I loved SLC when I visited. It’s where all the liberals in Utah go, so the political climate is pretty moderate.
I was not looking for Asian or ethnic food when I was there, so I can’t comment. But the downtown is pleasant and walkable, and the mountains… oh my god, the mountains are GORGEOUS, full of trails ranging from easy day hike to much more. And the airport is great.
Hmm, Hawaii is near the top of my list, and has GREAT food of many types. It’s a long flight from anywhere else, but the airport itself is quite pleasant. I did a lot of walking when I visited, and never felt unsafe. (Maybe I just didn’t notice, but I don’t think so.) Lots of interesting art/crafts. Crappy public transit. And I completely fell in love with the culture.
Real estate on the Big Island is much cheaper than Oaho. You might consider Hilo.
Maybe consider a college town. They tend to be more walkable with better public transit and more diverse and open-minded than similiarly sized towns elsewhere in their states. I’m thinking of places like Morgantown WV or Knoxville TN.
You seem to have a reputation as the go-to guy for answers, but you are totally wrong on this. Of course there are subdivisions where you have to drive to get your mail, but to say there are NO places in the entire Phoenix metro area where you are unable to “walk, bike, and/or take easy public transportation” is patently absurd.
Like I said, how far do you want to walk? I can walk to the supermarket, drug store, some restaurants. I can walk to a bus stop. I can take said bus, or drive two miles, and take the light rail all the way to west Phoenix. If you live near downtown Mesa, downtown Tempe, or downtown Phoenix, you can walk to a ton of stuff. I’ve never lived there, but it’s probably true in Gilbert, Scottsdale, PV, Avondale, etc as well.
If on the other hand, in the continental US, you want to only walk or take public transport everywhere, then Manhattan is the place to be. Probably the only place.
Hey, we’re only the fifth largest city in the country, but apparently no one lives here because it is such a hellhole.
Well, it was one of my least favorite cities to visit of all time. It was… I forget, hot as hell outdoors. So hot I couldn’t step outside. And there was nothing near my hotel. The hotel may have been in an obscure low-rent district, I dunno. Perhaps I never saw the nice parts of the city. But it was SO FREAKING HOT I wouldn’t have enjoyed it.
Manhattan is not the only “place to be” for walking and public transit. Here is a list of cities by walkability and transit indices: Most Walkable Cities in the United States and Canada on Walk Score
You’ll note that Phoenix, while not at the bottom, is also nowhere near the top. While there are certainly neighborhoods where access to some amenities is within walking distance and offer the necessary access for pedestrians to safely navigate as I noted in my original response, the bulk of Phoenix and the surrounding communities are not laid out in such a fashion, notwithstanding that nobody is walking anywhere in 110°+ heat.
The o.p. emphasized “walkability” in their original criteria (it was actually the first item in the list) and thus it is presumably a key criterion. Confining “walkability” to needing to live around the corner from the grocery store or your preferred house of worship is not what is generally meant by a town or city being “walkable”, and I don’t know of anyone other than yourself who would consider Phoenix an eminently walkable city, comparable to, say, Portland or Chicago.
Typically, when people say they like a town that’s walkable, they mean they that groceries, dozens of restaurants and bars, theater, entertainment, businesses, shopping and greenspace are all within a short walk of each other. As SOAT mentioned, places like Chicago and Portland. I’ve been to Phoenix a handful of times in the last couple years - Phoenix doesn’t fit this at all. Maybe some parts of Scottsdale do.
If you like Phoenix - great. But you certainly like it for far different reasons than the OP requires.
Old Town Scottsdale has an entertainment district with some nearby housing and transit options, and if you live in University Park or Sunset/Riverside then the Mill Street District is walking distance, but beyond that there just isn’t really a concentration of amenities. Note that walkability and rideability don’t just mean that stuff is close by, but that it is actually convenient and safe to reach, e.g. there are sidewalks, protected bike lanes, safe crossings or pedestrian bridges and underpasses to facilitate pedestrians and bike riders, and convenient public transit to allow for commuting or other non-driving longer trips. Inherent in walkability is also the reduction of vehicle traffic so as to make it more safe and comfortable for pedestrian and riders on their routes. Even if there is a sidewalk, nobody likes walking along side a busy street with vehicles roaring past and breathing exhaust.
In the case of Phoenix and the surrounding communities, there are often not continuous sidewalks or even marked (much less protected) bike lanes, and in areas of high concentration like Mill Street there are large parking garages to allow people to drive because it is a necessity. Phoenix does have light rail (which I have taken) but it is pretty limited and suffers from the same problem as light rail in Los Angeles that the city is just to spread out for it to be convenient for the majority of commuters. I’m sure Phoenix has its charms aside from the few I mentioned previously, but being comfortable to walk around in is not among them.
