# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2002 "2011-08-23T02:09:51Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > No, gnarly is the only one who got a guilty result. Given all these cop/oracle whatevers, at LEAST two of them are supposed to be giving off mostly guilty results. > > Since we only got 1/5 guilty results, gnarlycharlie is the most cleared out of all of them. > > Go for the innocent results, one of them has to be a lie. You are just assuming that there are 5 varying types of cops. Don’t do this. We have no reason to believe otherwise that there are more than just normal seers in this game. Additionally, in the original mystery mash there were only true seers and mystic seers. Both types of seers gave correct results, except mystic seer results simply went to a different recipient. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2003 "2011-08-23T02:12:42Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > You are just assuming that there are 5 varying types of cops. Don’t do this. We have no reason to believe otherwise that there are more than just normal seers in this game. Additionally, in the original mystery mash there were only true seers and mystic seers. Both types of seers gave correct results, except mystic seer results simply went to a different recipient. By your own post, though, you say gnarly is most likely Town. This implies that there is something out there either receiving or giving out wrong reads (if true). ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2004 "2011-08-23T02:13:26Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > You are just assuming that there are 5 varying types of cops. Don’t do this. We have no reason to believe otherwise that there are more than just normal seers in this game. Additionally, in the original mystery mash there were only true seers and mystic seers. Both types of seers gave correct results, except mystic seer results simply went to a different recipient. I see 5 “cop” like results. I see 4 of them are innocent and one is guilty. I do not assume all 5 cops are true cops, because that’s horse crap. I therefore assume one of the cops is giving bad results. Therefore, gnarlycharlie is the worst lynch of the 5. Then I have others backing up his story. I’ll assume if I must, and I must, it’s freaking mafia. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2005 "2011-08-23T02:14:17Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I wanted to wait for gnarlycharlie to wake up, and I have to be away for a couple of hours, but I think I need to explain now. > > gnarlycharlie and I are masons. He targeted me last night. We are both villagers, per our role reveal from the mod to both of us. I know that someone targeted gnarly last night and it was not an investigative role. I’m sure gnarly will be along in a few hours to confirm this, and I will be back soon. > [@TexCat](#): > > Charlie rec’d a message that he felt safe last night. I assume that a doc targeted him. > > and gah, I wish I knew where he was. So, do you \*know \*that \*\*gnarlycharlie \*\*was targeted by a non-investigative role? Or did someone \*tell \*you that this was the case? Or are you just \*assuming \*this was the case because he received a message sating he felt safe last Night? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2006 "2011-08-23T02:14:26Z")
I actually assume \*\*4 \*\*cops are giving bad results, not one. But I AT LEAST assume I’m getting a couple bad results. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2007 "2011-08-23T02:15:21Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Let me just repeat that Gad told me that gnarly is a villager. I am 99.9% positive that gnarly is town. Bleh, well we can’t see the pms you received (and don’t post them here or you’ll face punishment). So the mod essentially told you “Gnarly has targeted you, he is a mason, so are you, and the two of you have found eachother” ? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2008 "2011-08-23T02:17:43Z")
[ul] [li] **DanceCat** [/li][li] **Blaster** [/li][li] **Silver Jan** [/li][li] **TexCat** [/li][li] **Gnarlycharlie** [/li][/ul] Everyone please put these 5 names in order of scummiest to least scummy, or I’ll keep repeating this post as often as I feel I’m being ignored. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2009 "2011-08-23T02:18:35Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > By your own post, though, you say gnarly is most likely Town. This implies that there is something out there either receiving or giving out wrong reads (if true). Everyone being claimed to be a villager is more likely to be a villager than not. Of the group which have been claimed as villagers, gnarly is the least likely to be a villager because he was also claimed to be a wolf. The mason mechanic alone may require that gnarly is described as a villager to other masons. Maybe a true seer also peeked gnarly and his results were redirected to the person who received it. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2010 "2011-08-23T02:19:57Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I see 5 “cop” like results. > > I see 4 of them are innocent and one is guilty. > > I do not assume all 5 cops are true cops, because that’s horse crap. > > I therefore assume one of the cops is giving bad results. > > Therefore, gnarlycharlie is the worst lynch of the 5. Then I have others backing up his story. > > I’ll assume if I must, and I must, it’s freaking mafia. 