# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 102
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2022 "2011-08-23T02:44:28Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Where did this happen \*\* TexCat \*\* claims to have been found by \*\* gnarlycharlie \*\* > > And you don’t question it? I do, but no one was listening to me. By default I have to go for secondary and tertiary suspects now. Besides I am actually sort of willing to give benefit of the doubt based on all the claims coming in which supposedly clear them. But yeah, I’d lynch TexCat just to clear a whole bunch of people or nail a scum, there’s just zero support for it. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2023 "2011-08-23T02:45:35Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > That would mean you have\*\* 4 other seers who are either true or naive. > \*\* > That’s also horse crap. Just for comparison, in the previous game there were 2 village oracles and 4 village seers. Of those village seers, there were: 1 true seer 2 mystic seers 1 mason seer (2 players were masons in their own category, and once they found eachother, one became a seer and the other became an angel) There was also one true seer wolf, and one mystic seer wolf. So in the previous game there were 6 seers, with all of them peeking correct results. Yes this is a mish mash and any roles can be expected here, but you can’t completely discount the idea that all the peeks are true in a game where the previous iteration only had true seers. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2024 "2011-08-23T02:46:18Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Charlie rec’d a message that he felt safe last night. I assume that a doc targeted him. > > and gah, I wish I knew where he was. How many bloody messaged did \*\* gnarlycharlie \*\* get last night? He found a fellow by targeting you, He knew he was investigated, AND he felt “safe” this is really getting odd ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2025 "2011-08-23T02:47:14Z")
For those of you who are interested: **[Dethy - MafiaWiki](http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Dethy)** The standard 5 cop setup. Probably included in this game, which explains a whole hell of a lot. Difference being they don’t get their own results, they whisper them to someone, probably randomly. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2026 "2011-08-23T02:47:33Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > He targeted you and found his fellow mason and ALSO got a PM that he was targeted? Yes. I don’t see how targeting and being targeted are exclusive. Also, Gnarly is awake and will be here shortly. Lot of catching up to do. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2027 "2011-08-23T02:48:09Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > In order to balance out 5 true cops, you’d need to have a mafia the size of an army. > > You just know, for game balance purposes, some of the cops are going to be incorrect. > > With 5 cops, what’s the most common setup? One of each. > > Sane/True, Insane/Backward, Paranoid/Guilty, Naive/Innocent, Mafia/Lies > > Only 1 of those gives you true results, and only 2 of them give you useful results. > > Balance is important, especially since we have doctors and trackers and vigilantes and stuff. Either the mafia takes up half the town or we have a lot of falsehood cops. > > That’s the correct bet. There can be 5 true cops, but not all cops actually be villagers. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2028 "2011-08-23T02:48:53Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > How many bloody messaged did \*\* gnarlycharlie \*\* get last night? > He found a fellow by targeting you, He knew he was investigated, AND he felt “safe” > > this is really getting odd No, he did not know he was investigated. Not sure where you got that. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2029 "2011-08-23T02:49:09Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > There was also one true seer wolf, and one mystic seer wolf. > So in the previous game there were 6 seers, with all of them peeking correct results. But by your own admission, 2 of them were scum. Which means the true seer wolf could be lying. And the other gave cover to a scumbag, and they could direct it at folks they were going to murder soon, thus rendering it fairly useless to the town. Always assume there’s lies when multiple detective results appear per night. It’s the only way to balance it. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2030 "2011-08-23T02:50:34Z")
Texcat is claiming charlie is probably day angeled today. So for those of us that actually think he could be a wolf we should probably change our votes. We could test the angel theory by making him the lead wagon, and making another likely wolf the second wagon, but I don’t feel like we have that much coordination in the village right now so that probably will fail. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2031 "2011-08-23T02:52:33Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > But by your own admission, 2 of them were scum. Which means the true seer wolf could be lying. And the other gave cover to a scumbag, and they could direct it at folks they were going to murder soon, thus rendering it fairly useless to the town. > > Always assume there’s lies when multiple detective results appear per night. It’s the only way to balance it. I’m not telling you all these claims are correct, I’m telling you that you shouldn’t be advocating to lynch texcat for being the most peeked villager while also trying to save gnarlie for being peeked both villager and wolf. That’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2032 "2011-08-23T02:53:03Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > There can be 5 true cops, but not all cops actually be villagers. Well jeez, why don’t we just scan 5 people at a time until the game is solved? [ul] [li]Oracle who targeted Dancecat, go alphabetical from the player list starting at one, and skip down every 5 names every night.