# Mysteries that defy conventional reality... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 8, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903 "2003-05-08T14:46:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/21 "2003-05-08T19:40:10Z")
_xtisme: personally I think its geology_ Agreed; it looks very much like columnar jointing side-on. I’m more impressed by the [Chinese earth pyramids](http://www.earthquest.co.uk/china/china.html), which may be the kind of thing _SwimmingwithChickens_ is looking for. The site mentions another good one: the Antikythera Mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/22 "2003-05-08T19:40:16Z")
I once spent an inordinate amount of time researching the Knights Templar. [Here’s](http://www.templarhistory.com/history.html) a good start. The story is interwoven with myth and legend, especially the era after the execution of Jacques de Molay, but it is also an integral part of documented history. The “journey” through all the parts, spanning centuries, is worth it. It touches on the Crusades, the intrigue betwen the Church(es) (mutiple Popes) and the State, the quest for the Arc of the Covenant and it’s possible discovery, participation in the Scottish battles (William Wallace) with England. The possible connection with the Freemasons. etc. etc. It goes on and on, mystery after mystery. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/23 "2003-05-08T19:43:03Z")
The Japanese underwater pyramids are really totally natural geological formations. There is no chance whatso ever that they were built for dark rites by a pre-human species. Now, nothing to see here folks, move along, move along… ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/24 "2003-05-08T19:45:10Z")
You could also read Skeptical Inquirer or Skeptic magazines which regularly debunk this sort of hooey. I prefer to frequent the natural history, physical science, and astronomy sections of my library for things that are incredibly strange as well as true. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/25 "2003-05-08T19:45:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SwimmingwithChickens \* > \*\*Ball lightning? I just had a rather obscene image pop into my head… What is ball lightning? > \*\* Well, it’s not what you’re thinking of (ouch!). Ball ligtning is basically lightning (or something similar) that manifests in a floating ball rather than the usual bolt-type arc. From what I can recall, it tends to hover a few feet above ground level and may travel a short distance before either fading out or disappearing with a bang, depending on witness accounts. My father told me he witnessed it once while he was serving in the Air Force - he said it moved across the ground and disappeared a few yards in front of him. He said it seemed to be spinning like a saw blade as it moved. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/26 "2003-05-08T20:40:33Z")
[http://www.forteantimes.com](http://www.forteantimes.com) or for the not so real stuff… [http://www.crank.net](http://www.crank.net) ---
**Author:** ![SwimmingwithChickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@SwimmingwithChickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwimmingwithChickens)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/27 "2003-05-08T21:01:16Z")
How credible is the forteantimes? ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/28 "2003-05-08T21:18:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SwimmingwithChickens \* > \*\*How credible is the forteantimes? \*\* It has stories and articles from a wide range of people. Some credible, some not so credible. Editorially it seems fairly even-handed. The website has daily weird news from around the world. it’s up to you decide how credible it is… I’m sceptical about paranormal stuff, but still find it a good read… ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/29 "2003-05-08T21:22:48Z")
Try the books of Rupert [Sheldrake](http://www.sheldrake.org/). He has done some truly scientific research on the following topics: -how pigeons can find their way home, even if the home is moved; -phantom limbs (he connechts that concept to the concept of “soul” -the “you can feel it when someone stares at you” phenomenon. -pets who know in advance their boss comes home. Sheldrake argues a convincing case that all the obvious explanations of these phenomena have been disproved, or can be disproved, given the right kind of experiment (that is why I called him truly scientific). He also has very interesting thoughts about what it means if the above phenomena are real. Sheldrake has been discussed even on the boards, but in a rather lukewarm way. I feel people just do not know where to put him. He is clearly not a charlatan, but he deals with pehenomena that are so not-of-this-word! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/30 "2003-05-08T21:47:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\*You could also read Skeptical Inquirer or Skeptic magazines which regularly debunk this sort of hooey. > > \*\* My dear Dinsdale- “ball lightning” and the “Lost Colony” arec ertainly not “hooey”, and are very “mysterious”. I will concede there is much “hooey” connected with the Great Pyramid, but even mainstream Egyptologists have significant unanswered questions. ---
**Author:** ![Kaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/fbc32d/32.png) [@Kaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaf)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/31 "2003-05-08T21:58:11Z")
[Lifters](http://www.americanantigravity.com/technology.html) are an interesting phenomenon that I’ve seen written about on the internet. As far as I can tell, without building one myself, nobody really knows exactly why or how they work, but they seem too. This site I linked to doesn’t seem terribly scientific, but if you google lifter and anti-gravity, a fair number of hits turn up. Anyone? Are these for real? Whats the Dope on this? ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/32 "2003-05-08T22:20:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kaf \* > \*\*Anyone? Are these for real? Whats the Dope on this? \*\* They appear to be reaction engines, using the ion wind effect. One thing most lifter researchers don’t like to admit is that these create a significant downward breeze when operating - the assymetrical electrode accelerates nearby air downward, and the reaction effect pushes the electode upwards. Lifter researchers claim that there’s an additional force component unrelated to the reaction effect, but AFAIK free flight of a lifter in a vacume environment has never been demonstrated. Ion-wind fliers were first develope over 50 years ago, it’s only recently that a certain fringe rediscovered them with the belief that they represent some kind of mysterious antigravity effect. ---