5 people are claimed to be villagers, and the only one you don’t want to lynch is the one who was also claimed to be a wolf. That is bad. Almost as bad as claiming yourself a village vig for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2011 "2011-08-23T02:20:28Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > Everyone being claimed to be a villager is more likely to be a villager than not. Of the group which have been claimed as villagers, gnarly is the least likely to be a villager because he was also claimed to be a wolf. > > The mason mechanic alone may require that gnarly is described as a villager to other masons. Maybe a true seer also peeked gnarly and his results were redirected to the person who received it. That would mean you have\*\* 4 other seers who are either true or naive. \*\* That’s also horse crap. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2012 "2011-08-23T02:21:30Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > 5 people are claimed to be villagers, and the only one you don’t want to lynch is the one who was also claimed to be a wolf. That is bad. Almost as bad as claiming yourself a village vig for no reason. 😕 Imma use my vigilante powers on you tonight with my mind. Your logic is terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2013 "2011-08-23T02:27:04Z")
Oh, speaking of which, I am OBVIOUSLY NOT THE VIGILANTE. Jesus H. tap-dancing effing Moonbat, people. The poisoner is on a delay, and I claimed I targeted Mahaloth last night, not night zero, and the other vigilante is dead. I was gonna shut up about this but like 5 different people wouldn’t leave it alone. Now there’s basically no way that I get targeted instead of someone more important. Thanks a lot. Hopefully me being a pain in the ass will do the trick instead. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2014 "2011-08-23T02:33:06Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > The poisoner is on a delay You don’t know that for a fact. This isn’t a smudge, because I don’t think this makes sense as a PIS from either side, but I just wanted to let you know that this isn’t necessarily a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2015 "2011-08-23T02:34:05Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > Everyone being claimed to be a villager is more likely to be a villager than not. Well, then, we disagree. I think it’d be dangerous to assume that, myself. You’re essentially saying there’s five cop-like roles out there, and that four four of them gives the results to random players, and **that all four of them get truthful reads?** That seems a little too good to be true, to put it mildly. And again, by your logic (since you think **gnarly** is Town), that points to the fact that there IS a role out there that gives out false info. Where there’s one, there could be more. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2016 "2011-08-23T02:36:00Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > You don’t know that for a fact. This isn’t a smudge, because I don’t think this makes sense as a PIS from either side, but I just wanted to let you know that this isn’t necessarily a fact. Okay true, but what’s the difference between a vigilante and a poisoner? So far as I know, only the delay part is relevant. It’s not a fact, but it’s a wager-worthy assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2017 "2011-08-23T02:37:22Z")
Also, lilflower didn’t die last night, or the night I targeted her, so either I’m not a poisoner or I was blocked. The odds favor not poisoner. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2018 "2011-08-23T02:40:36Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I’d like to see a few more eyes on Inner Stickler, if anyone is looking for a possible lynch candidate. I started making a case before the claiming blew up (I hope I can retrieve it from the work computer tomorrow) > [@TexCat](#): > > At some point Gnarly is going to show up and confirm that we are masons. So either we are both scum or neither scum, Pizza. > > a and b) Charlie shared his PM info with me. He received a PM last night that indicated someone had targeted him. > > I did not target Charlie last night. He targeted you and found his fellow mason and ALSO got a PM that he was targeted? One role per player here. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m not going into the whole Sane/Insane/Naive/Etc. Cop thing right at the moment, but the claim that stands out as ‘odd’ is actually **Weedy’s**. > > **Idle Thoughts** (1120): “DanceCat is a Villager, apparently” > \*\*Scuba\_Ben \*\*(1569): “Silver Jan is a Villager.” > **Silver Jan** (1716): “Gnarlycharlie is a WOLF!” > \*\*Weedy \*\*(1812): “I got a message in the night that Texcat was a mason, and town.” > \*\*Giraffe \*\*(1820): “I got a message during the night that Blaster Master is a Villager.” > > \*\*Weedy \*\*received Alignment _and Role_, while the others received Alignment only. > > \*\*TexCat’s \*\*claim is altogether different from the rest, as he claims to have been ‘found’ by **Weedy** , and to have received Mod-confirmation that he and \*\*Weedy \*\*are