[/li][li]Oracle who targeted Blaster, same deal, just start at the second name on the list,[/li][li]Oracle who targeted Silver Jan, same deal, just start at the third name,[/li][li]TexCat fourth name,[/li][li]Gnarly fifth name,[/li][/ul] And we’ll solve this game without having to think too much. And that’s just with the seers. Nevermind watchers, trackers, blockers, vigilantes, doctors… Game is not balanced with 5 true cops. That’s my point. If you want to play that bet, I just gave you a nearly foolproof way of killing all the scums in record time. That’s horse dooky, IMO. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2033 "2011-08-23T02:54:33Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > Texcat is claiming charlie is probably day angeled today. So for those of us that actually think he could be a wolf we should probably change our votes. We could test the angel theory by making him the lead wagon, and making another likely wolf the second wagon, but I don’t feel like we have that much coordination in the village right now so that probably will fail. huh? I don’t remember claiming that he was day-angeled. I have no reason to believe that he is. Where did you get that? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2034 "2011-08-23T02:55:44Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > That’s ridiculous. I feel 5 true cops are more ridiculous, especially by Gad’s own admission this game has a different setup from the previous one. I sincerely doubt we have 5 accurate seers. And you know what? We can find out in a very short time which bet is correct. So it’s not even a critical issue. I’d go with the safe bet, which is the Dethy setup, until proven otherwise. Skeptical position is Dethy. Trusting position is all true seers. I’m a skeptical kinda guy. I don’t believe we’ve been handed a gift like 5 true seers. That’s what’s dubious to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2035 "2011-08-23T02:56:21Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > If we lynch inside of these claims. We lynch **gnarly**. Gnarly can very well be both a mason and a wolf. This role existed in the last game. I may be the first to say this, but if we have something so abysmally stupid as a “mason wolf” in this game, I quit. That’s up there with death miller and secret jester. Fuck THAT noise. ---
**Author:** ![pwnsall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@pwnsall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pwnsall)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2036 "2011-08-23T02:57:05Z")
hello new thread/forum i’ll try to catch up a bit at some point ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2037 "2011-08-23T02:58:11Z")
I’ll admit I’ve only skimmed so far, but I have a few comments. It seems to me that you are assuming a few things: 1. That there really are 5 Seers. 2. That they are all Town 3. That the Seers who seem to relay their results to others are Town Seers and not Scum Messengers. 4. That the messages will be delivered to Town players. 5. That there are no powers like a Nexus (who targets someone and forces their power to be redirected to that player). 6. That Scum are lacking in roleblockers and players with an extra kill. 7. Lots more things that I’m too tired to think of. I haven’t played with you much, but sometimes it seems to me that you grab on to an idea and ride it until it drops dead. I like a lot of your ideas, but sometimes, I think patience and an open mind might be beneficial. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Well jeez, why don’t we just scan 5 people at a time until the game is solved? > > [ul] > [li]Oracle who targeted Dancecat, go alphabetical from the player list starting at one, and skip down every 5 names every night.[/li][li]Oracle who targeted Blaster, same deal, just start at the second name on the list,[/li][li]Oracle who targeted Silver Jan, same deal, just start at the third name,[/li][li]TexCat fourth name,[/li][li]Gnarly fifth name,[/li][/ul] > And we’ll solve this game without having to think too much. And that’s just with the seers. Nevermind watchers, trackers, blockers, vigilantes, doctors… > > Game is not balanced with 5 true cops. That’s my point. If you want to play that bet, I just gave you a nearly foolproof way of killing all the scums in record time. > > That’s horse dooky, IMO. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2038 "2011-08-23T02:59:26Z")
okay, posting first before catching up. i woke up to **Texcat** ’s message to me. so: 1. i targeted **Texcat** last Night. i was suspicious of her so i was hoping for an investigative result. toDay we both got a message saying we were masons (monks, i believe, is the POG term). 2. i also received a message that i felt safe last night. that i presumed was from a doc/angel who was suspicious of me. more as i catch up. 500 posts apparently. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2039 "2011-08-23T02:59:47Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > No, he did not know he was investigated. Not sure where you got that. By your own statements. Even before you replied to me above and I see you are denying that “feeling safe” is being ‘protected’ ? This feels like a grand house of cards. And there is a strong wind blowing. I’m forced off the computer at this time. I shall return as I can. This is a CF if ever I saw one and I wager there are others that can add even more cornfusion to the mess ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2040 "2011-08-23T03:00:11Z")
Let me clarify my previous, because I feel strongly about it. Mafia is a game about investigation and reading people. Adding retarded roles that give incorrect death reveals (death miller) or punish players for playing like they should play (jester (punishes voting for the scummy); mason wolf (punishes trusting the masons as a confirmable pool); godfather, recruiter, or false cop (punishes trusting investigation results)) without letting the players know in advance those elements are in the game, or at least that it’s a gastard game, is complete bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2041 "2011-08-23T03:01:12Z")
If I wanted to spend more time trying to beat the game structure than other players, I’d play Mao. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=101) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=103)