of this fruitcake. > > He then told me that he searched for a long time to find his faith before finding this church (I’d say he didn’t search long enough). He told me about his abusive childhood, his alcoholic father, his drug/alcohol use. He paused long enough to say that it wasn’t a good idea for him to be sitting in a room alone with a pretty young girl for such a long time. He told me that I could use God in my life and that if I searched for God that maybe I wouldn’t have to have a bunch of truckers gawking at me all the time. Now THAT freaked me out a little. Fucking sexist hypocrite. > > And he preached some more about how great this church is, how it changed his life, how great his marriage is now - but that it was a little tough to get his wife to switch from their Methodist church to this one. He said it was a little tough for him too at first with the laying of hands, speaking in tongues, etc, but that he got used to it and now he’s really into that. > > On the back of his biz card, he wrote down a book that I should read, a website I should visit, and a radio talk-show host that I should listen to. I should have wrote “Deprogramming” on the back of my card. > > Now I’m sitting across the table from him, my portfolio on the table, my hands folded on top of my portfolio and… > > He says: “I want to pray with you.” He then GRAB MY HAND to commence to pray. > He says: “Let’s pray with our eyes open, just in case someone walks in.” > > Then he starts praying for my soul, that I’ll find God, etc, etc. > > At the end of his prayer, he says “Amen” – I said “Thanks?”. (I forgot about the Amen thing.) I didn’t really know what else to say because I was so freaking shocked at what had just happened. Not only that, but their company is a good customer of ours and I didn’t want to go about offending him. I felt like I should have asked him that since he had the Big Guy on the line, could he ask him to send a little more freight my way? > > Then he tells me that that is the first time that he’s prayed with a non-believer. Now I didn’t tell him that I didn’t believe in God, I merely said that I do not attend services. You know, these same people that leave the mainstream churches for these New Religious Movement/Evangelical/free-churches - claim that they leave the regular churches because of the hypocrites, the beaucracy, the cliques – but end up in the same bullshit, only they think that NOW they are different (reason #468 of why I don’t like organized religion). And why do ALL of these people think that just because some of us do not attend church, that we aren’t as righteous as they are (#469)? > > Then, he said he aspires to be a minister in the church. > > I said: “What’s the best way to get back to I-87?” > > So now I’m saved. Jealous, aren’t you? I just realized I forgot to ask her if this company was still a customer… ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/2 "2002-08-22T01:52:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Then, he started to preach about how his church started. It seems a bunch of hippies in California were tracking mud into somebody’s church and people started complaining about the hippies. The minister there decided it was more important to save souls, so he tore the carpet out of the church and started focusing on the soul-saving biz rather than the uppity-church-goers biz. For real. And I’m sitting there listening to a disciple of this fruitcake. Whoa - one of my _oddest_ co-workers told me that exact story. He said that was what inspired him to become a member of this church. He’s quite the weird one… ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/3 "2002-08-22T02:02:53Z")
Actually, the bit about ripping the carpet out to get people to shut up about it struck me as a great idea. The rest of it, though… Wow. I got cornered and not-quite-saved by a coworker while a summer-camp counselor one summer, which was odd, but an apparently composed, at least modestly successful customer? Too strange. You know, in many states his actions could be construed as harrassment. (Sorry; the company sent me to Sensitivity Training yesterday for some reason and it’s still wearing off.) ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/4 "2002-08-22T02:29:23Z")
\*He then told me that he searched for a long time to find his faith before finding this church (I’d say he didn’t search long enough). He told me about his abusive childhood, his alcoholic father, his drug/alcohol use. \* I just wanted to see that one more time. It has been my observation that an addict of any kind will always have an addiction of some kind, and religion is, for the most part, at least a more socially acceptable addiction than, say, heroin. Maybe I am way off base, but there seems to be a very high proportion of “former” addicts among the saved. Not trying to start a debate, just collecting evidence for my theory. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/5 "2002-08-22T02:51:39Z")
> [@](#): > > He paused long enough to say that it wasn’t a good idea for him to be sitting in a room alone with a pretty young girl for such a long time. Pretty young girl’s responses: A: “I had the same thought.” B: “That’s OK. I’ve got Mace.” C: “Oh, I’m so glad you’re self-restraint is so strong otherwise I’d be tearing my clothes off in an effort to despoil your body and condemn you to an eternity of hellfire and damnation because, as everyone knows, women are merely Satan’s tool created for the sole purpose of debasing men and can’t control themselves in the presence of such a hunk of bible-thumping love as you, ticklebuns.” D: “Are you done with your meatloaf platter? I need a place to vomit.” ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/6 "2002-08-22T03:25:25Z")
