Don’t even get me started on the POS VW Vanagon I used to own. You wouldn’t believe how much that cost me.
See, I don’t get the “sweet looking car” comments either. Sure, the Beetle turns heads, whether you like it or not. But cars like the Bora/Jetta and Golf? They look pretty bland to me, even when compared to some US cars.
I was discussing it with my GF the last time I was in the US: how come VW seems to have such an elevated image in the US? I mean, I find the image they have in Europe overrated as is, but the US market seems to be smitten by them even more. It’s almost like VW is on the same level as, say, BMW, in terms of “status” (granted, not a concept that’s easily measured).
So, explain it to me. What is so great about a Jetta or a Passat, in terms of looks?
I should have added a " 
" after the “bland even when compared to some US cars” comment. Sorry. 
Funny that this thread was started yesterday… my 2002 GTI just had the window-drop problem yesterday. It’s at the dealership right now. I’ve also experienced the ignition coil problem, had the check engine light come on a few times for insignificant reasons, and had the airbag light come on once.
It’s much more fun to drive than a Honda, so there is a tradeoff. When I consider going back to school, however, and contemplate being poor when the warranty runs out, I do sometimes think “I should have bought Japanese.”
2001 Golf 1.8T - mmm turbo goodness. Bought it certified used- it runs like a top. I had them swap in the new coil while it was in for an oil change, the old coil was still ok, but why take chances when they are free.
The car is a rocket, very fun to drive. I loved the Passat’s but got a smoking deal on this car.
My 2002 Passat has been entirely trouble-free, and it drives and feels better than most BMW’s. I adore that car.
Drives better than most BMW’s? Wow, I could not disagree more.
What type is it? A friend of mine has a Passat VR6 Synchro that kicks ass, but that’s about the only model that’ll put a smile on my face. And it pales in comparison to the fun you can have with an off-the-rack BMW 325i, for example.
OK. I specifically got the “6” so I’d never be tempted. So this is for the fols with 1.8T’s out there:
Q: Did you put in “The Chip”? Why or why not?
Nope- the car is damn fast as it is, and I would prefer to keep my license. VW was rumored to be coming out with their own chip (fully supported by the dealer) which is interesting as the major makes start marketing to the tuner set.
Dunno what this translates into in European models, but my car is a Passat GLX with a V6 and manual transmission (because manual is just infinitely more fun to drive).
I’ve driven one of the BMW 325 models. I was certain at the time that my Passat outperforms it, and a superficial check of the BMW’s specs shows was right (2.5 liter/184 hp for the BMW, 2.8 liter 190 hp for the Passat). The 330 series has a bigger engine, but (speaking purely as a passenger this time) I wasn’t impressed with the ride or the interior. Then again, tan interiors always look crappy to me, so maybe I’m judging harshly.
Anyway, I’ll still take my Passat, thank you very much.
FWIW, VW offers fully warranteed chips for their turbocharged models here in the Netherlands, and I believe in Germany as well. both diesel turbos and petrol turbos can be chipped from the factory. It applies to the group’s other brands as well: Audis, Seats, and Skodas can also be chipped into high heaven.
Which is another strength of VW: take a base engine (either the 1.8 petrol or the by now thoroughly milked and aging 1.9 TDI), slap on a variety of chips, and offer them as different power plants. The 1.8T in the Golf is the same one as the 1.8T in the Audi TT Quattro, only in the latter it produces 225 BHP. Unless you opt for a chip, in which case it can be more.
One thing they understand very well about their European target audience: a lot of them drive company/lease cars, and a lot of them are forced to drive diesels. What better way to compete with your coworker, who has that same black Golf TDI Highline 150 BHP, by splashing on a chip, giving you that extra 20 BHP edge? Doesn’t matter that the fucking thing will explode before it reaches 200,000 km’s: the lease term will be over by then anyway!
I swear, if I hear another IT nerd (usually some 25 year old CMG or Oracle product pusher) boast about his Golf’s 320 Nm torque peak in a bar on Friday night, I’m going to shove his shiny 5" VW emblem dangling off his keychain up his ass.
But you gotta hand it to VW: their strategy works, amazingly enough.
Minty, the VW V6 is a fantastic engine. I don’t know if it beats a 325i: the Beamer’s probably a tad lighter. But it’s not all in the specs on paper: there’s something oddly satisfying about switching off all the sissy electronic aids, and gently tailsliding a BMW through corners. You’ll never get that from a FWD Passat (or my POS Peugeot, for that matter ;)).
If interior room is a main concern, then the Passat has both the 3 series and the 5 series beat. Beamers are horrible passenger cars and great driver’s cars: with VW, it seems to be the reverse.
Actually, my Peugeot DOES wag its tail from time to time: passive steering rear axle. Eat THAT, Golf lovers. 
Coldie, I don’t see anything particulary special about the current Passat/Jetta, but they are not absolutely bland, either. For blandness, you gotta call on my car, the 1999 Toyota (US) Camry. However, insofar as VW as a general nameplate is concerned in the USA, it banks on a large amount of, how shall I call it, historic goodwill: America will forever have a special place in its heart for the company that gave us the Bug and the Microbus, and which for two decades had the US economy-import market virtually to itself.
