# MY Test for Telekinesis... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508 "2010-06-17T03:33:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/1 "2010-06-17T03:33:28Z")
As you all may know, I sometimes come up with ideas of various kinds. Then I wonder (perhaps needlessly) if my ideas would be of benefit to science in general. One idea I have is to determine if there really is such a thing as telekinesis (you know, the alleged psychic ability to move things _with your mind_). I get more skeptical with age, it seems. So presently I think not. No matter though. I think I have the perfect test to prove if there really is such a thing for once and for all. Please read: Why not take an object, perhaps very small (so it won’t take _too_ much mental power;)), and hook it up with **very** sensitive electrodes–or whatever you call something electronic that measures _very_ small movement (I’m talking about on the nanometer scale, if that’s any help). Then put human subjects in a room behind bulletproof glass (so there is NO way they can move it thru slight of hand of ANY kind). Then tell them to concentrate, and see if there is _any_ movement, however microscopically small. There. If there is really such a thing as telekinesis, I would think even the average person will be able to create movement on this scale. Actually, I have become more inspired as of late to share some of my ideas. Because apparently I may not be too far off with some of my ideas. Do any of you remember my idea of “[circasepian](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=513919&goto=newpost)” rhythms? (To refresh your memory, these are cycles on something other than strictly biological clocks.) Anyways, I didn’t find a similiar theory that is **exactly** like mine. But it is still at least ironic that “[Circaseptan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circaseptan)” rhythms is so close. Circaseptan rhythms are on the 7-day scale, like mine. And even the name is similiar. No, I did not come up with this idea after reading about it and then forgetting. Somehow I came up with my theory independent of the Circaseptan one. It is ironic, is all I’m saying. I would be interested in hearing what some of you think of my telekinesis test. Please feel free to tell me your thoughts, even if critical:). (BTW, if anyone has come up with my theory before, I would love hearing about that too naturally.) ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/2 "2010-06-17T03:39:33Z")
I can make the crotch in my jeans rise through concentration. And twins. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/3 "2010-06-17T03:48:29Z")
Better test. Take the alleged telekinetic to a casino. Let’s see him telekinesis the dice or roulette ball for an unlikely number of consecutive wins. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/4 "2010-06-17T08:03:52Z")
How about this: Mindflex Game > **[Amazon.com: Mindflex Game : Toys & Games](https://www.amazon.com/Mattel-P2639-Mindflex-Game/dp/B001UEUHCG)** > > Amazon.com Mindflex--featuring a headset that reads your brain waves and a levitating foam ball--is the kind of game that must be seen to be believed. Recommended for players aged eight and older, the game begins when you strap on the... “A lightweight headset containing sensors for the forehead and earlobes measures your brainwave activity. When you focus your concentration, a small foam ball will rise on a gentle stream of air. Relax your thoughts and the ball will descend. By using a combination of physical and mental coordination, you must then guide the ball through a customizable obstacle course.” ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/5 "2010-06-17T10:17:44Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Better test. Take the alleged telekinetic to a casino. Let’s see him telekinesis the dice or roulette ball for an unlikely number of consecutive wins. The trouble with that test is there are other players willing the ball to land on their number. They might have stronger abilities than his. You have to conduct a test where there’s only one person involved. ---
**Author:** ![RalfCoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@RalfCoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RalfCoder)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/6 "2010-06-17T13:24:00Z")
If you find anyone who appears to have this or any other psychic abilities, [James Randi](http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) would love to hear from them. But don’t let them get their hopes up. So far as I know, nobody has claimed one thin dime of the $1 million prize that he offers. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/7 "2010-06-17T14:16:22Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/8 "2010-06-17T14:16:54Z")
Which, someone will shortly claim, is merely proof that the challenge itself is fraudulent and not that paranormal abilities do not exist. Much as the continued absence of goblins in my house justifies the considerable expense of the quantum-activated goblin repulsor that I rent from a small Nigerian tech firm. ---
**Author:** ![Jimcando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@Jimcando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimcando)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/9 "2010-06-17T14:22:43Z")
I’m willing to bet that any self-proclaimed telekinetic would refuse to do that test simply because the glass somehow prevents their mind-moving power rays from passing through. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/10 "2010-06-17T14:34:25Z")
Don’t let them give you a hard time **JimB.** I think your test is moving. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/11 "2010-06-17T14:35:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m willing to bet that any self-proclaimed telekinetic would refuse to do that test simply because the glass somehow prevents their mind-moving power rays from passing through. No, they would refuse to take the test simply because of Randi’s well known record of blundering during tests, and lying about the results. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/12 "2010-06-17T18:21:03Z")
