# My son was jumped by a couple of punks at school today **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 28, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530 "2011-05-28T04:51:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/141 "2011-06-09T15:27:21Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Is this even a serious question? Are you going to pretend that the only two responses to misbehaving children are to send them to jail or to “let it go”? I think the punishment **needscoffee** outlined sounds about right. As described in the OP this wasn’t just a little fight between three kids. Two kids planned to start a fight with a third and when the third wouldn’t co-operate they jumped him and proceeded to do a little two on one beat down. I don’t know if their history means that they need to be sent to “juvie” but the idea that they need actual consequences (as outlined by **needscoffee** ’s post) sounds pretty acceptable to me. In both the idea that it teaches them there are consequences and it doesn’t ruin their lives by automatically treating them as adults. One other thing it does (again as outlined by **needscoffee** is it creates a record that can let adult know if these are one time offenders who may have gotten carried away or if they actually are problem children. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/142 "2011-06-09T15:41:16Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > No, it was a simple fight between 3 kids that resulted in some scratches and a stubbed toe. 2 on 1 is not a fight. It’s a beating. I don’t care if there are no injuries and they’re stopped. The 2 need immediate, significant consequences to learn that lesson. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/143 "2011-06-09T15:47:16Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > 2 on 1 is not a fight. It’s a beating. And it’s not a stubbed toe, it’s a broken toe. I’m not sure how everyone seems to have missed that post. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/144 "2011-06-09T15:53:43Z")
**MeanOldLady** , I’ve said before that when bullying goes unchecked, thugs run the school. After they get their entire peer group under their thumbs, then they start threatening the adults. And at that point there’s nothing anyone can do. You’ll say it could never get to that point. Reactions like **Hamster King** describes are what keeps it from getting to that. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/145 "2011-06-09T15:56:43Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > And it’s not a stubbed toe, it’s a broken toe. I’m not sure how everyone seems to have missed that post. it’s not being missed, it’s being deliberately ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/146 "2011-06-09T16:01:39Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > And it’s not a stubbed toe, it’s a broken toe. I’m not sure how everyone seems to have missed that post. It’s not like it was a rib or a skull or anything important. Children will misbehave, after all. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/147 "2011-06-09T16:06:45Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > **MeanOldLady** , I’ve said before that when bullying goes unchecked, thugs run the school. After they get their entire peer group under their thumbs, then they start threatening the adults. And at that point there’s nothing anyone can do. You’ll say it could never get to that point. Reactions like **Hamster King** describes are what keeps it from getting to that. Good lord will ya’ll stop with the excluded middle. There’s no reason to think that **MeanOldLady** wants bullying to go unchecked. There is a vast range of options between ‘nothing’ and ‘call the cops’. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/148 "2011-06-09T16:07:28Z")
Suppose your kid “fights back” and gets suspended along with his attackers. Leaving out how wrong it is to punish any kid for fighting because fighting is a natural part of childhood, what do you do about the suspension? Tell the kid you’re proud of him and it doesn’t matter that he now has a discipline record and will probably take a grade penalty, as long as he acted like a real man with his fists? Or do you demand the school take back the suspension? I mean, fighting shouldn’t be punished, but if you protest the punishment, aren’t you asking for special treatment? ETA: In other words, what are the options between “nothing” and “call the cops”? If I’m excluding the middle, so is she. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/149 "2011-06-09T16:09:01Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > 2 on 1 is not a fight. It’s a beating. I don’t care if there are no injuries and they’re stopped. If you’re going to characterize any 2 on 1 fight as a “beating” regardless of the severity or circumstances, then fair enough. > [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s not like it was a rib or a skull or anything important. Children will misbehave, after all. I’ve broken my pinky toe running into doorways. But I get it. You guys resort to cops and lawyers to resolve every issue you have, including children’s school fights. This is the kind of thing I’d say is best left up to the kids’ parents and the principal. I know – don’t even say it. Anyone whose kid is this kind of hellion \*clearly \*isn’t a good parent whose judgment can be trusted to enact an appropriate punishment. Got it. Every kid who beats someone up at school is being raised by a negligent monster, which is why you have to drag the little shits to jail. You win. Edit: > [@treis](#): > > Good lord will ya’ll stop with the excluded middle. There’s no reason to think that **MeanOldLady** wants bullying to go unchecked. There is a vast range of options between ‘nothing’ and ‘call the cops’. No, they will not stop excluding the middle. Make a court case out of it (literally) or do nothing and have a serial killer on your hands. Those are your options. