# My wife is in a frenzy of throwing stuff (chametz) out in the kitchen for Passover **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 14, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078 "2014-04-14T12:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/41 "2015-04-03T22:08:56Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Is this what they mean by ethnic cleansing? You win the thread! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/42 "2015-04-03T22:35:49Z")
The only bakery in a city where I lived that made bagels would close during Passover. Until they expanded and opened a second store. The second store also had a deli. Eventually, instead of closing, they’d just sell the place to an employee for the week of Passover. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/43 "2015-04-03T22:42:09Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > similarly, Catholics have “Creasters.” I’ve heard “CAPE Catholics” – Christmas, Ashes, Palms and Easter. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/44 "2015-04-03T22:52:18Z")
I love the fact that a holiday, in which you do a deep cleaning of your house (looking for crumbs, getting rid of old food, cleaning carpets and cabinets) coincides with spring and spring cleaning. Coincidence? I think not! ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/45 "2015-04-03T22:57:02Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Sure. He had a bad thing or two to say about the “money changers” and their exorbitant ATM fees, so I suspect he was a thrifty sort. > > Besides didn’t he coin the phrase “a dracma saved is a dracma earned”? And those who followed him constantly remind us that “Jesus saves.” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/46 "2015-04-03T23:09:29Z")
At First National Bank. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/47 "2018-03-30T00:05:25Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I love the fact that a holiday, in which you do a deep cleaning of your house (looking for crumbs, getting rid of old food, cleaning carpets and cabinets) coincides with spring and spring cleaning. Coincidence? I think not! Well, just checking in, and our _modus vivendi_ is vivendi-ing along. As **ITD** probably knows–or does–by now (24-hrs-ish to P-day) the chametz is supposedly all gone, except for the little bits you missed and prayed “gimme a break I did my best,” and tomorrow you can hide pieces of bread wrapped in a napkin, and take: 1) candle 2) feather 3) a child and “hunt” for it. Us, same as before: finding the stuff, wrapping it up and away. Perhaps unsurprisingly my freezer contains more or less the same as it did three years ago. And again I am most jealous of the caul fat, which is a pain to get in under 50-lb crates and is a bitch to clean. Also, FTR, the Bloom nuclear family has fissioned (long story), so it’s just us two. It’s sad to ask the four questions yourself. But: we always fight the slavery in ourselves, every day. Happy Passover and a blessed Holy Week to all. ETA: The word has come down from Official Conservate Jewry PTB: Rice is Kosher for the Ashkenazim. Come on over Salim, have a nosh! Mrs. Bloom still wants it wrapped away, even though she hangs out at a Conservative shul on Friday nights. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/48 "2018-03-30T00:39:32Z")
I do to have a wooden spoon or feather big enough to catch all the chametz we accumulate! ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/49 "2018-03-30T00:49:04Z")
Decades ago I knew a Brit, who apparently just learned about this wonder tool called a Handi-Vac (I think that’s what they’re called), leap in a panic with “Oh Shit! My Car!” dash out, rummage around, and come back wishing he wasn’t a Jew so he could make an idol to the Handi-Vac and pray to it for its marvelous power. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/50 "2018-03-30T14:36:56Z")
OK, I have to admit I’m having fun reading this thread, even though I know next to nothing about Jewish customs. From what I gather, you are prohibited from eating certain foods or engaging in certain activities during a period of time, but you find creative ways of getting around those restrictions by exploiting loopholes. You’re adhering to the letter of the law, but not necessarily the spirit. Is this a reasonably correct assumption? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/51 "2018-03-30T14:48:20Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > You’re adhering to the letter of the law, but not necessarily the spirit. Which, when it comes to jewish things, seems to _be_ the spirit of the law, more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/52 "2018-03-30T14:50:57Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > OK, I have to admit I’m having fun reading this thread, even though I know next to nothing about Jewish customs. > > From what I gather, you are prohibited from eating certain foods or engaging in certain activities during a period of time, but you find creative ways of getting around those restrictions by exploiting loopholes. You’re adhering to the letter of the law, but not necessarily the spirit. Is this a reasonably correct assumption? Judaism is an intensely legalistic religion. We don’t consider those acts as somehow getting around something, or exploiting a loophole. The implication is somehow we’re cheating or getting away with something. The letter of the law is the law. The spirit of the law is the letter of law. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/53 "2018-03-30T15:34:17Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > OK, I have to admit I’m having fun reading this thread, even though I know next to nothing about Jewish customs. > > From what I gather, you are prohibited from eating certain foods or engaging in certain activities during a period of time, but you find creative ways of getting around those restrictions by exploiting loopholes. You’re adhering to the letter of the law, but not necessarily the spirit. Is this a reasonably correct assumption? Q: How many Jews does it take to turn on a light? A: [None](https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-should-we-laugh-at-the-jewish-light-switch-1.5408457)! ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/54 "2018-03-30T16:17:44Z")
