# My take on God, if anybody cares. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 25, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372 "2011-12-25T19:16:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/101 "2011-12-27T19:34:01Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > It means **anything** is more appealing than the notion of God. I agree - God’s a pretty unappealing notion if you don’t start off assuming it’s a good thing. But that has nothing to do with string theory. Your comment seems to have been idle snark, and I guess it sounded good to you, but I don’t think it meant anything. You could’ve said “four dimensions and no room for God.” What does that mean? String theory is an attempt to explain why the universe looks the way it does and what it’s made of. The theory has drawn its share of criticism and we’ve yet to see if it will really hold up. But it’s not something that people cooked up just to deny the existence of God (or any gods). There aren’t a lot of theories or philosophies that exist _just_ to deny the existence of deities. I know some religious types are fond of returning to this point, but it’s kind of self-centered. Most things that scientists do (or atheists, or skeptics) has nothing to do with gods. It’s not a denial, an affirmation, or a response. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/102 "2011-12-27T19:35:29Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > It means **anything** is more appealing than the notion of God. Doesn’t matter what, just as long as denies a Creator. That’s an unfair distortion of the scientific position. A correct description of it would be: anything which has some evidence for it is more appealing than anything which does not. Science deals with the empirical; if they found some empirical evidence of God, scientists would be perfectly happy to accept it. The fact is, they haven’t - as you know. They’re not against any form of factual knowledge as long as there is evidence to support it. Some of the theories you’ve cited might sound fantastical - and, hell, they do - but it is possible to mathematically model these things. It is not possible to mathematically model God, so why on earth would you criticize scientists for not doing so? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/103 "2011-12-27T19:49:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I agree - God’s a pretty unappealing notion if you don’t start off assuming it’s a good thing. But that has nothing to do with string theory. Your comment seems to have been idle snark, and I guess it sounded good to you, but I don’t think it meant anything. You could’ve said “four dimensions and no room for God.” What does that mean? > > String theory is an attempt to explain why the universe looks the way it does and what it’s made of. The theory has drawn its share of criticism and we’ve yet to see if it will really hold up. But it’s not something that people cooked up just to deny the existence of God (or any gods). There aren’t a lot of theories or philosophies that exist _just_ to deny the existence of deities. I know some religious types are fond of returning to this point, but it’s kind of self-centered. Most things that scientists do (or atheists, or skeptics) has nothing to do with gods. It’s not a denial, an affirmation, or a response. If it’s not a denial, an affirmation, or a response, what could it possibly be? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/104 "2011-12-27T19:51:53Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > If it’s not a denial, an affirmation, or a response, what could it possibly be? Reality. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/105 "2011-12-27T19:53:24Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > If it’s not a denial, an affirmation, or a response, what could it possibly be? It is an action undertaken for reasons that have nothing to do with any god. String theory isn’t intended to prove a god exists, it’s not intended to disprove the existence of gods, and it’s not intended to replace them. It’s intended to explain the makeup of the universe and address issues like why matter has mass. What I am saying is that religious people (usually fundamentalists) are in the habit of assuming that atheists and scientists are constantly going out and doing things to replace God or reject God, and they’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/106 "2011-12-27T19:59:54Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > If it’s not a denial, an affirmation, or a response, what could it possibly be? It doesn’t address the subject at all. It’s not a denial, affirmation, or indeed a response any more than this post is a denial, affirmation, or response to my friends’ dislike of _Star Wars_. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/107 "2011-12-27T20:55:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Reality. Reality is debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/108 "2011-12-27T21:06:13Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Reality is debatable. _Perception_ of it is debatable-reality is there whether you perceive it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/109 "2011-12-27T21:50:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Perception_ of it is debatable-reality is there whether you perceive it or not. Right you are! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/110 "2011-12-27T22:03:41Z")
We’ve definitely seen sarcasm before, **Theophane**. That’s not really sarcastic enough or biting enough to make an impression. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/111 "2011-12-28T01:51:48Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > God created the universe by speaking it into existence, so wouldn’t it make sense that God Himself predates the universe? And what evidence do you have that God created the universe? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/112 "2011-12-28T02:15:34Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > And what evidence do you have that God created the universe? If God didn’t create the universe, where did it come from? And why is it so chock-full of order? 😕 Please note, I am _NOT_ here to evangelize. So save your vitriol. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/113 "2011-12-28T02:19:09Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > If God didn’t create the universe, where did it come from? And why is so full of order? > > 😕 > Please note, I am _NOT_ here to evangelize. And yet… Repeat after me: “_I Don’t Know_” Again: “_I Don’t Know_” Once more: “_I Don’t Know_” In the future, when asked something that you don’t know the answer to, just repeat these magic words and all will be well. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/114 "2011-12-28T02:28:47Z")
I’m clearly invisible. Just so you know, I created the universe. Sorry about Simon Cowell. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/115 "2011-12-28T03:26:05Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > I’m clearly invisible. > > Just so you know, I created the universe. Sorry about Simon Cowell. That’s OK. You more than made up for Cowell with Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/116 "2011-12-28T05:08:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Perception_ of it is debatable-reality is there whether you perceive it or not. _Perception_ of it is not debatable-reality is there whether [it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality) can be perceived or not. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/117 "2011-12-28T05:30:39Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > If God didn’t create the universe, where did it come from? Spontaneous quantum fluctuation. > [@](#): > > And why is it so chock-full of order? The universe at its moment of creation was a pretty disordered place. And the order that has arisen in the billions of year since creation is the product of some fairly well-understood natural processes: gravitation, thermodynamics, natural selection. Now compare the disordered chaos of the universe immediately after the big bang with the highly ordered structure of any hypothetical deity. A God that can think and plan and do things must be a \*complicated \*thing. Invoking a more complicated thing to explain a simpler thing doesn’t make any sense. If the universe is too ordered to have appeared spontaneously, then so is God. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/118 "2011-12-28T05:45:29Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Spontaneous quantum fluctuation. > > The universe at its moment of creation was a pretty disordered place. And the order that has arisen in the billions of year since creation is the product of some fairly well-understood natural processes: gravitation, thermodynamics, natural selection. Other way around. Entropy increases with time, not vice versa. The early universe was much more uniform than it is now. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/119 "2011-12-28T05:49:07Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Other way around. Entropy increases with time, not vice versa. The early universe was much more uniform than it is now. Entropy increases \*globally \*with time. However, the current universe has \*localized \*structures that are more complicated than anything present at the time of the big bang, even though the universe as a whole is more disordered. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/120 "2011-12-28T06:11:48Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > _Perception_ of it is not debatable-reality is there whether [it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality) can be perceived or not. Reality depends on perception. There is nothing without perception. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372.md?page=7)