# My wife and I have a parenting disagreement. Who's right? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 4, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523 "2009-10-04T06:33:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/81 "2009-10-05T23:03:01Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Uncontroversial? You’re not going to take this one on too? Yeah, the environment is NOT an uncontroversial topic. On the one hand you have the “Won’t somebody please think of the trees!” Lorax types. And on the other hand, you have people responding to claims of the rape of the environment with “Well. Bitch was asking for it!” ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/82 "2009-10-05T23:20:50Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Uncontroversial? You’re not going to take this one on too? Uncontroversial as a controversy appropriate for 4th graders, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/83 "2009-10-05T23:44:27Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > There are limits on free speech. Hate speech, for example. So there are arguments to be made for porn not being protected by the first amendment. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with them. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > What limits are there on hate speech? Uh, what? I’m pretty sure that hate speech is legal. I can walk downtown right now and say whatever racist, bigoted, or otherwise hateful things I want. I can publish tracts condemning people on the basis of race, creed, or sexual orientation, and this is perfectly legal. The only way that this would become illegal is if I’m inciting someone else to violence or riot by doing so or if I’m being obnoxious enough about it to fall under “disturbing the peace” statutes. I’m with **Contrapuntal** on this one. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/84 "2009-10-06T00:06:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess she’s changed her mind as is going to write about cleaning up the environment now. (not because of me, she just changed her mind on her own). Nice and safe. Uncontroversial. certainly better if she has to read her letter before the class. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/85 "2009-10-06T20:36:19Z")
I’m with **DtC’s** wife on this one. I would be concerned that DtC’s discussion with the daughter would sound to the daughter like Dad says porn is OK. I would be seriously unhappy with someone telling my 10 year old daughter that. As an adult, I recognize that there’s a difference between what’s legal and what’s immoral, and that different people have different beliefs about morality, but I’m pretty sure that 10 year olds have trouble making that sort of distinction. 4th grade is a time with things are Right or Wrong. The first amendment is, of course, important, but I’d definitely save that discussion for another topic. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/86 "2009-10-07T01:40:55Z")
> [@chela](#): > > And all those wondering how a 10yo knows about porn? :dubious: You are joking right? 11-year old nephew was caught at school (along with a bunch of others) trading nude pics via Bluetooth on their cell phones. (Nude pics of adults, not 11 year olds btw). SIL told me this to frighten me. 🙂 My lad is currently 8… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/87 "2009-10-07T10:23:45Z")
My take is that it is not a appropriate subject for a 4th grade class. It is insightful that your 4th grader chose this, I doubt she can understand what porn really is, and is just repeating things she heard somewhere, which may indicate a bad view of females and by extension herself already exist in her. She seems to be taking out some form of anger against porn to compensate, which _may_ lead to bitterness taking root. IMHO is it a warning sign, perhaps of abuse of some sort (verbal, physical, sexual), or some sort of disliking her body. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/88 "2009-10-07T14:36:55Z")
(Totally paraphrasing here, but I think I’m true to his point): “It’s difficult to be a good parent when your kid doesn’t think like you. But I’m trying.” -John McEnroe, Tennis Magazine (this month) When you bring a child into the world, you obviously expose them to your ideas, your philosophy, your religion – as part of their everyday life. That’s where your influence should end. Browbeating your child for disagreeing with you is neither productive nor affective. At the end of the day, you’ve created a unique individual, not a clone of yourself. Your ONLY role re this assignment was to perhaps look it over for grammatical errors, and praise her on a job well done. (Oh, and be sure to save such papers for her. They are wonderful to read later, when they’ve become adults.) I might have considered writing an email to the teacher explaining why she chose the topic. But I would have NEVER debated the topic in front of her, nor would I have attempted to point out the inconsistency in her logic as it relates to the First Amendment. She’s in 4th grade, not a college student, and the nuances of the constitution can be explored later when she’s had more life experience and perspective. For now, just sit back and enjoy the simple-minded child that she is. This isn’t the first time you’re going to disagree with her (or your wife). Your overarching and consistent message should be that they both are loved and supported even when they don’t think like you. Like most hot topics, each side of the pornography issue has valid points. And there’s room for disagreement among people who respect each other. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/89 "2009-10-07T14:48:45Z")