It just seems like there’s so many regulations to keep track of, it’s difficult to adhere to all of them without inadvertently trampling a few. According to this [article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chametz), if grain soaks in water longer than 18 minutes, it is considered to be fermenting because that’s when the natural yeast content triggers the leavening process. Yet the same yeast can be used to ferment wine because it is not being used in leavening. I don’t know the context of why the fermenting process for grain is considered grounds for spiritual excision, but not for alcohol. This seems like skating an extremely fine line, which is why I said “exploiting loopholes” before. Plus, I remember from my home brewing days that yeast can trigger the fermenting process earlier or later than usual, depending on a number of conditions, including climate. It might be difficult for Jews not living in Mediterranean climates to adhere to the laws and still have legal edible food during Passover. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/55 "2018-03-30T17:17:03Z")
Im not particularly observant, but I can follow the rules pretty easily. Growing up we were observant, so think when you grow up with it, it’s not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/56 "2018-03-30T20:37:26Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > …where I have to start cooking, and from the freezer she’s throwing out pork products (long story) that have taken me all year to make/purchase. She’s in a frenzy, cursing and questioning as she plumbs the depths of anonymously wrapped stuff. God help me when she starts to vacuum and straightening up. I realize this thread is a zombie, but I am still curious as to where she gets kosher pork and lobster. Granted, very recently there is a claim of [pork that is not only kosher but, apparently, paerve](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=851806) but I will also note that will be fodder for MUCH debate amongst Jews of all sorts (which is OK, Jews are sort of known for that and largely seem to enjoy it, or at least treat debating/arguing as a sport). Is she aware that throwing out the pork and seafood along with the chametz does not in fact make her kitchen instantly kosher? Perhaps we should not tell her about the multiple sets of plates and cutlery… > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > Isn’t there some workaround where you can give the chametz to someone else but it stays in your house and then they give it back after Passover? Yes. You sell it to a goy. I should note that even if only a small amount of money changes hands it is still considered a real sale. > [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So, we just moved to a new neighborhood. Our next-door neighbors stopped by last week ago to introduce themselves and brought us some brownies. So when we made banana bread a couple of days later, we thought it would be nice to give them some. We didn’t catch them at home that day or the next, but we finally successfully delivered it last night. Very nice folks, kids around our kid’s age. As it happens, they’re Jewish, and did in fact mention that today is the start of Passover. It occurred to me later that might be a problem, but I was somewhat familiar with kosher dietary laws and figured that a food containing no meat or dairy wouldn’t be a problem. And I knew about the Passover restriction on leavened bread, but banana bread has no yeast, so we’re fine, right? But now I see that it’s got nothing to do with yeast, and that we basically gave them the worst food gift we could, at the worst possible time. Well…except that they probably appreciated the fact you gave them a gift at all, and if they could eat it prior to sundown they could still enjoy it themselves. And no, it’s not the “worst food gift”, there are worst food gifts to give people. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Plus she bought and proudly states she will use–and I bet her she won’t–a crappy God knows what mayo, because it was there (with matzoh, macaroons, etc) and was only a $1 and it was Kosher for Passover and that’s why. Given that mayo is essentially an emulsion of egg and oil the main difference between a kosher and a non-kosher mayo is that the kosher one probably has fewer additives. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Happy and Sweet Passover! Same! > [@friedo](#): > > Yes indeed. Throwing out perfectly good food because your sky fairy commands it is like, [totes adorbs](http://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/impact-of-hunger/hunger-and-poverty/hunger-and-poverty-fact-sheet.html), yo. There is actually no requirement that the food be _thrown away_ - it could be donated, given to someone, sold, and so forth. > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > From what I gather, you are prohibited from eating certain foods or engaging in certain activities during a period of time, but you find creative ways of getting around those restrictions by exploiting loopholes. You’re adhering to the letter of the law, but not necessarily the spirit. Is this a reasonably correct assumption? Um… yes and no. The letter of the law is the letter of the law, there isn’t an assumption there’s a “spirit” of the law which is unwritten. What constitutes keeping to the law in these modern times is subject