both Town. Where did this happen \*\* TexCat \*\* claims to have been found by \*\* gnarlycharlie \*\* > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Very fair point, and I’d be willing to lynch Weedy as well. That does sound odd. And you don’t question it? > [@crackedquads](#): > > [spoiler]YES! In the other game there was EIGHT masons, with one WOLF mason being in the mix. > > If I recall correctly, there was a MESSENGER in the other game which could send messages through the mod to other players. This could explain the “peeks” where “I heard a whisper that so and so is a villager/wolf” come from. [/spoiler] > > Texcat hardclaims him and gnarlycharlie are village masons who found one another. This claim was not in response to vote pressure being applied to either of them. \*\* you mean right after \*\* gnarlycharlie \*\* was identified as a Wolf? > [@](#): > > [spoiler] > At the very least: > > Texcat IS a villager, and a mason > > Texcat believes gnarly is a villager, and knows he is a mason > > Gnarly IS a mason, is likely a villager, but could be a wolf mason. > WRT your underlined portion: There are varying types of cops/seers, and one popular one where multiple cops exist is True Seers. True seers get correct, full information about their target. The full seer’s target was redirected to weedy. > > There is a very obvious reason why none of the claimed role/alignment reveals were given to players about whom they targeted. I’m not going to explain it because I think it’s anti-town to do so. > > Again, there’s an obvious, great reason why none of the peeks are about the players they targeted. Some of the results gathered (not all), can be explained by something not being explored itt. It should stay that way. > > There is very likely to be various forms of cops, I agree. We have to be cognizant of that but simply lynching people within the claim for information isn’t exactly beneficial to the village. I’m trying to decide what direction we want to take with our lynch tomorrow, but note that lynching inside these claims isn’t a must, in fact I would be more comfortable lynching outside of it. > > Additionally, the wolves will help resolve these claims. They can’t let 5 people who are getting results from other players and clearing one another all remain alive. We’ll know more by Wednesday. > > Oracles didn’t work that way in the other game. When an oracle died, the results of his/her last target were exposed in the thread. For example, let’s say: > > I’m an oracle, last night, I targeted player X > > Today I end up getting lynched > > When I die and the mod reveals my power, he also reveals the role PM of the player I targeted last night. It doesn’t matter whether or not my target is still alive in the game. So player X’s true role PM would have been posted in game. > > That’s at least how it worked in the last game. Could very well be different here, and oracles may not even exist. [/spoiler] > > NO. Texcat is the clearest villager of all the claims, because: > > He claimed without reason, without pressure, and his mason buddy also was not in danger. NO- see above > [@](#): > > Another player also claimed Texcat to be a villager. > > Texcat’s mason (gnarly) will almost certainly also claim Texcat is a villager. > > This is also unfortunately not true. Both of you could be (and I believe that you are) masons, but being masons does not make you villagers. > > You’re almost certainly a villager because someone else has claimed you as one, but gnarly could be a wolf mason. Wolf mason’s existed in the other game, do not discount their presence in this one. > > If we lynch inside of these claims. We lynch **gnarly**. Gnarly can very well be both a mason and a wolf. This role existed in the last game. > > Texcat is clearest > > Gnarly is the least clear > > Everyone else is in between. Posting as I catch up ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2019 "2011-08-23T02:40:40Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > Bleh, well we can’t see the pms you received (and don’t post them here or you’ll face punishment). > > So the mod essentially told you “Gnarly has targeted you, he is a mason, so are you, and the two of you have found eachother” > > ? YES. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2020 "2011-08-23T02:42:28Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Where there’s one, there could be more. In order to balance out 5 true cops, you’d need to have a mafia the size of an army. You just know, for game balance purposes, some of the cops are going to be incorrect. With 5 cops, what’s the most common setup? One of each. Sane/True, Insane/Backward, Paranoid/Guilty, Naive/Innocent, Mafia/Lies Only 1 of those gives you true results, and only 2 of them give you useful results. Balance is important, especially since we have doctors and trackers and vigilantes and stuff. Either the mafia takes up half the town or we have a lot of falsehood cops. That’s the correct bet. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2021 "2011-08-23T02:42:49Z")
Wow. I thought I was caught up - now there’s been like 200 posts in the last 5 hours. Wow. I gotta sort this - but for now. Unvote gnarlycharlie [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=100) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=102)