One potential problem is that if your test measures incredibly tiny fluctuations you need to rule out changes caused by wind currents, changes in temperature, sunlight falling on part of the apparatus, footsteps, trucks going by the building and so forth. If you were to record the value on your sensitive scale for an hour and it constantly varied by (I’m just making up numbers here) +/- 0.01 grams, and you conduct your test and the testee claims they made the scale go up by 0.009 grams, you can’t really say that’s evidence of something odd taking place - you’d want to see something really outside of the experimental noise that cannot be attributed to other external causes. Ideally you’d have someone who claims a macro ability - if they can lift a 1kg mass off the floor with their mind that’s a lot easier to verify than someone who says they can exert a teeny tiny force that is barely measurable. I would have a hard time calling a paranormal ability that operates at the level of random chance paranormal. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/13 "2010-06-17T18:40:51Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, they would refuse to take the test simply because of Randi’s well known record of blundering during tests, and lying about the results. If you want to rant about Randi, start your own thread. Thanks. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/14 "2010-06-17T21:15:37Z")
Didn’t they already conduct tests like this, with random number generators and/or small streams of water jetting up? IIRC, the results were slightly off of what would be expected if they were completely random (i.e., there was potentially some outside influence), but not enough to draw any definitive conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/15 "2010-06-17T22:13:14Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The trouble with that test is there are other players willing the ball to land on their number. They might have stronger abilities than his. You have to conduct a test where there’s only one person involved. No, I don’t. Not at this stage of the game. If he’s telekinetic, he oughta be able to control a roulette ball or a pair of dice. If he fails and then claims other, more powerful telekinetics were blocking his mojo, I’d just laugh at him. If he appears to pass, then I’ll be willing to do some further testing under more controlled conditions. After I spend the gambling loot on hookers and blow, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/16 "2010-06-17T22:36:45Z")
Your test for whether people can move things a little without physical contact is checking to see if the things they try to move a little without physical contact do in fact move a little? I mean, yeah, I imagine that’s everyone’s first proposed test. I mean, I don’t see what’s so noteworthy about the idea. What’s next, testing alleged levitation by checking to see whether the claimant really does lift off the ground? (Granted, you want to check on the nanometer scale, which I suppose _is_ distinctive. But surely everything moves on the nanometer scale all the time…) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/17 "2010-06-18T04:39:03Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No, I don’t. Not at this stage of the game. If he’s telekinetic, he oughta be able to control a roulette ball or a pair of dice. Unless there was someone else in the game using their powers to influence the ball to land on a different number. > [@](#): > > If he fails and then claims other, more powerful telekinetics were blocking his mojo, I’d just laugh at him. I’m sure you would. It’s still a badly thought out test. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/18 "2010-06-18T04:41:31Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > If you want to rant about Randi, start your own thread. > > Thanks. > > **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator Perhaps you, as moderator, would care to warn Randi’s supporters not to threadshit by citing Randi’s obvious lies. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/19 "2010-06-18T05:32:01Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Unless there was someone else in the game using their powers to influence the ball to land on a different number. > > I’m sure you would. It’s still a badly thought out test. Yeah, well, I’m not a scientist. I am a gambling man, though. And I’m willing to bet that if I bring the world’s first “known” telekinetic into a casino with me, there’s not going to be a more powerful telekinetic at the same table at the same time. If a guy claims to have extraordinary powers, I wanna see something impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508/20 "2010-06-21T16:46:49Z")
Here’s [some information](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology#Psychokinesis_on_random_number_generators) on those RNG experiments I mentioned upthread: > [@](#): > > The advent of powerful and inexpensive electronic and computer technologies has allowed the development of fully automated experiments studying possible interactions between mind and matter. In the most common experiment of this type, a true random number generator (RNG), based on electronic or radioactive noise, produces a data stream that is recorded and analyzed by computer software. A subject attempts to mentally alter the distribution of the random numbers, usually in an experimental design that is functionally equivalent to getting more “heads” than “tails” while flipping a coin. In the RNG experiment, design flexibility can be combined with rigorous controls, while collecting a large amount of data in very short period of time. This technique has been used both to test individuals for psychokinesis and to test the possible influence on RNGs of large groups of people.[21] > > Major meta-analyses of the RNG database have been published every few years since appearing in the journal Foundations of Physics in 1986.[21] PEAR founder Robert G. Jahn and his colleague Brenda Dunne say that the effect size in all cases was found to be very small, but consistent across time and experimental designs, resulting in an overall statistical significance. The most recent meta-analysis on psychokinesis was published in Psychological Bulletin, along with several critical commentaries.[48][49] It analyzed the results of 380 studies; the authors reported an overall positive effect size that was statistically significant but very small relative to the sample size and could be explained by publication bias. And a little something about [PK in the context of gambling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#Scientific_view): > [@](#): > > PK hypotheses are also tested implicitly in a number of contexts outside parapsychological experiments. Gardner considers a dice game played in casinos, where gamblers have a large incentive to affect the numbers that come up. This is in effect a large sample-size test of the same hypothesis as the J. B. Rhine dice experiments, but year after year the house takings are exactly those predicted by chance. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Perhaps you, as moderator, would care to warn Randi’s supporters not to threadshit by citing Randi’s obvious lies. If it wouldn’t be considered a hijack to ask–what “obvious lies” are those, exactly? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-test-for-telekinesis/543508.md?page=2)