to some debate (as is, apparently, almost everything else when it comes to Judaism). It has been a very long-standing custom that Jews can sell chametz to goyim prior to Passover and, if it has not been consumed and the goyim are willing, purchase it back afterwards. However, the sale is in fact real - the goyim are not required to sell the chametz back and any attempt to require them to do so would be a no-no… but so long as the goyim are free to do whatever they want with the chametz but choose to sell it back to Jews it’s OK. This sort of thing may be why some nice Jewish boys (and girls) go into the secular law professions and do quite well. > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > It just seems like there’s so many regulations to keep track of, it’s difficult to adhere to all of them without inadvertently trampling a few. The idea is that your life is an integrated system. Trying to convert a non-kosher kitchen into a kosher one for Passover is a pain in the butt. Taking a kosher kitchen and getting it ready for Passover is basically just a thorough cleaning and not nearly as difficult. Likewise, if you live in a community where everyone is following the rules (or doing their best to do so) it’s a lot easier than if you’re not in such a community. > [@](#): > > According to this [article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chametz), if grain soaks in water longer than 18 minutes, it is considered to be fermenting because that’s when the natural yeast content triggers the leavening process. Yet the same yeast can be used to ferment wine because it is not being used in leavening. I don’t know the context of why the fermenting process for grain is considered grounds for spiritual excision, but not for alcohol. This seems like skating an extremely fine line, which is why I said “exploiting loopholes” before. First, remember that Passover commemorates the Jews fleeing Egypt as described in Exodus. Some of this involves a ceremonial recreation/re-enacting of that episode. The Jews were in such a hurry to leave Egypt that they couldn’t wait for their bread to rise so they ate unleaved bread… not because in the original case there was no yeast in it, but because they were in such a damn hurry. The requirement for unleavened bread _now_ is due to the “re-creation” aspect of the holiday. And the inconvenience such a rule imposes is not nearly as inconvenient as having to flee the place you’ve lived all your life on short notice with no intention of ever returning. Second, chametz is ONLY the product of specific grains + yeast, not yeast and something else. Therefore, yeast + fruit is not forbidden therefore wine is OK. Alcohol made from fermented _grain_, however, is not, it is chametz. Wine that is kosher for passover is wine that is guaranteed to not contain any form of grain and therefore chametz free. It’s not that yeast OR grain is forbidden, it’s the yeast AND grain. Very important to keep those two terms (“and”, “or”) straight. Yeast without grain is not chametz. Grain without yeast is not chametz. > [@](#): > > Plus, I remember from my home brewing days that yeast can trigger the fermenting process earlier or later than usual, depending on a number of conditions, including climate. It might be difficult for Jews not living in Mediterranean climates to adhere to the laws and still have legal edible food during Passover. Ideally, one does not keep 18 minutes between wetting the grain product and cooking it, one keeps the time as short as possible. 18 minutes at some point was determined to be a good working figure and unlikely for natural fermentation to occur sooner than that in most likely conditions. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/57 "2018-03-30T21:44:12Z")
One can very happily choose to follow certain holiday traditions (like making your house kosher for Pesach) without following all kosher customs. That Leo’s wife doesn’t follow kashrut and yet still want to follow Passover rituals is completely normal and typical for many Jews. I’m sure she knows quite well that her kitchen isn’t instantly kosher just because she removed that hametz, and probably feels very good about upholding this tradition. Many synagogues also symbolically “buy the hametz”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/58 "2018-03-30T22:21:11Z")
Well, sure, people are free to observe or not observe any customs. Heck, I know quite a few Jews who don’t bother keeping kosher at all. I might even be one of them. (My oldest surviving sibling has informed me that mom _might_ have actually converted all the way, which would actually make me Jewish instead of a gentile with Jewish relatives. Bit too late to ask mom directly. But it’s not something I stress about.) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/59 "2018-03-30T22:27:50Z")
The vast majority of Jews don’t keep kosher, even those of us who firmly identify both culturally and religiously Jewish. Many do observe a subset of rituals and laws, related to holidays or every day life. It’s an exceptionally Jewish thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078/60 "2018-03-31T00:46:15Z")
In the neighborhood I grew up in, all the houses were built with storage rooms under the garage. These rooms were not connected by a doorway to the rest of the house - you had to go outside to get into them. I was given to understand that this had to do with food storage and especially Passover. Apparently the Jewish families kept a freezer in there to hold all the food that couldn’t be “in” the house at that time. Putting the freezer in the garage didn’t count because there was a doorway with direct access. Do I have this right? The memory feels muddled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-is-in-a-frenzy-of-throwing-stuff-chametz-out-in-the-kitchen-for-passover/686078.md?page=4)