# My thoughts on the United States **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 21, 2025, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614 "2025-02-21T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/21 "2025-02-21T15:31:07Z")
This is peak American exceptionalism. There is no universe in which any of this happens. Russia can’t “absorb” culturally similar and militarily weak Ukraine, let alone all of Europe, which has 20 times the GDP, 5 times the Russian population and includes a nuclear-armed France and Great Britain. And China might “absorb” Asia? All 45 million square kilometers of it, including by the way most of the land area of Russia, which will be taking Europe? Including the nuclear armed, nationalistic, 1.4 billion strong India? Or nuclear-armed Pakistan? The idea that the US is the single thing on which all European and/or democratic countries rely on is simply false. The US has the most powerful military and economy in the world by quite a large margin, and things will change dramatically as the US does, but other countries aren’t complete idiots. Russia will try to extend their influence in Eastern Europe and Central Asia, and China will continue to push for dominance in East Asia and especially the South China Sea, but the idea of them wholesale absorbing continents is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/22 "2025-02-21T15:33:46Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > There is no universe in which any of this happens. Hey, I tend to be negative. LOL Ukraine doesn’t count because we have been supplying them with the finest equipment in existence. This will no longer happen. I think Ukraine will fall before the mid-term elections. Look at what he’s done in just one month. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/23 "2025-02-21T15:37:51Z")
I agree that Ukraine is likely to fall during this administration, and that it’s being propped up by outside forces. But it’s still at least one order of magnitude smaller in terms of area, population, and military strength than the combined forces of all of Europe - and that’s not even talking about the nukes. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/24 "2025-02-21T15:44:49Z")
Good points but, remember, my dire predictions are predicated on the United States turning into an evil empire. We would withdraw our support from NATO, Japan, India, etc. That would significantly change many things. Sure, there isn’t going to be a military takeover across the board. That would be untenable, but also unnecessary. There would be no interest in the acquisition of Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, etc. because it wouldn’t be worth the effort. I could say the same thing about many countries in the Americas, but not all of them. I could see Trump crossing the border into Mexico to halt immigration. I could see him seizing the Panama Canal. I could see Russia reconstituting the USSR by reacquiring the eastern European countries. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/25 "2025-02-21T15:44:59Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > sadness, dismay, and horror From the other side of the Atlantic, we also watch with _sadness, dismay, and horror_. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/26 "2025-02-21T16:31:14Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > The idea that the US is the single thing on which all European and/or democratic countries rely on is simply false. The US has the most powerful military and economy in the world by quite a large margin, and things will change dramatically as the US does, This understates how much bigger the US military is and how much the security of Europe depends on it Sure the US has a significantly bigger economy but not by _that much_. It’s military however is order of magnitudes bigger. In another thread someone posted stats for the number of tanks available to the US vs big European countries, and it’s 10s (maybe low 100s) of tanks available to European countries vs 1000s available Io the US. You can repeat that for any aspect of the military Russia is going to make more territorial claims in Europe if Trump withdraws from NATO commitments (which he will do). Probably not in the next 12 months but definitely before Trump leaves office, as soon as Putin thinks his military has recovered from the beating it has taken in Ukraine ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/27 "2025-02-21T16:49:45Z")
I grew up in Canada and as a kid, always viewed America as just more interesting and fun. They made better TV and movies and music, and life seemed more colourful and iconic. We’d go on vacation to the States once a year or so (I had grandparents in Richmond, VA) and occasionally cross the border for some outlet mall shopping. And it was always a thrill. As a consumer, they had better shops; as a teen music fan I could always find much cooler tapes and discs on that side of the border. Then I lived in L.A. for four years (film school and beyond), and though as an adult I recognized there were more struggles that came with life, it still seemed like a place that was simultaneously Not Much Different but also Flashy And Exotic. Nowadays? People having much more conservative beliefs (however you want to litigate the definition of those) than myself wasn’t a foreign concept, but seeing a plurality of the population turn actively venal, angry all the time, claiming victimhood while demanding other people become their victims, conspiracy-mongering, and openly criminal (the political class, mostly), is absolutely shocking. As a young 'un I imagined moving there and becoming an American. And I had a couple of work visas, and would have loved, in my early twenties, to marry there and become a citizen. Nowadays? Hells to the no. I hope this will pass before I’m too old to enjoy visiting again, but I’m running out of hope on that. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/28 "2025-02-21T17:06:19Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > ETA: Whose significant other – I had not recalled – was one @ThelmaLou 😉 My way of coping is just to eat another pan of cashew fudge. * * * > [@Ulfreida](#): > > Good point that young people have never known what boomers grew up with – a stable decent government, plentiful jobs, political crises solved by judicious application of checks and balances, and a sense that it would ever be thus. I’m glad I grew up when I did and that I experienced that life. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > I read an essay this morning about the sense of stunned amazement that has fallen over the country. Would that be somewhere you could link to? * * * > [@griffin1977](#): > > The thing that makes me want to smash things and run through the streets screaming obscenities is the stupidity of it all The level of stupidity is utterly miind-boggling. I’m seeing it in people I know are well-educated and who used to be able to read and think for themselves. It’s as though the koolaid has been poured into the national water supply. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/29 "2025-02-21T18:09:41Z")