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/150 "2011-06-09T16:17:19Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Suppose your kid “fights back” and gets suspended along with his attackers. Leaving out how wrong it is to punish any kid for fighting because fighting is a natural part of childhood, what do you do about the suspension? Tell the kid you’re proud of him and it doesn’t matter that he now has a discipline record and will probably take a grade penalty, as long as he acted like a real man with his fists? Or do you demand the school take back the suspension? I mean, fighting shouldn’t be punished, but if you protest the punishment, aren’t you asking for special treatment? Huh? What does this have to do with anything? > [@Rilchiam](#): > > ETA: In other words, what are the options between “nothing” and “call the cops”? If I’m excluding the middle, so is she. You really aren’t aware of the discipline options available to a school between nothing and call the cops? ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/151 "2011-06-09T16:26:13Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > 2 on 1 is not a fight. It’s a beating. I don’t care if there are no injuries and they’re stopped. The 2 need immediate, significant consequences to learn that lesson. Well, it’s too bad then that the juvenile court system is the exact opposite of immediate and significant. Immediate and significant would have been the victim beating the holy hell out of the attackers, but I can see that being the wrong way to go (maybe). Maybe the principal picking them up by the collar and putting them to scrubbing the cafeteria floor while the parents are called, and keeping them there every Saturday at hard labor? Why aren’t kids made to work during detention? Lord knows most of our schools could use some maintenance help. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/152 "2011-06-09T16:27:39Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I’ve broken my pinky toe running into doorways. And I’ve needed 13 stitches in my temple following a skiing accident. Does that mean if someone hits me and splits my head open it’s not a big deal? > [@](#): > > Edit:No, they will not stop excluding the middle. Make a court case out of it (literally) or do nothing and have a serial killer on your hands. Those are your options. …says the person who described the incident as just “misbehaving children” because the physical damage didn’t exceed a certain level. I would be less likely to assume that you “don’t want bullying to go unchecked” if you weren’t so busy handwaving away an assault. Yes, it’s an assault. A minor one not warranting jail time, but an assault nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/153 "2011-06-09T16:28:38Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > It has been. But why should it be acceptable? Just because we adults had to go through it, our kids have to go through it? Does it not strike you as a little insane and pathetically sad to think that bullying is something we can do nothing about? This is the fucking first world, why shouldn’t we fix this problem? > > If we look on tolerantly while these neanderthals victimize their peers, they’re going to learn that it’s ok, and teach their kids that it’s ok, and raise yet another generation of bullies/bullied kids. Not the future I want for the next generation. Do you? > > I would have been too, if something this severe had happened to me. “Luckily” I was only a victim of girl-on-girl verbal bullying and posturing. It got pretty damn nasty, though never veered into physical territory. But, instead of feeding the instinct to denydenydeny (and letting them win btw), wouldn’t it be nice if the goddamn bullies were properly punished every time this shit happened? > > Being a nasty little bullying shit is NOT a requirement for anyone to achieve adulthood. We adults should stop treating bullying as a rite of passage, and start treating it as the serious problem that it is. Suicide is the third leading cause of death in teenagers, and most kids who kill themselves are victims of bullying. > > Oh, you were bullied and you turned out just fine, you say? [Shame](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=7228335) [about](http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/21/another-11-year-old-boy-commits-suicide-after-homophobic-bullying/) [the](http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/girls-teen-suicide-calls-attention-cyberbullying/story?id=9685026) [other](http://abcnews.go.com/US/gay-teen-suicide-sparks-debate/story?id=11788128) [victims](http://queercorner411.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/another-gay-teens-commits-suicide/) [that](http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/34236377/ns/today-today_people/t/sexting-bullying-cited-teens-suicide/) [didn’t](http://www.jaredstory.com/). Not that I have no sympathy for teenage suicide, but I just wanted to point out that your #3 cause of death scare statistics are a little off. Teenagers generally don’t die of old people diseases, like cancer and heart attacks, and it’s generally the healthiest time of life for most kids. Therefore, suicide shoots up the charts and lands at #3 because there’s not a whole lot to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/154 "2011-06-09T16:30:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And I’ve needed 13 stitches in my temple following a skiing accident. Does that mean if someone hits me and splits my head open it’s not a big deal? > …says the person who described the incident as just “misbehaving children” because the physical damage didn’t exceed a certain level. I would be less likely to assume that you “don’t want bullying to go unchecked” if you weren’t so busy handwaving away an assault. Yes, it’s an assault. A minor one not warranting jail time, but an assault nonetheless. And for some more excluded middle fun, don’t forget that all of us are accusing the perps of becoming serial killers if they are not checked. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/155 "2011-06-09T16:30:46Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You really aren’t aware of the discipline options available to a school between nothing and call the cops? You’re aware, aren’t you, that calling the cops won’t automatically result in these kids serving life sentences, right? They may have to go before a judge who might sentence them to some community service, some counselling, and financial restitution. That’s the middle that you’re excluding. