# My Star Trek Gripe. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262 "2017-10-31T02:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/21 "2017-10-31T23:17:13Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Yes. They fixed that on TNG with Riker leading the Away Teams. Didn’t Picard usually overrule Riker and beam down, anyway? “Captain’s prerogative, Number One. Make it so.” ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/22 "2017-11-01T00:50:05Z")
Gold is actually green. The Federation has many alien members that probably don’t see colors like we do, especially given different planetary studio lighting and cameras. So, who knows what Star Fleet style consultants have to deal with. > [@Colibri](#): > > One of the things that always annoyed me on TOS was that the landing party, going into unknown dangers, almost always included _both_ the Captain and second in command, _and_ the ship’s doctor. :smack: Even the M5 unit didn’t like Kirk’s landing party choices. But, it’s his chance to get away from the ship with his buddies, so give him a break. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/23 "2017-11-01T04:36:04Z")
The OP is just wrong. Uniforms change all the time, even in stable bureaucracies. Even language changes. Heraldry changes as well, due to political shifts at various scales. Extrapolating from your relatively conservative 20th Century national army to a 24th Century space navy for a growing federation of planets is a little unimaginative. Picard’s Starfleet is experimental enough to make its flagship a flying city with crew’s families aboard. It includes planets and even species that weren’t in the Federation in Kirk’s era. There may be political reasons for the change you don’t even know. Starfleet, for whatever bureaucratic reason, changes its uniforms _a lot._ The color-coding from TOS era reappearing in TNG era a bit scrambled is really not that odd. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/24 "2017-11-01T18:50:56Z")
One could, I suppose, claim that as new species joined the Federation their color traditions might need to be dealt with, ‘WTF? That’s a hookers hue on my homeworld.’ ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/25 "2017-11-01T19:02:38Z")
Starfleet might be a military, but it isn’t the US military. The US military was bombed into nonexistence during WWIII and the Post-Nuclear Horrors. It collapsed into factionalism at best and, more likely, outright banditry and warlordism. And this isn’t even fanwank: It’s canon from multiple series and a couple movies, at least. So the entity that launched the various iterations of the USS _Enterprise_ wasn’t the USA any more than France or Germany is Rome. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/26 "2017-11-01T19:09:59Z")
Maybe in the future, human’s aren’t so concerned about silly traditions/conventions. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/27 "2017-11-01T19:28:37Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > For example, the US Army has long associated the color blue with infantry, red with artillery, and gold/yellow with cavalry. You could identify which branch a soldier on ether side of the Civil War was in by the color of the piping on their uniforms or the4 stripes on their pant legs. And it still goes on. What makes you think they’d use the colors of the US military? The Federation is, after all, a single Earth government. Why choose the US? Why not India? Or France? Or, as would be likely under the circumstance, a color scheme that wasn’t identified with any particular government. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/28 "2017-11-01T20:31:55Z")
Considering that replicator technology basically turned the entire Federation into a Post-Scarcity Economy, I’m surprised that _any_ traditions survived. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/29 "2017-11-03T00:16:16Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > What makes you think they’d use the colors of the US military? > > The Federation is, after all, a single Earth government. Why choose the US? Why not India? Or France? Or, as would be likely under the circumstance, a color scheme that wasn’t identified with any particular government. I never said they’s use the heraldic colors of the US military. I said they’d remain consistent to the Federation’s colors. They start talking about swapping Gold and Red and EVERY senior captain and admiral in Command and Engineering is going to gripe. And every retired Captain and Admiral too. And the retired ones are going to complain to elected Federation officials. And to Federation veteran’s groups. And to the press. And retired Admirals end up on Boards of Directors. And as Deans or Presidents or Chancellors of higher educational institutions. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/30 "2017-11-03T00:52:52Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The khakis (“pinks”) and browns of the WWII era and up into the '60s were by far the sharpest uniforms in the last hundred years or so. The greens, a bit less so, especially after those sickeningly lime-green shirts were introduced back in the '80s. > > The blue-and-yellow-and-black-beret-topped uniforms they have now are a farce. They look like Civil War playsuits for spoiled little rich children. > > I was watching TV not long ago and was shocked that the USAF’s blue uniforms seem to have been supplanted by some kind of dark grey or SS-black outfit. Please tell me this was a color freakout on my set and not a real thing. The Army Blue uniform should have stayed a full/ceremonial dress uniform like Marine Blues, or at the very least they should have come up with a buff shirt (the historic contrasting color) for everyday wear and a way to visibly switch the coat from office-dress to ceremonial wear. Although to be fair, historically ceremonial dress was just the “business” dress, but blinged up (this is so for the Navy, CG and AF). And just today I rode the DC Metro into Capitol Hill sharing the car with what must have been half of some USAF command’s staff and they were all wearing good old AF blue. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/31 "2017-11-03T12:56:07Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > The uniforms have changed, but the heraldry doesn’t. It’s still Infantry (Light, Airborne, Mechanized) Blue, Artillery (Field, Air Defense, Missile) Red, and Cavalry (Scout, Armor, and Airmobile) Yellow/Gold. And they changed the uniform emblem from one for every ship to the Enterprise emblem being used to represent every ship and Starfleet. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/32 "2018-09-15T00:03:58Z")
I know I’m reviving a dead thread, but having just watched season one of _Star Trek: Discovery_ I have thoughts about Star Trek uniforms. > [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > They start talking about swapping Gold and Red and EVERY senior captain and admiral in Command and Engineering is going to gripe. And every retired Captain and Admiral too. And the retired ones are going to complain to elected Federation officials. And to Federation veteran’s groups. And to the press. And retired Admirals end up on Boards of Directors. And as Deans or Presidents or Chancellors of higher educational institutions. See, for this and other kinds of gripes about Starfleet based on the experiences of real, contemporary (especially U.S.) military service, I think it completely misses one of the major points of Star Trek. Starfleet is _not_ part of the legacy of U.S. or other current military traditions. It has some of the trappings of them, but it’s part of a very different culture that has grown out of a unified and peaceful Earth and subsequent peaceful integration with alien races. So when it comes to Star Trek, I don’t think it’s valid to say things like “every senior captain and admiral is going to gripe” based on personal experience about what people in real, contemporary military organizations gripe about. They’re a different society and a different civilization, with a different experience than we have. Maybe they just never learned to care about things like heraldic traditions? This is a basic fact of Star Trek, that their uniform details change frequently and drastically. It’s just something you have to expect. Look at the way rank insignia changes wildly. TOS and TMP: sleeve cuff stripes, like traditional navies WOK and subsequent movies: Weird little icons on the shoulder straps that aren’t recognizable as contemporary rank symbols TNG and subsequent: Pips that keep moving around to different places In Star Trek, we’re watching a culture that is accustomed to drastic changes in style for these things. That’s part of the ethos. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/33 "2018-09-16T05:30:40Z")
Maybe they shouldn’t be called “uniforms”, because they aren’t… you know… uniform. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/34 "2018-09-16T05:44:48Z")
The reason for the change I think matches the real world. There was a point in between the two eras where everyone just wore red. So I think the colors got mixed around. Plus, I bet the redshirt stereotype even permeated Starfleet. Maybe that’s why uniforms all became red. And then, when they went back, security refused to be red again. I mean, red is proven (for Humans at least) to be the most noticeable color–maybe they didn’t want to be a walking target anymore. And it seems to have worked: there was never a replacement of redshirt with goldshirt as the ones most likely to die. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/35 "2018-09-16T06:31:54Z")
Can you imagine the nightmare of getting intergalactic agreement on something as ultimately inconsequential as uniforms? Maybe there was a memo sent around after a particularly exasperating round of fabric negotiations: Starfleet Command Memorandum 675487980878065 Re: Starfleet Uniform Intergalactic Re-Standardization, Stage CXCLXVIII You know what? Fuck it. Just… fuck it. I’m done with this. Wear something, OK? I trust you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/36 "2018-09-16T06:38:16Z")
BTW: Those are not Roman numerals, that’s the abbreviation for the committee chairbeing’s favourite uniform colour. It’s pronounced the same as “Valve”, except miss out the L and the A. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/37 "2018-09-16T06:52:53Z")
Star Trek’s made up. I think they made up good colours, even if they don’t fit with what current-day earth military might have done. (that mustard yellow would look horrible on Patrick Stewart, you can’t have your main actor looking like he’s just stepped out of a crypt.) ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/38 "2018-09-16T14:17:29Z")
I’m still waiting for the crew of the _Enterprise_ to be put on trial by the Stephen Jay Gouldians for continually misusing the word “evolved.” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262/39 "2018-09-16T14:54:36Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > I’m still waiting for the crew of the _Enterprise_ to be put on trial by the Stephen Jay Gouldians for continually misusing the word “evolved.” The courts are clogged with every SF movie and TV series ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-star-trek-gripe/800262.md?page=1)