Wait, SOAT among others is complaining about not being able to walk in Phoneix because of the “intolerable” heat, and freaking CHICAGO is listed as a walkable city! You ever been there in the winter? Lucky if you don’t get blown into the lake.
Plus, “Chicago” is no more walkable than Phoenix, unless you live downtown. Outside of downtoen, someone that lives in the residential area, like say 10 miles, isn’t walking to downtown.
I repeat - if you want to live within walking distance of things you want to walk to, you can do that anywhere. And you’ll pay for it. But if you want to use Chicago as a positive choice, to be able walk to downtown, or the baseball stadium, and “dozens” of restaurants and bars, and have an affordable house, I hope you like walking. Because that’s what you’ll be doing. Downtown Phoenix is just as “walkable” as downtown Chicago, and outside of downtown each is just as “not walkable”.
You can walk around downtown Phoenix, I’ve done it. Even in the summer. Sheesh.
You can dress for cold, and Chicagoans (and Minneapolian/St. Paulers, and Buffalo…ettes?) do. When the wet bulb temperature exceeds 95 ℉, there is no protection other than to stay inside with air conditioning, a point you acknowledged earlier (“You stay inside during the day, and go out after dark.”)
As for getting around, I have flown into O’Hare, gone up to Evanston, back downtown, out to McKinley Park, and flew out of Midway, all without ever getting into a car, taxi, or bus. That is because Chicago has a reasonably extensive municipal transit system connected to commuter rail that will get you pretty much any where in the city within a couple of miles of a destination, and out to commuting hubs in the outlying communities. It also has a thoroughly distributed infrastructure such that wherever you live you probably aren’t more than a few blocks away from a grocery, community center, half a dozen churches, and at least twenty pubs because if there is a full block in Chicago without at least two bars I haven’t found it (only mild hyperbole). Rideability isn’t so great for bicyclists to say the least but you can pretty easily live and get around in Chicago without needing a car, and I know people that do.
I don’t know of anyone who tries to get by in Phoenix without either owning a car or relying upon the indulgence of others that do because Phoenix is not remotely friendly to pedestrians, and I say this coming from Southern California where pedestrians are basically treated like mobile markers.
My So was looking at Knoxville a couple of days ago as a more affordable alternative to Nashville. Yeah. Knoxville sounds like a definite possibility! It has a cool name too.
Never heard of Morgantown. I think it might be a bit too small @ 30k inhabitants.
I think carless might be a better term than walkable. It includes public transportation. No one is walking from Midway to the loop. I know/have known a number of people without cars in Chicago.
Yeah, if dressing for the cold was all it took, people would be moving to places like that in droves.
Sadly, they are moving out here, instead.
As for “walkability,” while the entire Phoenix metro area isn’t very walkable, that’s because it’s spread out over 100 square miles. But, there are many. many walkable neighborhoods, including quite a few both downtown and midtown, and of course purpose-built mixed-use communities.
Phoenix is definitely a “car town,” but there are few cites of this size that aren’t. Manhattan, of course, where a car is a liability. Maybe Chicago, if you have plenty of time to get where you need to be. In my case, I can go almost anywhere I need to be on a daily basis on my bike, or walking if I have the time. But, having a car is a huge convenience.
I don’t know how many more ways I can say you are wrong, but I doubt you’ll acknowledge it. My cite is living here for 35 years.
You see I actually DO know people here that don’t have cars. (yes, adults with jobs!) No one would claim it was common, but they exist, and even thrive. (Speaking of LA, I even knew one in Marina Del Rey when I lived there, though it still astounds me she worked downtown and took the bus!)
Within one mile of my house in three directions there are three major supermarket stores, probably ten food places (fast food and sit down), two chain drug stores, and a legal pot shop. And as noted, a bus stop. No bars that close, I admit. And my situation is nothing special. I don’t live near downtown - in fact, I actually live on the edge of the zoned business area - nothing but houses to the north. Not even a gas station before you hit desert. Used to be orange groves, until all the influx of people not unlike the OP moved in. Used to be nice. You could feel the air get cool in the summer as you hit the groves.
Not to mention, of course, that we aren’t a blast furnace 24/7/365. It’s a very nice 60 degrees and sunny today. Great for walking, should one be inclined. I have my windows open while i work from home. Birds singing outside the window. We have a hoot owl that lives in our palm tree. But yeah, a hellhole. Best not to move here, or even visit.
I would personally prefer Phoenix weather to Chicago weather. I have endured Marrakesh heat, which is only a fraction cooler than phoenix, and I infinitely prefer dry heat to Florida heat.
My SO, on the other hand, wants me to add that she would definitely prefer Chicago weather. I daresay, however, that being from the Australian outback (Canberra) herself, she should handle desert conditions better than most
Have you tought about the Midwest? I live in Ohio. Yea, winters suck. But it’s incredibly cheap to live here. And there’s a lot to do in the larger cities.
