# My take on God, if anybody cares. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 25, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372 "2011-12-25T19:16:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/161 "2011-12-28T18:57:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What does he look like? Does he have a deep voice? If he only speaks in your mind, how do you tell your thoughts from his? 1. Nothing-- he’s spirit. 2. No, he’s inaudible. 3. There are certain things the spirit would never say. Are you freaked out yet? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/162 "2011-12-28T19:04:57Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > 1. Nothing-- he’s spirit. > 2. No, he’s inaudible. > 3. There are certain things the spirit would never say. > > Are you freaked out yet? Why in the world would I be “freaked out” by you making the same tired and unsupported claims made by so many others on this board over the years? 1. If he’s a spirit and you didn’t see him, it could have been your imagination. 2. If he’s inaudible, the only talking you did was with yourself. For your sake, I hope you didn’t do any of your “conversation” out loud where others could hear. 3. Who are you, that you know what a spirit might or might not say? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/163 "2011-12-28T19:10:28Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > 1. There are certain things the spirit would never say. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. Who are you, that you know what a spirit might or might not say? “God wouldn’t say that” certainly isn’t supported by the Old Testament or by the idea that humans can’t know God’s will. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/164 "2011-12-28T19:15:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “God wouldn’t say that” certainly isn’t supported by the Old Testament or by the idea that humans can’t know God’s will. Why is it that when I see something along the line of “You cannot know the will of God…” it is almost immediately followed by a claim that in essence says “…but _I_ can.”? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/165 "2011-12-28T19:19:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why don’t you just stick with whatever it is you think religion explains, and leave the talking about what science is or isn’t to those that have at least looked up the word in a dictionary? Now that’s just plain nasty. Atheists make themselves look bad by doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/166 "2011-12-28T19:22:12Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Now that’s just plain nasty. > > Atheists make themselves look bad by doing this. Interesting that you scrolled back up the thread to find this and comment on it. 😉 The bottom line is that post indicated no understanding of science, and that’s assuming **commoncents** meant what he said. The post doesn’t say anything about atheists as a group. It’s a comment by an individual. ---
**Author:** ![HeeHaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@HeeHaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeeHaw)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/167 "2011-12-28T19:28:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If Man’s intelligence is finite, they we could possibly be wrong in our unfounded conclusion that God’s intelligence is infinite. True. Good point. I suppose the assumption that God’s intelligence is infinite is a matter of faith, as is all things concerning God. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/168 "2011-12-28T19:30:58Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > It’s clear you’ve reached the stage where you are no longer able to defend your position, but are still unwilling to concede the point. I’ve reached **the end** of my position. There’s nothing more I can say about it. This is not an argument I’m trying to “win.” I’m not trying to “beat” you. I just want to say what I have to say. The mounting **:mad: hostility:mad:** in this thread is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/169 "2011-12-28T19:34:40Z")
> [@HeeHaw](#): > > True. Good point. I suppose the assumption that God’s intelligence is infinite is a matter of faith, as is all things concerning God. And Man, being fallible, is capable of misplacing faith. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/170 "2011-12-28T19:39:32Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Now that’s just plain nasty. > > Atheists make themselves look bad by doing this. Really? To whom? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/171 "2011-12-28T19:42:46Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Really? To whom? People who are predisposed to dislike them. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/172 "2011-12-28T19:52:13Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > This is not an argument I’m trying to “win.” I’m not trying to “beat” you. I just want to say what I have to say. The forum is called **Great Debates** , not Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share. The expectation is that if you’re posting here, it’s because you’re defending a particular position. You’re no longer able to mount a defense, and so you’re looking for a face-saving way out. “I wasn’t really trying to debate” is a fairly common one. > [@](#): > > The mounting **:mad: hostility:mad:** in this thread is pointless. You mistake my tone. I’m not mad at you. I’m DEBATING you. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/173 "2011-12-28T20:00:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > God is a needlessly multiplied entity. When we’re talking about cosmology, that’s the problem: we have a model of the universe that seems to work just fine without producing evidence for God, but under the God model we somehow have to create a way for something that predates the universe, doesn’t obey its laws, and can act on the universe without being in it. What if your model is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/174 "2011-12-28T20:03:24Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > What if your model is wrong? I’m sure our understanding of the universe will continue to be revised. The evidence behind the Big Bang is strong and I wouldn’t expect that to be overturned, but if the facts say it needs to be replaced with a better theory, that’s what will happen. I mentioned the Steady State theory earlier. Dark matter was a surprise and so is the increasing rate of expansion of the universe. That’s what is good about science: it’s a method of inquiry and understanding, not a series of answers that need to be justified. Science doesn’t give you answers like “That’s not for us to understand” on scientific issues. ---
**Author:** ![DaveBfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DaveBfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveBfd)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/175 "2011-12-28T20:03:52Z")
Our model is limited in the ways it can be wrong, and any future models would have to accommodate all of the information which lead us to this position. So, if our model is wrong it is likely the right model is some variation of it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/176 "2011-12-28T20:04:36Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > What if your model is wrong? It probably is, in some respects. If science finds evidence that a theory is wrong, people work to find a correction. You religious folk, however, deny that evidence is even necessary for your God, and so essentially claim your model _can’t_ be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/177 "2011-12-28T20:04:45Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > What if your model is wrong? The model fits the evidence and observations made to date. Do you have evidence that might challenge the model? If so, the model can be revised as needed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/178 "2011-12-28T21:41:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > People who are predisposed to dislike them. 😉 It’s a price I’m willing to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/179 "2011-12-28T22:35:12Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > It probably is, in some respects. If science finds evidence that a theory is wrong, people work to find a correction. > > You religious folk, however, deny that evidence is even necessary for your God, and so essentially claim your model _can’t_ be wrong. Largely, it’s an argument based on “it’s how I was brought up”. So someone’s parents and teachers told them something all through their childhood. No Stephen Hawking, Brian Cox, or Richard Dawkins will ever override that. No amount of scientific reasoning. Basically, they were told that in their formative years, and it’s ingrained. I know this because I was brought up Catholic. And although fully on the side of empirical study, some small part of my psyche will never let me absolutely declare “there is no God” - even though I understand why that is so, and even though I am happy to argue the empirical evidence requirement for such things. One tiny bit of me doesn’t let me take that final step. Why? Other than the psychology of my upbringing (read: indoctrination) it is also comforting to accept the possibility. This is, I know, entirely in my own brain, and I would never argue it. I’ll argue the opposite. But understanding how and why your opponent believes as such is always important. ---
**Author:** ![Dennis\_Arthur\_PERRETT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3e96dc/32.png) [@Dennis\_Arthur\_PERRETT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dennis_Arthur_PERRETT)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/180 "2011-12-28T23:44:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So it would make no difference to you to replace the word “God” with, say, “Codora” or “Fallano”? Its Howard. Its in the Lord’s Prayer… “Our Father who art in Heaven. HOWARD be thy name”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372.md?page=10)