I’d ask her to change her topic to non-porn then let her write whatever she wants under that topic. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/90 "2009-10-07T15:04:44Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > You’re both wrong, of course. (This is surprisingly common in arguements between husband and wife). > > To start with, your wife is wrong about her views on pornography, and is wrong to want to kick you out of bed for that reason. > > But you’re wrong in wanting your daughter’s assignment to reflect the “correct” political viewpoint (i.e., your viewpoint). One lesson that your daughter ought to take out of this is that there can be different positions on political issues – and sometimes Mom and Dad will take different sides. At ten years old she can understand enough to have her own political views, which often will be influenced by her parents, but may also be influenced by her friends and by what she sees n TV. (Just as they are for all of us). > > In my view, you can discuss the matter intelligently – ask if she’s though what the First Amendment means, point to arguments that porn does not necessarily degrade women, etc. – but part of the point of this assignment should be that these are her views, not the views of either of her parents. > > And both you and your wife need to learn that people you love can be wrong on particular political issues, without it having a negative impact on your relationship. Hopefully your daughter is learning this too. This is pretty much what I was going to say. Your duaghter should be encouraged to write about what she’s interested in, but, also, you’re correct to try to explain the 1st Amendment to her, and that the chasm between “I don’t like that” and “there oughtta be a law!” is great and wide. If she truly is a bright 10 year old, the concept is not too nuanced: “Yes, porn is often a terrible, horrible thing, but a law banning porn might \*also \*be a bad thing.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/91 "2009-10-07T16:06:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It is insightful that your 4th grader chose this, I doubt she can understand what porn really is, and is just repeating things she heard somewhere, which may indicate a bad view of females and by extension herself already exist in her. She seems to be taking out some form of anger against porn to compensate, which _may_ lead to bitterness taking root. > > IMHO is it a warning sign, perhaps of abuse of some sort (verbal, physical, sexual), or some sort of disliking her body. Based on what **Diogenes** said, it sounds like the 4th grader is just picking up on the anti-porn attitude expressed by her mom. Whether your comments apply to the mother is an open question. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/92 "2009-10-07T16:33:53Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Extremely strong 1st amendment supporter here, so of course I believe your wife’s position is wrong. But I’m also a lawyer/ex-debater, so there is nothing wrong with making an argument for a position you don’t believe. So I’d let my kid pick whatever topic, and then just express my opinions either in helping her anticipate counter-arguments, or just as conversation. We are in total agreement here. In fact, when my kids have had to do “persuasion” speeches/papers I have advocated they choose the side opposite their personal beliefs in order to learn more about the opposition side. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/93 "2009-10-08T02:20:22Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > 11-year old nephew was caught at school (along with a bunch of others) trading nude pics via Bluetooth on their cell phones. (Nude pics of adults, not 11 year olds btw). > > SIL told me this to frighten me. 🙂 My lad is currently 8… So why do you sound happy about this? :dubious: What a great future he has–swapping nudey pics with his buddies. You will be so proud. :rolleyes: I have an 11 year old son who dislikes intensely having to change into his gym uniform in front of other kids. Not all 11 year olds 1. have cell phones or 2. are sexually precocious. Porn is not appropriate topic for 4th grade; I find it a bit odd that she’s interested in it at all. That said, she is FULLY entitled to her own opinion about her understanding of it. All this talk re FA etc is just so much noise above her head. What she got from that is that Daddy likes porn and Mommy doesn’t and that this homework assignment and porn seems to make for tension in the home–that does not help your “side” of thing. Nor does your wife’s extremeness, if she is so extreme in her views. Is this something that really needs to be in her world at present? **Dio** , there is a chance that her opinion won’t change (I have no idea; I’m just speculating)–what then? Is she “wrong” or “misguided” or to be compared to Dworkin (who sounds like a nutter rather than a feminist)? It’s her life; she may choose to live it anti-porn and be fine with it. One thing she probably could live without is knowing about her Dad’s predilection for it. I’m 47 and prefer not to know if my father indulges. It’s just not a topic that needs discussion between children and parents (personal tastes, I mean). YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/94 "2009-10-08T03:32:32Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > So why do you sound happy about this? :dubious: What a great future he has–swapping nudey pics with his buddies. You will be so proud. :rolleyes: 😕 Sheesh… ok… I blame the lack of tone in email / forums. (My nephew got in trouble). No, the smiley was referring to my SIL’s evil sense of humour – having my brother tell me about it so that I could be worried about what my boy will be up to in a few years. On the other hand – and not wanting to get all obnoxious suggesting US = prudery – while I do not think its appropriate for my nephew to be trading nude pics at school, I don’t think it’s a huge crisis either. True, I was couple of years older than him before _Playboys_ started circulating at my (all boys) school – but this was back before mobiles and the internet, and any porn was much harder to get… and had to be swiped from older brothers or Dad’s sock drawer. > [@](#): > > I have an 11 year old son who dislikes intensely having to change into his gym uniform in front of other kids. Not all 11 year olds 1. have cell phones or 2. are sexually precocious. Ohh… I hated… I do hate changing in front of other people and am quite shy. And I get that many kids aren’t sexually precocious… (actually if they all were then none of them would be…) I was responding to the questions around “how does a 10 year old even know porn exists” by offering an example. \ ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/95 "2009-10-08T05:00:33Z")