Even after the Fall of the Bug, they had the Rabbit (Golf I in Europe) just in time for the first Oil Shock: a fuel-efficient front-drive hatchback econobox that did not suck, a couple of years before the Japanese came up with ones that were actually GOOD, and that held its ground while Renault and Fiat went off the US market.
To this day they still remain the more-affordable German car, and don’t underestimate the American public’s conviction of teutonic superiority in automotive engineering matters. There is always the forlorn hope by many around here that behind VW’s definitely middle-class identity, there may yet lurk some sort of homeopathic essence of Porsche.
Of course, the NB was just a brilliant move. Put a dome-shaped body on a Golf powertrain, watch the public roar its approval. AND it’s a quite good vehicle.
I <3 my 1995 VW Golf GTI. I bought it used in 1999 with 60,000 miles on it and it now has 140,800 miles on it.
It’s had its share of problems indeed… the ignition coil problem, and when that fixed the airbag light just always stayed on.
About 2 yrs ago, the drivers side lock cylinder broke off. I had to unlock the doors from the passenger side, then I could get in the driver’s side. No biggie. Until one day when the passenger’s side cylinder broke off too. I couldn’t open my car. The locks are tied into the alarm system, if I opened the trunk first with the doors locked and the alarm engaged (which it is automatically when you lock the doors) the alarm would’ve gone off till I put the key in the door and turned it off. Which I couldn’t do. So I had to have it towed. Fixed both of them.
Had some brake line recall, took it to a VW dealer, they fixed it.
Random electronic problems: lost my entire instrument panel lights due to a fuse. “No officer, I really don’t know how fast I was going” really was true, if it was dark I couldn’t see my panel.
My door trim fell off too on the passenger side and I glued it back on. It falls off occasionally and I just glue it back on.
My rear wiper doesn’t really touch the window all the way so it only kinda swipes the window, doesn’t work very well. I mash it into the window from time to time and it works.
Even though I’ve had a ton of problems, I <3 my Golf to pieces. It fits me and my personality and it’s taken one hell of a beating over the past 4 yrs. It’s taken me cross country in the dead of winter thru the Sierras, and back in the worst heat of the summer, twice in the same year. It used to carry me to NY every weekend and back. So it breaks, I fix it.
I can’t speak for others, but I think many of us have fond memories of the original Bug. Sure it was slow, had no accelleration, took forever to get the heater going, sounded like an eggbeater and was a deathtrap in an accident. But it was cheap, incredibly reliable, a model of fuel economy for the day, and you never had to worry about adding antifreeze in the winter. They almost never got stuck in snow, and could be lifted by a couple of frat boys. Plus they were reputed to float.
Of course the current version has none of those advantages. And is no longer made by elves in the Black Forest 
.
I just got a Passat last year and have had no problems with it. Well, one problem with something related to distributors. Fixed at no charge of course, and a car wash thrown in. It was one of the few cars I found that had decent head room and was comfortable to sit in. I like to sit up straight when I drive and am a couple of inches above average height; in most of the cars I looked at, including some very high-end ones, my hair was nearly brushing the ceiling of the car, and I’d have been smacking my head against the door frame every time I got in or out.
Y’all are making me nervous. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that I won’t rue the day I traded my Toyota for a VW.
-scout
2002 Golf TDI
(also a lurker at Fred’s TDI joint, futureman!)
My 1999 Jetta does a weird thing with the transmisison–
When it’s approaching 25 mph, the rpms will go all the way up to 30, the car will lurch (sometimes just a bit, sometimes quite jarringly) and then it will finally jump into the next gear. Of course it won’t do this for the mechanics (I’ve had her in twice already). Anyone else having this problem?
The theories of the VW image in the US being linked to its past cars make lots of sense to me. The US seems to be a market where a good image will carry your brand for decades, and a bad one will shut you down for good. Peugeot stopped exporting to the US in 1995 IIRC, selling as much as 20 cars nationwide in their last year. They never recovered from the crappy reliability image they had in the 1970’s (mainly with petrol cars, obviously the fuel of choice in the US), even though they’ve consistantly been making good to great cars since the mid-80’s. I imagine Fiat and Renault suffered a similar fate: at the same time, VW had the rock solid Golf I (Rabbit), first mass production compact with a diesel (although, to nitpick, Peugeot beat them to that by almost a decade with the 204 back in Europe ;)), reliable simple mechanics, good looks - a formula for success.
Image lasts, over here as well. Polls show that people perceive VW as one of the more reliable brands, while the actual stats by e.g. the Dutch Consumer Association shows them as averagely reliable at best. On the other side of the spectrum, Alfa Romeo was perceived as unreliable, while their two top sellers (the 156 and the 147) were in the top 10 of most reliable cars in their segments over 2002.
Interesting stuff. I hope Peugeot launches another attack on the US market, so y’all can experience an affordable European car with reliability and style again.
I agree that they’re not as reliable as some others, but overpriced? Here are the cars that edmunds.com says are comparable to the Jetta. And you have to remember that even the base model Jetta has the same features as the deluxe model Civic. So you could get a Civic with a smaller engine, no a/c, no side airbags, etc., for less money, but it’s not a valid comparison:
Jetta 2.0L - $16,415
Civic EX 1.7L - $16,211
Ford Focus ZX5 2.0L - $17,489
Nissan Altima 2.5L - $17,152
Pontiac Grand Am SE 2.2L - $17,385