# My take on God, if anybody cares. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 25, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372 "2011-12-25T19:16:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/181 "2011-12-29T00:41:24Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Reality is debatable. Yes. > [@Theophane](#): > > Reality depends on perception. There is nothing without perception. Ok. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Then what was the universe doing during the several billion years that elapsed between the big bang and the evolution of the first perception organs? How do you know that reality is there? > [@Theophane](#): > > You can’t prove that. How do you know that reality is there? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/182 "2011-12-29T01:00:22Z")
I asked the same question to **Theophane** and \*\*The Hamster King \*\* because I am not a solipsist. I ask the question to everyone, [including](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14608631&postcount=116) **Czarcasm** : How do you know that reality is there? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/183 "2011-12-29T01:04:42Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I asked the same question to **Theophane** and \*\*The Hamster King \*\* because I am not a solipsist. > I ask the question to everyone, [including](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14608631&postcount=116) **Czarcasm** : > > How do you know that reality is there? Sounds like a great topic for another thread to me. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/184 "2011-12-29T01:05:10Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I asked the same question to **Theophane** and \*\*The Hamster King \*\* because I am not a solipsist. > I ask the question to everyone, [including](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14608631&postcount=116) **Czarcasm** : > > How do you know that reality is there? If it’s not, you aren’t there either, and I sure didn’t ask this question. So you must exist, and some outer reality exists, or I’m having one hell of a dream. I refuse to believe you’re dreaming me. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/185 "2011-12-29T01:16:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sounds like a great topic for another thread to me. Yes; however, I thought I salvage **nole.**'s thread. I’d be interested in your answer to the question and I’d be even more interested in you replying to [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14608785&postcount=120). :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/186 "2011-12-29T01:19:31Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Yes; however, I thought I salvage **nole.**'s thread. I’d be interested in your answer to the question and I’d be even more interested in you replying to [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14608785&postcount=120). :eek: Reality is what it is, and will be what it is whether we perceive it or not, in my opinion, and I have seen no evidence otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/187 "2011-12-29T01:25:19Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Reality depends on perception. There is nothing without perception. There is nothing without reality. You can’t prove that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/188 "2011-12-29T04:30:10Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > How do you know that reality is there? SOMETHING is out there, even if that something is merely a Matrix-like simulation, or my own subconscious playing tricks. The “something that’s out there” generates sensory inputs that demonstrate a degree of organization. By noticing patterns in my sensory inputs, I’m able to construct a model of “reality” that has predictive value. It doesn’t really matter if the “reality” that I’m modelling is really there, or is an elaborate simulation, or is a delusion. The truths that I learn about its behavior are valid whatever its fundamental nature happens to be. It just so happens that treating reality as real is a convenient way to model the “something that’s out there”. That doesn’t mean that I’ve proven reality is real, only that I accept it as a provisional computational convenience. If you’re able to articulate an alternate conceptual frame that better accounts for my perceptions and has superior predictive value, I’ll happily switch. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/189 "2011-12-29T06:17:43Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > 1. Nothing-- he’s spirit. > 2. No, he’s inaudible. > 3. There are certain things the spirit would never say. > > Are you freaked out yet? Could one of the things the spirit _would_ say be a description of the items currently resting on top of my television set? I’m willing to take a picture, encrypt it, send it to a mutually agreeable neutral third party and await the spirit to pass details on to you. At that point, I’ll send the key to the third party, let them decrypt the image and determine how accurate the description is. An accurate description wouldn’t freak me out, but it _would_ interest me in further study. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/190 "2011-12-29T06:42:58Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > There is nothing without reality. You can’t prove that. What would valid proof, or even evidence, consist of in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/191 "2011-12-29T07:34:15Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Just this afternoon, I was having lunch at my favourite local diner at a table by myself (:() and the Holy Spirit was counselling me as he always does. By any chance was God saying “would you like fries with that”? > [@Kozmik](#): > > How do you know that reality is there? I’m real, therefore at least some reality exists. As for the rest, it’s a simpler and less arrogant assumption than claiming I’m somehow imagining a consistent universe. And if reality _isn’t_ there my positions on the nature of reality don’t matter since there’s no one to care. “If there is no reality” then we might as well not have a conversation, because there’s no one to have a conversation with. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/192 "2011-12-29T07:37:46Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Largely, it’s an argument based on “it’s how I was brought up”. > > So someone’s parents and teachers told them something all through their childhood. > > No Stephen Hawking, Brian Cox, or Richard Dawkins will ever override that. No amount of scientific reasoning. Basically, they were told that in their formative years, and it’s ingrained. To be fair, and I’ve raised this point before, ALL people use ingrained knowledge as fact. You didn’t do all the experiments, you didn’t always utilize the scientific method, you don’t completely understand all the science behind everything. You just believe what someone said about this subject, perhaps even a middle school science teacher. The likelihood of a correct answer isn’t the point, the foundation for your decision is the point. How is a child trusting a teacher over a priest that fundamentally different? Not that science doesn’t win (who in their right mind would chose prayer over cancer treatment?) but the arrogance of your position is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/193 "2011-12-29T09:01:47Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > The likelihood of a correct answer isn’t the point, the foundation for your decision is the point. How is a child trusting a teacher over a priest that fundamentally different? The priest is feeding them nonsense that they’d almost certainly never buy into if they weren’t children, for one. That’s why they are teaching it to children. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/194 "2011-12-29T11:41:25Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > To be fair, and I’ve raised this point before, ALL people use ingrained knowledge as fact. You didn’t do all the experiments, you didn’t always utilize the scientific method, you don’t completely understand all the science behind everything. > > You just believe what someone said about this subject, perhaps even a middle school science teacher. Untrue. I did plenty of experiments at school and saw the results for myself, and I have plenty of solid evidence all around me every day to direct me to a conclusion beyond any reasonable doubt that the scientific method provides real results. The more advanced stuff that I don’t understand falls into two categories: a) I can see my GPS, my cellphone, my TV, airplanes working. Just because I can’t build one doesn’t mean I refute the clear evidence in front of my eyes that they do. b) I do, indeed, take some stuff on faith (particle physics being a big example); but the evidence of (a) builds a reasonable degree of trust for (b). > [@](#): > > The likelihood of a correct answer isn’t the point, the foundation for your decision is the point. How is a child trusting a teacher over a priest that fundamentally different? Depends on your teacher, I suppose. Yours may have just told you stuff and asked you to believe him/her, but my science teachers were very strict about evidence based methodology, experimentation, and discovery. > [@](#): > > Not that science doesn’t win (who in their right mind would chose prayer over cancer treatment?) but the arrogance of your position is ridiculous. I don’t even understand what that means; sorry. As I said in my post, I also have the vestige of ingrained religion. Are you under the impression that I was claiming immunity from it? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/195 "2011-12-29T12:29:28Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But is using the word “God” really convenient? I agree that this particular definition of the word isn’t something unique to you. > > But the trouble is that most people don’t use the word “God” that way. Suppose for a moment that instead of saying “God” you said “Zeus”. Wouldn’t you agree that calling the Uncaused First Cause of the universe “Zeus” leads people to believe that this ineffible force has some sort of characteristics in common with Zeus? Like, that it sometimes takes the form of a swan or a bull or a shower of gold and has sex with human women and fathers demigods and heroes? Or maybe cause a virgin to become pregnant and give birth in a stable and lay the baby in a manger? > > Using the word “God” tends to drag in all sorts of unexamined premises about the nature of this uncaused first cause. If you want to talk about an uncaused first cause without dragging in all sorts of unintended mythology, then instead of using the word “God”, why not just use “Uncaused First Cause”, or “The sum total of all physical laws in the Universe”, or whatever it is you exactly intend to refer to? > > This the way you should proceed if you wish to communicate clearly. On the other hand, perhaps you really do wish to sneak in these sorts of unexamined assumptions about the nature of reality. Then go ahead, but don’t get upset when people start arguing with you and chasing their tails when talking to you, because that’s what you wanted in the first place. I wonder if the OP meant the word God differently than you see it, to Him it isn’t a name(Like Zeus or any other name for any God) It is like saying(as I understand him) the word for the totality of all that exists, not ‘a’ God,but Being or existence. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/196 "2011-12-29T12:37:38Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > God is uncaused. God existed before the Big Bang, before the universe. The rational mind abhors an unsolvable riddle. It will either try to solve the unsolvable riddle and keep trying forever or simply abandon the riddle. Like a child angrily throwing a Rubik’s Cube across a room after it has spent hours and hours trying unsuccessfully to solve it. If you are saying God existed then he was in existence…who created that? If God is not in existence he doesn’t exist! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/197 "2011-12-29T12:40:28Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > I dunno, that’s a theoretical. I don’t think I could do either. Can anyone prove divine inspiration? That is a matter of belief. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/198 "2011-12-29T12:42:47Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > God created the universe by speaking it into existence, so wouldn’t it make sense that God Himself predates the universe? > > Only Stephen Hawking knows for sure … 😛 If he exists, then he was predated by existence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/199 "2011-12-30T17:26:40Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I asked the same question to **Theophane** and \*\*The Hamster King \*\* because I am not a solipsist. And I \*answered \*your question. Any comments on that answer? Do I get a gold star? ---
**Author:** ![Schyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Schyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schyler)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/200 "2011-12-30T20:13:50Z")
I believe in God as well. But only in the sense that something “out there” must guide our lives. I’ve seen really odd things happen, good or bad, which simply can not be confused with coincidence. Cannot be explained in terms of reality. And honestly, what hope has humanity if we didn’t believe in “something”. More so if your theory of “10 levels of being” exists. It would possibly hint at the possibility that someone “is” out there watching. That we are participating in a huge human recycling system. It would give credence to the phenomenon of “past lives”. That the “white light” people see who have a near death experience might be merely a vacuum between “levels”. That some of our earthly journey (mentally or spiritually) might be taken with us between levels as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372.md?page=11)