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/156 "2011-06-09T16:35:16Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > You’re aware, aren’t you, that calling the cops won’t automatically result in these kids serving life sentences, right? They may have to go before a judge who might sentence them to some community service, some counselling, and financial restitution. > > That’s the middle that you’re excluding. Is there any evidence that those penalties will help, that they will think twice the next time? I don’t know how to solve this problem, but I’m not sure dragging the courts into it is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/157 "2011-06-09T16:39:41Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Is there any evidence that those penalties will help, that they will think twice the next time? No less evidence than the school and parents will help. At least the courts have the resources and experience to deal with this sort of thing. That’s why they’re there. I’m not sure why some people think that a school principal is more qualified than a family court judge. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/158 "2011-06-09T16:54:57Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > …Why aren’t kids made to work during detention? Lord knows most of our schools could use some maintenance help. I don’t know the rules in the location where this event occurred, but when I was teaching in NJ we were specifically directed by both our union and the school administration that nothing even remotely resembling corporal punishment was permitted by law. That included writing “I will not beat up Johnny” 500 times. (When I was on our local school board we twice in ten years fired teachers who undertook to employ physical punishment on students. There is no defense other than very obvious defense of one’s self or another person from physical danger. ) The student being punished could be required to sit quietly, to listen to a lecture about his/her behavior, or do some sort of study that was somehow related to the offense. Of course, with the middle-school kids I was dealing with at the time, a simple notice to the parents of the offenders often resulted in far worse punishment. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/159 "2011-06-09T17:03:10Z")
I told you to take it to GD. Take it to GD. This is closed. Because I don’t have time to deal with it right now, I’m not going to issue warnings for ignoring moderator instructions. I may reconsider that decision later. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530/160 "2011-06-10T02:20:25Z")
At post 80 I said this: > [@twickster](#): > > If people want to debate the pros and cons of how schools, public or private, treat physical fights among their kids, start a new thread in Great Debates. > > If you want to call each other sociopaths, take it to the Pit. > > This thread is for the specifics of **Hamster Kid** ’s experience, and that’s it. > > Any further off-topic comments, as I have just defined them, will get warnings. > > **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator At post 86 I said this: > [@twickster](#): > > **Ms. Robyn, treis** , if you want to talk about cops in schools as a policy issue, _take it to Great Debates_. > > **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator After that, people pretty much stayed on topic, talking about the OP’s situation or their own experiences. At post 111, **gurujulp** got going on his own experiences, but realized quickly he was going against what I had asked for and bowed out of the thread, starting a new thread. I was happy to let that go. Then we had about 20 posts where people continued to stay on topic, for the most part, until at post 131 we had this: > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Are you guys the same people who call the cops because your neighbor’s stereo is too loud? Cops? Lawyers? Courts? Juvie? Holy shit, why don’t you just send the kids to the chair because obviously any middle schooler who beats someone up on the playground is a hardened criminal who is done for. Don’t even bother to throw away the key. Fry 'em! > > For fuck’s sake, this pile on is absurd. **treis** is right. I guess that makes me a former schoolyard bully sticking up for the bad guys, too. > > Your definition of tangible consequence for this scuffle is going to juvie? > > Ridiculous. Go before a judge… Why don’t they go before the principal like every other kid in the universe who beats someone up at school? And then this: > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > People are lawyering up over playground slap fights? What kind of limp-wristed, delicate-snowflake-having, everybody’s-a-winner, milquetoast, overly-litigious bullshit is this? It is absolute insanity to sic attorneys on people because because two eleven year olds beat up another eleven year old on the schoolyard over some perceived threat of tattling. What is this, Revenge of the Nerds? > > Is this the new catchphrase of the SDMB? “Blaming the victim?” I’ve noticed any time someone remarks on an attack with anything other than “The offender is an irredeemable monster!” throngs of shrieking little girls cry out that somebody’s blaming the victim. Where, exactly, did \*\*Citizen \*\*blame the victim for any of this in that post? What I read in his post is it doesn’t seem accurate to paint the bullies here, because they beat up the OP’s kid, as a team of roving thugs who go around beating up other students randomly and for absolutely no reason. The kids were indeed assholes, and I don’t see anyone denying that, but let’s not start with this “blaming the victim” fall-back line because someone pointed out that the two kids didn’t just spot a passer-by and decide to attack. If she wanted to debate issues, she could have started a GD thread; if she wanted to insult all other participants in the thread (except **treis** ), she could have started a Pit thread. Instead she resumed an acrimonious debate in a thread that had pretty much died down. Since it had been a full day since the previous post, I can only assume she read the entire thread, including my two mod notes, where I laid out the GD and Pit alternatives. . I am therefore issuing **MeanOldLady** a warning for ignoring moderator instructions. **twickster** , MPSIMS modertor [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-son-was-jumped-by-a-couple-of-punks-at-school-today/583530.md?page=7)