# My son has never heard "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 10, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181 "2018-04-10T19:38:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/21 "2018-04-10T20:38:11Z")
I can definitely get on board with some idea that we try to mix music class with learning history and such. It’is a more holistic approach. But I also never learned those songs in school. We learned stuff like Fifty Nifty (great way to learn all the states) and Yankee Doodle. And a song about Columbus I can barely remember. I’m pretty sure I learned those songs in church, actually–if not from the tapes of songs my mom bought me, as music was always important in my family, even though none of my parents can play or sing. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/22 "2018-04-10T20:38:45Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Any student these days that dared to sing such a violent song would be lucky to get off with a 3-day suspension. My first reaction back when Columbine happened (I was in high school) was that those ass holes had ruined many a great song that could never be sung again. Joy the world (my teacher’s dead), Deck the halls (with gasoline), On top of old Smokey (all covered in blood) they are all gone because if kids sing them they’ll probably go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/23 "2018-04-10T20:41:28Z")
We sang those songs in school when I was a kid, but we didn’t study them, and I certainly didn’t learn them there. I learned them from my mother, an immigrant who loved this country deeply. She loved “America the Beautiful” so much, we played it at her funeral. I’ll venture a guess: this is less about patriotic songs and more about the OP’s continuing theme, “Public schools are bad.” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/24 "2018-04-10T20:48:01Z")
Yes, by all means, let’s have our public schools teaching children Christian war songs. (Imagine 157,000 instances of the “rolly-eyes” smiley here.) And if we are to teach children war songs in school, let it be [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_iRIcxsz0) one. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/25 "2018-04-10T20:55:37Z")
I’ve reached out to my high school and college-aged kids and I’ll report back. **Flyer** – was that satire or something? I find that really unlikely. Did you know that I had to teach my kids _Safety Dance_?? I can’t believe they didn’t teach that in school. First of all, it’s about safety; second of all, dancing is good for your health; thirdly, the video is awesome and has a little person. Schools these days. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/26 "2018-04-10T21:02:38Z")
As an aside. In Spanish, this song is a purely religious one and we know it as “Gloria, Gloria, Aleluya” and has no war/combat overtones. The first verse is, for instance, goes like this: “Glory be to the Father Who created the world out of love Glory be to the Son who was born to save us from pain Glory be to the Divine Sprit of Love Let’s sing to the Lord.” In fact, whenever I’ve pointed out the connection with the US most people can’t even fathom it. ---
**Author:** ![dwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwyr/32/363_2.png) [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/27 "2018-04-10T21:36:26Z")
My sister’s boy knew “Big Butter Jesus” by the time he was in preschool. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/28 "2018-04-10T21:47:27Z")
We learned _My Country Tis of Thee_, _Battle Hymn of the Republic_, _As the Caissons Go Rolling Along_, _America the Beautiful_, _You’re a Grand Old Flag_ and other patriotic ditties as a school child. They didn’t hurt me any but they didn’t do anything to make me a better person either. So I can’t really see what difference it makes. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/29 "2018-04-10T21:51:37Z")
The original song (before it got the Battle Hymn words) was to glorify the memory of John Brown, a man who was more or less an anti-slavery terrorist. That was a well-known fact and a well-known song when the newer words were written. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/30 "2018-04-10T21:57:59Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > He also never learned [My Country Tis of Thee.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKj7FLg3WVA) It’s always been a bit disconcerting to me to sing the British national anthem with those lyrics. I mean, I guess I just grew up enjoying learning about national anthems as a kid, so my instinct is always to sing “My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, God save the Queen.” I mean, if you’re doing patriotic songs, at least come up with your own. (And, yes, I know where the tune to the Star Spangled Banner was reappropriated from as well. Yet another reason I prefer something like “America the Beautiful” as a national anthem.) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/31 "2018-04-10T22:13:23Z")
> [@cormac262](#): > > That would be “Dixie” and the confederate flag, not “Battle Hymn” (a union song) First, note the use of “ironically” -or- what sound does a glider make as it passes overhead? Second, “Battle Hymn” is a _Union_ song. “Solidarity Forever” is a _union_ song. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Did you know that I had to teach my kids _Safety Dance_?? I can’t believe they didn’t teach that in school. First of all, it’s about safety; second of all, dancing is good for your health; thirdly, the video is awesome and has a little person. On the other hand, it has gratuitous French content, which isn’t patriotic. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/32 "2018-04-10T22:14:34Z")
I just finished a biography of Winston Churchill’s youth. He wrote a letter in which he advocated education for the poor, but only reading, writing, “enough arithmetic to keep accounts”, a “gymnastics course”, and “the singing of patriotic songs.” This was before he actually went into politics. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/33 "2018-04-10T22:24:37Z")
I sang “Battle Hymn” in church as a child, “My country” in choir. My guess would be that your child doesn’t know these songs simply because they are older and not in rotation at your church/institution of learning. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/34 "2018-04-10T22:33:22Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > As an aside. > In Spanish, this song is a purely religious one and we know it as “Gloria, Gloria, Aleluya” and has no war/combat overtones. I’m also aware of a version of this song, with lyrics in French (except for the “Glory, Glory, Hallelujah” part), that’s a Christmas song (with lyrics about Christmas). I suppose it probably exists in several languages and is sung in several countries, either as a Christian song or as a secular Christmas song. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/35 "2018-04-10T22:36:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Ironically, there’s probably a large overlap between the people who think schools should be teaching children The Battle Hymn of the Republic and the people who display Confederate flags. Whats interesting is back in the day we also sang “Dixie”. But we just thought it was just another song. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/36 "2018-04-10T22:37:39Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > The original song (before it got the Battle Hymn words) was to glorify the memory of John Brown, a man who was more or less an anti-slavery terrorist. That was a well-known fact and a well-known song when the newer words were written. You would think that since we are in Kansas we would sing about Brown. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/37 "2018-04-10T22:47:05Z")
It’s a great tune; why should any one language have a monopoly on it? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/38 "2018-04-10T23:02:09Z")
OP, more seriously, The Battle Hymn of the Republic seems to be a totally religious song. It’s all about glory to God. I don’t even get why it’s a patriotic song – is it because the Union army sang it during the Civil War? I guess I could see learning about that in a high school history class or something. Read the lyrics – should they be in an elementary school, leaving out any war context? How about a majority Jewish public school? Majority Buddhist? Majority Hindu? High school kids don’t sing in class and elementary school kids wouldn’t get the context. Outside of the context, it’s just a Christian hymn. I’m interested in your opinion on that. Regarding my kids, they know both songs but don’t remember where they learned them. My Country was probably in school, but not sure about the other one. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/39 "2018-04-10T23:30:00Z")
> [@cormac262](#): > > That would be “Dixie” and the confederate flag, not “Battle Hymn” (a union song) What would be ironic about somebody singing “Dixie” and having a Confederate Flag? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181/40 "2018-04-11T00:29:45Z")
I always thought there was a smidgen of patriotic content in _The Star-Spangled Banner_. OP doesn’t mention if his kid learned that. I did learn the songs brought up by the OP when I was in school. It may be worth pointing out that they were a part of the music curriculum, and not the patriotism curriculum. OP, what songs _was_ your son taught in the classroom (if any)? Did your conversation touch on that topic? How old is your son, btw? ETA: I’ll also mention that both _the Battle Hymn of the Republic_ and _America_ were printed in the hymnals in the church I attended, as was _America, the Beautiful_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-has-never-heard-the-battle-hymn-of-the-republic/812181.md?page=3)