[sub]Rysdad, will you please email me? I’ve been trying to get a hold of you for a week but the email addy I have is out of date. rsandy7420 at yahoo dot com[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/7 "2002-08-22T07:30:34Z")
> [@](#): > > He told me that I could use God in my life and that if I searched for God that maybe I wouldn’t have to have a bunch of truckers gawking at me all the time. Wow. That’s some stunning logic. Come to think of it, I’ve seen a hell of a lot of sluttily dressed women on TV, in movies (porno and otherwise), and in real life, with big, gold crosses hanging proudly around their necks (or between their boobs). I guess the leering truckers see the crosses and immediately divert their gaze in reverance to their almighty lord. LifeonRye said: > [@](#): > > I just wanted to see that one more time. It has been my observation that an addict of any kind will always have an addiction of some kind, and religion is, for the most part, at least a more socially acceptable addiction than, say, heroin. A similar sentiment was echoed some 150 years ago by one Karl Marx : “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of the soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.” > [@](#): > > Maybe I am way off base, but there seems to be a very high proportion of “former” addicts among the saved. It does seem like that. Jesse Ventura got into a heap of trouble when he called religion “a crutch for the weak” (paraphrasing, but that’s pretty close). I think religion can be just that in many instances, especially for those recovering from substance abuse. I refuse, however, to ascribe to the belief that all religious people are like this. It is well known among addiction specialists that addicts will substitute one addiction for another. Someone will quit heroin or cocaine, only to go on to be a problem gambler. It stands to reason that fervent religious beliefs could also fill this void. Another possible reason for this phenomenon could be the overtly religious nature of 12 step programs. AA/NA basically tells people that their addictions aren’t their fault, that they can’t control themselves, and must turn themselves over to god. Studies have repeatedly shown that AA/NA is about as effective as _no treatment at all!_ It’s also more likely to make participants relapse in a BIG way, since AA tells them that nothing is under their control. If they’re going to have one drink, it’s inevitable that 20 more will follow. They physically can’t help it. Freewill doesn’t exist. It’s fate! :rolleyes: Secular, non-12-step recovery programs have shown significantly higher recovery rates, but they remain relatively rare. Ah, ain’t it great living in the wholesome, god-fearing U.S.A.? Jesus will fix everything, so we don’t have to worry! ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/8 "2002-08-22T07:34:07Z")
Ya know, this ‘religion is a substitute for addiction’ bit is giving my sister giggle fits. She’s a recovering alcoholic, sober for more than four years. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/9 "2002-08-22T08:02:43Z")
That carpet story is commonly told about Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, CA. You can hardly drive in Orange County (especially) and L.A. County without passing a daughter church of this one. Mind you, I have some nits to pick with Chuck, but he’s not the wacko this guy might seem to imply. It’s something like the third biggest church in the country, so by all laws of averages, it HAS to have some weirdos attending. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/10 "2002-08-22T08:14:40Z")
Heh, the OP reminded me of a freight-related Jesus story of my own. I work at a trucking company like the OP’s sister. One night while walking the dock, I noticed a colored leaflet sticking out of the packing list of an inbound shipment from Ohio. It looked very out-of-place, so I picked it up and read it. It was a _really_ bad tract. Seriously. Jack Chick would be rolling in his grave if he saw this. It had the usual religious ramblings, but interspersed between the blather were at least five bold, large-lettered proclimations that “WE SUBSCRIBE TO THE BELIEFS OF THE REV PAT ROBERTSON.” I considered throwing the tract in the dumpster where it belonged, but I reconsidered. I mean I didn’t find it in a McDonald’s bathroom stall or something. The freight was someone else’s property and I guess if they want to preach their delusions to their customers, that’s their business and it’s the customers’ responsibility to stop ordering products from these yahoos. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/11 "2002-08-22T09:34:28Z")
_I noticed a colored leaflet sticking out of the packing list of an inbound shipment from Ohio_ I believe the correct term is **African-American leaflet** ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/12 "2002-08-22T12:28:37Z")
