# My wife is converting to Judaism **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 16, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659 "2014-09-16T16:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/61 "2014-09-17T15:32:02Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Seconded. I’ve also _never_ heard a Jewish person use that word without it being used in utter contempt… Interesting. I’ve heard it used, jokingly, by Jews, often. Not from my grandma’s generation. They said it like they meant it, but for the record they also hated fegelehs and schvartzas (gay people and black people) with equal fervor so there ya go. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/62 "2014-09-17T15:36:49Z")
**Mrjew** , what country do you live in now? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/63 "2014-09-17T15:45:21Z")
I’m a non-religious, agnostic, Reform-raised Jew, and my philosophy on the matter of “who is Jewish” is extremely inclusive. If your mommy was a gentile and your daddy was a Jew, but you were raised Jewish and consider yourself a Jew, I’ll consider you a Jew. If you convert, I don’t care what kind of conversion process you go through or whether you keep kosher. If you’re sincere and the process was administered and approved by actual rabbis, I say “Welcome to the Tribe.” But it doesn’t sound like Mrjew’s wife a real and sincere desire to become a Jew. He says she does, but it sure sounds like an after-the-fact justification. She could “convert,” but to me, she wouldn’t really be a Jew. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > This is what I’m a little confused about. If you were a member of a community, you would have rabbinical resources at hand, and probably even know some converts to Orthodoxy. I’m a little confused about this too, and it’s part of the reason why I question the sincerity of the OP and his wife. He’s disconnected enough from whatever Jewish community he intends to join that they don’t even know that he’s married. If his wife has been “looking into it for years,” she would know the at least some of the basics about conversion. If they were part of any congregation, even a Reform congregation, they would know a rabbi that could help them get started in the right direction. It doesn’t add up. > [@RickG](#): > > \ > On another note, some posters have used the Yiddish word _shikseh_. Please don’t. It derives from a Hebrew word meaning “abomination” or “object of loathing”. I realize that, in this context, it is probably how the woman in question is being described by her in-laws, but it’s extremely rude by contemporary standards. > \ Who’s “contemporary” standards? In my world, it’s a mild insult, and one that is frequently used in a humorous context. I personally avoid using those words amongst people I don’t know pretty well because I know other people find them more offensive, but they are not universally considered “extremely rude.” > [@Spiderman](#): > > Why do you see so many older people at church/synagogue? Is it because now that their kids are raised & they’re retired from working they have the time for it; or is it because they’re like high school/college kids in the last week of the semester - cramming for finals? 😉 Jews don’t have “finals,” bubbeleh. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/64 "2014-09-17T17:04:20Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Seconded. I’ve also _never_ heard a Jewish person use that word without it being used in utter contempt. And I’ve only heard it used a few times even in that context. At least in my experience, 99% plus of the times I’ve heard “shikseh” and “goy” being used are by gentiles trying to say what they think Jewish people would, but don’t actually, say. I’ve never heard it used as anything else but joking around. For example, my husband who is not Jewish is referred to as my Goy-Boy-Toy. Maybe the people I know who would use those terms with contempt are savvy enough not to use them around me… ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/65 "2014-09-17T18:11:39Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I’ve never heard it used as anything else but joking around. Me neither. It was quite a popular meme after the Seinfeld episode on Shiksah-peal ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/66 "2014-09-17T18:21:37Z")
[QUOTE=RickG \ On another note, some posters have used the Yiddish word _shikseh_. Please don’t. It derives from a Hebrew word meaning “abomination” or “object of loathing”. I realize that, in this context, it is probably how the woman in question is being described by her in-laws, but it’s extremely rude by contemporary standards. \[/QUOTE] Since we are in IMHO, I think this is a worthy topic for a new thread/discussion. MRJEW when something appears off about a persons behaviour, there is a concept in Judaism about giving someone the benefit of the doubt as I think many of us here have done by taking your thread seriously, many others logically have questioned you on this thread, name and join date mean less to me than the tone of some of the questions, things one just would or ought to know, given the information you have shared here. What can you say to those that question the genuineness of this thread, asked with respect. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/67 "2014-09-17T19:11:11Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I’ve never heard it used as anything else but joking around. For example, my husband who is not Jewish is referred to as my Goy-Boy-Toy. > > Maybe the people I know who would use those terms with contempt are savvy enough not to use them around me… My family has generally used it in a purely descriptive way to refer to a non-Jewish woman. All family on both sides, including those who were raised Orthodox. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/68 "2014-09-17T19:15:03Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > So I wouldn’t have a chance of proving I am Jewish to them? I am the oldest living member of my ancestral family and, as far as I know, none of my ancestors practiced orthodox Judaism. My parents joined a reform synagogue late in life, but that was to be members of a community rather from any religious belief. It is true that my father’s mother tongue was Yiddish, since his parents came over as adults and never spoke more than broken English. But my mother didn’t even have that as her parents immigrated as a 1 year old and a 13 year old. > > On the other hand, the Lubavitchers come around every year with tiny gifts and we have a small pischke that we sometimes put some coins in and give them. I think most of the time, reasonable people will consider circumstantial evidence (speaking Yiddish, names, synagogue membership, whether married people had a ketubah. Place of origin,etc.) But I’ve also read about circumstances where people had to run around before an Israeli wedding to document one party’s Jewishness. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/69 "2014-09-17T19:30:49Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > My family has generally used it in a purely descriptive way to refer to a non-Jewish woman. All family on both sides, including those who were raised Orthodox. I never heard shiksa used with contempt until I was older. Shamas I found out early on was a nasty thing to call someone based on the color of their skin. In New York where you can’t swing a cat without hitting a mixed religious couple shiksa and goy are commonly used humorously with no contempt attached. But it’s going to depend on who you were exposed to. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/70 "2014-09-17T20:19:33Z")
The Reform Rabbi here said that goy means “foreigner”. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/71 "2014-09-17T20:44:46Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > I think most of the time, reasonable people will consider circumstantial evidence (speaking Yiddish, names, synagogue membership, whether married people had a ketubah. Place of origin,etc.) But I’ve also read about circumstances where people had to run around before an Israeli wedding to document one party’s Jewishness. Our rabbi, who has been a leader in the Conservative Movement (I think he was once Pres of the whatever it is), when his daughter was getting married in Israel, had to find “proof” that his wife was Jewish. He basically had to find an ultra-Orthodox rabbi from her home town to write a letter attesting etc etc. I think those folks in Israel who view themselves as Guardians of the Faith are not “reasonable” people. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/72 "2014-09-17T21:05:20Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Our rabbi, who has been a leader in the Conservative Movement (I think he was once Pres of the whatever it is), when his daughter was getting married in Israel, had to find “proof” that his wife was Jewish. He basically had to find an ultra-Orthodox rabbi from her home town to write a letter attesting etc etc. I think those folks in Israel who view themselves as Guardians of the Faith are not “reasonable” people. Why do you think it is unreasonable for an Orthodox rabbi, before marrying a couple, to ascertain that they are both Jews? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/73 "2014-09-17T21:36:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Why do you think it is unreasonable for an Orthodox rabbi, before marrying a couple, to ascertain that they are both Jews? Because no known registry exists or has ever existed to determine who is Jewish. The Nazis tried real, real hard and even they missed quite a few legit jews. Who elected ultra-orthodox rabbis in Israel to say who’s in the club? Screw those guys. it oesn’t mean you can’t ask if the person is Jewish; but since no one’s allowed to bear false witness a personal affirmation or the affirmation of anyone familiar with the person’s religious practice should be sufficient. If you start from the premise of presumed false witness your so-called Jew Identification System is corrupt and worthless anyway. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/74 "2014-09-17T21:37:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Why do you think it is unreasonable for an Orthodox rabbi, before marrying a couple, to ascertain that they are both Jews? They were annoyed that they were Conservative. An Orthodox Rabbi’s wife didn’t want Mrs. Plant (v.2.0) to use their mikvah when she discovered that I converted Conservative. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/75 "2014-09-17T22:44:23Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Because no known registry exists or has ever existed to determine who is Jewish. Of course not. Does that mean that say-so is sufficient? > [@](#): > > it oesn’t mean you can’t ask if the person is Jewish; but since no one’s allowed to bear false witness a personal affirmation or the affirmation of anyone familiar with the person’s religious practice should be sufficient. I don’t think so. I am not sure what you mean by “no one’s allowed to bear false witness” - many do. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/76 "2014-09-17T22:45:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They were annoyed that they were Conservative. An Orthodox Rabbi’s wife didn’t want Mrs. Plant (v.2.0) to use their mikvah when she discovered that I converted Conservative. 🙂 The Orthodox do not recognize Conservative conversions as valid. Of course she didn’t want her to use the mikvah - she did not consider her Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/77 "2014-09-17T22:46:50Z")
What would be the harm in allowing people to self-identify as Jewish? Or Catholic. Or Methodist. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/78 "2014-09-17T22:48:49Z")
Hello Again: > [@](#): > > Who elected ultra-orthodox rabbis in Israel to say who’s in the club? David Ben-Gurion. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/79 "2014-09-17T22:52:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > What would be the harm in allowing people to self-identify as Jewish? Or Catholic. Or Methodist. Depends for what purposes. An Orthodox rabbi will not marry non-Jews. So before the wedding he has to ascertain that the two parties are Jewish. Self-identification is not sufficient. You might as well ask what would be the harm in allowing companies to identify products as kosher. No harm - except no Jews who keep kashrut will use those products. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659/80 "2014-09-17T22:58:26Z")
I think maybe it was Ariel Sharon commenting on the controversy involving Reform and Conservative Jews immigrating to Israel said something like “The synagogue I do not go to is an Orthodox one”. And of course the old joke about a Jew stuck on a desert island. He built three huts there. When he was rescued they asked what the three huts were for. The first he said was his home. The second he said was his synagogue. “What is the third one for?” asked his rescuers. He replied “That’s the synagogue I wouldn’t set foot in if you paid me!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-converting-to-judaism/698659.md?page=5)