One of my old girlfriends is a 5th grade teacher and I asked her if this would ring any bells if she got a paper that had a big open ended subject… about porn. She said, “What the hell? I would have to report that immediately.” Not to get into the whole tiff about the thing with your wife (I think you are right) but you should probably make her write the paper on something else, or at the very least, meet with the teacher and explain to her that she came up with this on her own. My ex told me that this paper might have to be read to class, and you probably don’t want to start a big huge ruckus when a bunch of kids come home and ask their mommies “Whats porn? There was a assignment in class about it.” She can’t write about ending the war or free hospitals or something? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/96 "2009-10-08T05:02:52Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > One of my old girlfriends is a 5th grade teacher and I asked her if this would ring any bells if she got a paper that had a big open ended subject… about porn. > > She said, “What the hell? I would have to report that immediately.” Wow. That’s kind of creepy. I mean if a very young child wrote about an instance of sexual molestation or drew something they probably shouldn’t know about, reporting sounds normal. But just saying that they are against porn? It’s not like they’re talking about how great porn is and how Max Hardcore is their fave director. This just seems a little big brotherish to me. > [@](#): > > She can’t write about ending the war or free hospitals or something? She is. She changed it to the environment. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/97 "2009-10-08T05:14:43Z")
I didn’t even know porn existed when I was that young! ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/98 "2009-10-08T06:27:55Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Of course it does. Your daughter’s at an age where she’s becoming conscious of her body, maybe she’s beginning to develop, and she’s wondering what it’s all about, how it’s going to turn out (will I get big boobs?), what she’ll do with a grown-up woman’s body, what’s expected of her. She’s confused. She’s going to be a woman someday and she’s thinking about what women do, what’s okay for them to do, what she might be **expected** to do. > > She might be precocious but she’s not an adult, and you can’t tell a 4th grade girl that getting naked and having someone take your picture is okay. She won’t know how to process that, how to differentiate between the little girl she is and the grownup woman she’s going to be. Seeing pictures of naked women makes her uncomfortable, and I think that’s normal, at her age. Absolutely. She’s at the age where she’s starting to have crushes on boys (or girls!) and beginning to think about the world of S-E-X and trying to fit her mind around it. Her friends are talking about when they’ll start their periods - maybe some have started already. She is eager to grow up, she’s probably starting to get some stirrings, and they feel good but also they’re SCARY and make her feel out of control - of herself, mostly, but also because romance and sex and growing up are big and huge and powerful things, and she has no choice whether she will be in that world or not. She will, time will put her there. In time, men will see her as a woman. So she sees some porn on the internet, and projects herself into it - would I like doing that? Do I want to be like that lady? Will I enjoy it? Is that what it’s like being a woman, having men look at you like that and want to do those things to you? Is that what Johnny Bates really wants from me, when he chases me and tries to kiss me? Is that who I will be? So because she knows she-as-she-is wouldn’t want that (and of course not, she’s still a child) and not having the experience to project herself forward and realize that perhaps a woman might not mind it, of course she sees porn as something that is always bad. Does that make sense? I know it’s not 100%, but this _feels_ like it’s accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/99 "2009-10-08T06:52:01Z")
I’m a little disappointed she changed topics. I wanted to hear about the parent teacher conference that ensued. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523/100 "2009-10-08T08:20:45Z")
Your daughter has been given an assignment and she is trying to carry it out. I don’t see anything wrong with challenging her beliefs by telling her about the first amendment, as long as you don’t forbid her from expressing her true opinion. I have a real problem with your wife, though. Not so much with her dislike of pornography, but in her assumption that you couldn’t possibly be honest in your disagreement, and her willingness to resort to emotional blackmail. BTW, it seems likely to me that your daughter got the idea for this topic from your wife. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-and-i-have-a-parenting-disagreement-whos-right/512523.md?page=6)