**neutron star** said: > [@](#): > > Studies have repeatedly shown that AA/NA is about as effective as no treatment at all! It’s also more likely to make participants relapse in a BIG way, since AA tells them that nothing is under their control. \ I would really like to see a cite for these “studies.” I can tell you that AA doesn’t cause relapses, addiction does. And, AA does NOT tell one that nothing is under one’s control. Further, if AA is “about as effective as no treatment at all”, how do you account for the recovering alcoholics whom AA has helped regain their lives? I think that you haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about so far as AA is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/13 "2002-08-22T13:07:36Z")
> [@](#): > > He says: “I want to pray with you.” He then GRAB MY HAND to commence to pray. Like making someone a party to _anything_ against their will, it’s pretty damned obnoxious to just grab some stranger’s hand and pray with them without asking first. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![EggNogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@EggNogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EggNogg)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/14 "2002-08-22T13:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > He then began to preach to me about how great the miracles of the Lord are. So these were the great type of miracle not the mearly miraculus miracles? egg 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/15 "2002-08-22T13:40:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > It does seem like that. Jesse Ventura got into a heap of trouble when he called religion “a crutch for the weak” (paraphrasing, but that’s pretty close \*\* I never respected The Body more than when he said those words. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/16 "2002-08-22T14:03:23Z")
To bad, as a resident of the great state of Minnesota, I can tell you: Jessie is just plum stupid, occasionaly something brilliant comes out, as if an infinite number of monkeys in his head had been banging away at an infinite number of typewriters for an infinite number of years. Sadly, all the monkeys are usually only able to spit out mindless, self-serving drivel. I had an old buddy I hadn’t seen in years, he was always the wildest one at the parties. He was in town and called me. I thought it would be a wild night on the town just like the old days. My wife still says I was incredibly rude (as soon as he started up I turned to the waitress and said “check please”) ButI still think that he was the rude one. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/17 "2002-08-22T16:34:21Z")
You know, I don’t think anyone on this board, ever, has acknowledged my points when I try to make these little mitigating statements about how religious people aren’t all whackos. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/18 "2002-08-22T17:03:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > \*\* > > Wow. That’s some stunning logic. Come to think of it, I’ve seen a hell of a lot of sluttily dressed women on TV, in movies (porno and otherwise), and in real life, with big, gold crosses hanging proudly around their necks (or between their boobs). I guess the leering truckers see the crosses and immediately divert their gaze in reverance to their almighty lord. > > \*\* [aside slight hijack] I majored in TV & Radio production in college. One of the classes I took was in Criticsm. My instructor in that class was Sister Camille D’Arenzio (who can often be heard on 1010WINS here in New York). One day the topic turned to Modanna. She took the opportunity as a nun, to express her opinion on the use of a crucifix by Modanna and others in thier videos. She was of the opinion (and I can’t say that I disagreed with her too much) that to take the ultimate symbol in Christianity for sacrifice and charity, the cross that Jesus died upon for the sins of humanity, and use it as a personal ornament in the manner that Modanna does was, IHO, downright evil. I shudder to think of what her opinion is of “Piss Christ (which, even to me, an Orthodox Jew, highly offensive).” [/hijack aside] Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/19 "2002-08-22T17:39:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cardinal \* > \*\*You know, I don’t think anyone on this board, ever, has acknowledged my points when I try to make these little mitigating statements about how religious people aren’t all whackos. \*\* I would NEVER make a claim that all religious people are whackos. I do not believe that all religious people are whackos. I have known people of deep and abiding faith, and I have no problem with them. Because I do not subscribe to a particular religion does NOT mean I think religion is bunk. It is still my observation that there are a great many addicts in the world, that it appears to be very possible to trade one addiction for another, and that a significant number of people who express their religious convictions constantly and vociferously (to the point where they regularly make others uncomfortable) are former addicts to drugs or alcohol. It is also my observation that, of those people I know who DO go on and on about their religious convictions, most will use the specific term “born again.” ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017/20 "2002-08-22T18:34:04Z")
I wonder if, when Zeus, Hera, and the other gods of Olympus were falling out of favor, that is, when another religion was supplanting theirs, if there were Zeus fanatics? Desperately trying to convince people that Zeus (still) existed, and ruled their fate. Fanatical fundamentalists scare me. To be so certain in whatever version of the MSP they worship – seems like madness to me. This guy’s reference to laying of hands and speaking in tongues means he’s in good company. Our attorney general is Pentecostal, too. To have someone so deluded and narrow-minded in such a position of power… That scares me more than just about anything. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-sister-has-been-saved/125017.md?page=2)