I disagree, particularly in the context of the exchange with Jasmine. Sure, the US military is orders of magnitude bigger, but the relevant comparison in a conversation about war between Europe and Russia is the European and Russian militaries, not the European and American militaries (unless things _really_ go wrong). The post I responded to was claiming that “the rest of the free world will be helpless” and “Russia will absorb Europe”, and yes, if the US withdraws from NATO the rest of NATO will be severely diminished, but hardly helpless. When compared to Russia they will go from an overwhelming, domineering force, to only a superior force. Putin will make claims in Eastern Europe, primarily to test the resolve and stability of NATO and see if he can carve out territorial victories without significant losses. But it’s not like the Russian military will be able to roll tanks into Paris without resistance, as the rest of NATO is “helpless”. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/30 "2025-02-21T18:31:24Z")
Right. Especially if we’re talking about a land war between neighbors rather than a combined arms approach from multiple fronts. Given how depleted Russia is, it wouldn’t surprise me if Poland by themselves would be able to go toe to toe with Russia, especially once we take into account a Russia that’s even further depleted during their conquest of the parts of Ukraine that they still haven’t conquered. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/31 "2025-02-21T20:29:51Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > China will absorb Asia, Russia will absorb Europe, and we will absorb the western hemisphere. Of course, we have always been at war with Eastasia. Oh, just a moment. New directive on my desk. Sorry. We have always been at war with Eurasia. Blimey, it’s a job to keep up with things here in the Ministry of Truth! Fortunately search-and-replace makes it a lot easier than it was in 1984, and it’s fairly easy to saturate social media with the New Truth. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/32 "2025-02-21T22:33:49Z")
I lived in Russia in the 1990s and this moment of time in the US reminds me of Russia then. All these Russian pensioners simply could not get their head around the collapse, they had been told that they were the good guys and now it was all ending. Now, it’s older white Americans who believed it when they were told we were the greatest nation on earth and they just didn’t see the rot around them. In work calls, the fed simply isn’t paying us the money we are due for work performed and the same people keep saying, “but they can’t do that.” They simply can’t process what they’re experiencing because they were told their whole lives that it wasn’t possible. ETA: It’s pretty clear we are going to give Putin free rein in Eastern Europe in exchange for us attacking Canada and Greenland. We probably will,let China have Taiwan for debt relief. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/33 "2025-02-21T22:47:54Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > ETA: It’s pretty clear we are going to give Putin free rein in Eastern Europe in exchange for us attacking Canada and Greenland. We probably will,let China have Taiwan for debt relief. Ah, if it only were that simple! /s ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/34 "2025-02-21T23:05:33Z")
I came of age in the late 1960s, after the Kennedy assassination, when the government itself became the enemy. But I never thought for a moment that Communism was an answer. Communists was what the right called peaceniks and hairies, who mostly wanted nothing more than stopping the war. Then, as mentioned, the right started more wars with overwhelming support from the public. All to stop the spread of Communism and prevent Russia from expanding and growing into the power it once was. Then, something happened that I still don’t understand. The way the right has suddenly been supporting Russia and decrying Ukraine has me baffled. When did the right start cheering on Russians rolling tanks into their neighbors? And why? That change didn’t come from Trump, though he fed on it. He sees Putin as a peer, one of his few in the entire world. Isms don’t matter to Trump; he’ll climb on anything useful. He wants to be King. He proclaimed it in that fake Time cover. > **[White House shares photo of Donald Trump dressed as a king](https://www.newsweek.com/white-house-donald-trump-king-time-2033574#slideshow/2591956)** > > The White House's official social media posted a fake Time Magazine cover featuring Trump with a crown, with the caption "Long live the King." A King. Of America, of all places. For almost 250 years we’ve been yelling to the world that we overthrew our king and that made us special. But now we have half the country cheering on a King? A King who’s pals with Russia? The world is uʍop ǝpı̣sdn. We’re like the plane that flipped in Toronto without explanation, and we’re passengers crawling out the exits hurt and bewildered. We’ll have to overthrow a King again. I have no doubt that we will, painful though that might be. I never thought… End that sentence any way you like. The resistance starts now. ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/35 "2025-02-21T23:36:34Z")
America held it’s last free and fair election in November 2024 - because over 1/2 of the voters chose to elect an openly fascist leader and party in all levels of government. The leader had previously established control over the judicial branch. Some American’s expressed angst over the situation through social media. A few others protested. That’s about it. The end. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/36 "2025-02-21T23:41:53Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > The end. And good riddance, to be honest. Even are free and fair elections required an asterisk. ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/37 "2025-02-21T23:53:10Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Now, it’s older white Americans who believed it when they were told we were the greatest nation on earth and they just didn’t see the rot around them. I am 67. I never believed any of that but this is the place I was born and continue to live in. I always thought those kind of “greatest nation” statements were outrageous and ill informed. And a bit crazy. As for the US collapsing - it feels sad and surreal but not surprising. I’ll do the best I can to survive. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/38 "2025-02-22T00:11:33Z")
> [@Ellecram](#): > > As for the US collapsing - it feels sad and surreal but not surprising. > I’ll do the best I can to survive. Yeah, I’m not surprised either. It seemed obvious it was coming. We are simply two different nations fighting over control of one government. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/39 "2025-02-22T00:18:58Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > America held it’s last free and fair election in November 2024 - because over 1/2 of the voters chose to elect an openly fascist leader and party in all levels of government. The leader had previously established control over the judicial branch. > > Some American’s expressed angst over the situation through social media. A few others protested. That’s about it. > > The end. Or the beginning. It’s the beginning of the Nehemiah Scudder era in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614/40 "2025-02-22T04:35:51Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > We probably will,let China have Taiwan for debt relief. We’re talking fascists, and Trump. More likely we’ll handle any debt with China by saying “make me” when they ask for money owed. Which will lead to further ruin as it becomes obvious the US can’t be relied on financially any more than it can in treaties and alliances, but Trump and his ilk won’t care, paying what you owe is for “losers”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-thoughts-on-the-united-states/1014614.md?page=3)