**Author:** ![NameAlreadyTaken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/97f17d/32.png) [@NameAlreadyTaken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NameAlreadyTaken)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/33 "2003-05-08T22:50:30Z")
I’ve always liked the [natural nuclear reactor](http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/oklo.htm). Sure it’s close to 2 billion years dead, but it illustrates some neat aspects of nuclear physics and reactor design. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/34 "2003-05-08T22:56:07Z")
I don’t think anyone has ever properly explained the unique retrograde rotation of the planet Venus. It also happens to [present the same face toward Earth](http://www.geocities.com/ptolemy1022/cosmos/resonance.html) when the two planets are at their closest approach. It seems to be more than a coincidence, but it is still unexplained as far as I know. I keep hoping the **Bad Astronomer** will cut through the guff on that one, but lately he’s been busy fighting off a horde of other lunatics–and yes I mean, “lunatics.” ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/35 "2003-05-11T01:19:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\*I don’t think anyone has ever properly explained the unique retrograde rotation of the planet Venus. It also happens to [present the same face toward Earth](http://www.geocities.com/ptolemy1022/cosmos/resonance.html) when the two planets are at their closest approach. It seems to be more than a coincidence, but it is still unexplained as far as I know. \*\* **Immanuel Velikovsky** wrote some interesting things about Venus in his book “Planets in Collision”. A good chunk of what he wrote has since been debunked… but some of the other stuff is pretty interesting. [http://www.unmuseum.org/velikov.htm](http://www.unmuseum.org/velikov.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Trigonal\_Planar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/0ea827/32.png) [@Trigonal\_Planar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trigonal_Planar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/36 "2003-05-11T02:54:33Z")
I’ve never understood the lifter “mystery” either. Its simply ionic breeze resulting from the high-voltage DC source applied at the various points of the device. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/37 "2003-05-11T03:18:10Z")
If you’re willing to read a series of books, there’s the ones on scientific anomalies by William Corliss. Some people describe him as the successor to Charles Fort, but he’s actually much more objective about his description of anomalous phenomena than Fort is. Just Google on “William Corliss” and you’ll get some descriptions of his books. ---
**Author:** ![Erroneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71c47a/32.png) [@Erroneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erroneous)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/38 "2003-05-11T03:54:35Z")
A big ‘this is exactly what you’re looking for’ to the William Corliss suggestion. > [@](#): > > The Sourcebooks, Handbooks and Catalogs are compiled from 40,000 articles from the scientific literature, the results of a 25-year search through more than 12,000 volumes of scientific journals, including the complete files of Nature, Science, Icarus, Weather, etc. The Sourcebook Project is compiling an objective, unsensationalized catalog of anomalous phenomena. [http://www.science-frontiers.com/](http://www.science-frontiers.com/) That’s his homepage - you can read all his brief bi-monthly newsletters from Sept. 1977 to Jan. 2000 online [here](http://www.science-frontiers.com/sfonline.htm). These are mostly taken from reports of anomalous phenomena in journal articles, although some do have slightly more wack sources. Some examples: [ICY MINICOMETS CAUGHT BY A SATELLITE CAMERA?](http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf112/sf112p11.htm) [ANCIENT CAMP FOUND 40 FEET BELOW COLORADO SURFACE](http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf014/sf014p02.htm) [UNUSUAL DOUBLE SUN](http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf044/sf044p14.htm) [NEPTUNE’S PARTIAL RINGS](http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf044/sf044p03.htm) [LARGE ROTATING ICE DISCS ON ICE-COVERED RIVERS](http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf112/sf112p09.htm) A list of all the books corliss has compiled is [here](http://www.science-frontiers.com/sourcebk.htm). I very strongly recommend them. ---
**Author:** ![Gairloch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d2c977/32.png) [@Gairloch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gairloch)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/39 "2003-05-11T04:55:42Z")
Or you could just abandon the search for proof positive that the currently unexplainable represents some sort of “Gotcha,” and join the rest of the intelligent folks who are busy trying to expand knowledge by explaining those things. Damn. Sorry. That sounded almost rational. Gairloch ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903/40 "2003-05-11T07:05:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kaf \* > \*\*[Lifters](http://www.americanantigravity.com/technology.html) are an interesting phenomenon that I’ve seen written about on the internet. > > Anyone? Are these for real? Whats the Dope on this? \*\* [This article](http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/105238663122290.xml) explains that “gravity doesn’t have anything to do with how the lifter operates other than holding it down”, and that a “plasma wind” (which is apparently synonymous with “ion wind”) is responsible for the apparent defiance of a fundamental law of physics. I discovered the story because it was linked to [The Anomalist](http://www.anomalist.com/), a site I have bookmarked. Although it features a lot of UFO and conspiracy material, it should also provide **SwimmingwithChickens** with plenty of leads to what that poster defines as “real mysteries” worthy of investigation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mysteries-that-defy-conventional-reality/173903.md?page=3)