# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 113
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2242 "2011-08-23T15:07:29Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Responding to BM responding to Drain Bead, just in case it got missed. > > I have been told to submit two targets Tonight. I have inferred that I got a power boost. I won’t know until Tomorrow. > > I think the best way to assess my inference is for whoever targeted me, target someone they consider reliable. Let’s see if anybody gets extra targets for the following Night. > > Given everything that’s going on with investigations, I think the only thing we can conclude is that there are many crazy roles in this game. > > AOP @ **Normal Phase**. If I’ve followed this correctly, gnarly targeted TexCat. Please don’t consider my memory reliable. > > AOP2 @ **peeker** : I’m learning fast that in this game messages are currently of unknown reliability. > > It would be nice to lynch someone who would give us the most information about the game setup. But failing that we have to return to analysis of who seems Scummiest given the game so far. > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > I’m up to 1879. A question keeps sticking in my head. > > - Jan submitted a target (undisclosed) and a backup target (gnarlycharlie). > - She got no result on her target. > - She got a message of Wolf on her backup target. > > I tentatively conclude that Jan got a random message the same way several other people did (including me). > > Further, if we have any normal cops that get the results of their own investigations, > > - They would get results, not messages. > - They should NOT claim Today unless absolutely necessary. > > And another question I just thought of. **TexCat** and **gnarlycharlie** , you said you got your full role PMs. I want to double check something – did the full PMs say your roles were both Mason? Was the Night action that you’d find a Mason and get your roles if you did? Or something else? yes, our full PMS said we were masons. before the full PMs, i received a congratulatory message for finding my fellow mason. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2243 "2011-08-23T15:08:03Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > **Recommend lynching one of the folks we were going to lynch this round before all the claims hit us.** > > Those were suspects for standard mafia-suspicion-related reasons. It’s going to give you a better shot at figuring out who is full of crap regardless of if you hit scum or townie with those lynches. > > If you lynch away everyone involved in this cop/whisper/mason debacle, I can almost guarantee you, everyone you lynch will be townie. > > I repeat the advice I give every game: Do not rely on power roles to save the game for you. > > You know how easy this game would be if there were ZERO results to work with? As in, everyone was vanilla? We’d use our natural scum-finding instincts to find the scum. And who flips scum helps us figure out who else is scum. > > The power roles are actually a hindrance to our discussion, and our reliance on our better scum-finding method, which is by behavior. > > Please, power roles are icing on the cake. They SUCK without a cake to put it on. The cake is behavioral analysis. The CAKE is not a lie. > > Focus on the cake. The icing comes later. > > **Does anyone support the go-back-to-before-the-claims plan? I do.** The huge flaw in this thinking is that it throws the baby out with the bathwater. The claims are part of the analysis you can’t just ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2244 "2011-08-23T15:15:07Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > By the way BlaM can you reconcile the thinking in [THIS POST](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14169869) with [THIS POST](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14172488). > > Please explain, because I certainly can’t. I’m not sure what you want me to explain. I don’t really have the context for the first one, but IIRC, Jan had revealed her secret bag and I still felt like it was in our best interest to make sense of her message. I believe this was also before **Weedy** gave her message about **TexCat** or **Giraffe** gave the message about me. So, if I remember my thought process then, I still thought that the **Krayz** wagon was to protect one of **TexCat** or **Silver Jan** and we had a conflicting claim between the two that meant that we probably had 2 wolves vs 2 wolves. **Gnarly** hadn’t commented yet either to confirm **TexCat** ’s claim. The second post is after realizing that we had a lot more claims going out, whereas in the first one, I believe we only had 3, and I wouldn’t have been surprised if some of those were lies. With 5 reads out there now, it becomes a lot more likely that there’s something else going on. So, I can only assume you’re seeing some conflict because you’re taking my opinions of the current information out of the context of what information was actually revealed. And, quite frankly, I was struggling last Night trying to keep up and make sense of what was going on and, unfortunately, I had other obligations that I couldn’t stay on all Night and wait for it all to get resolved. Hell, I’m still catching up, so I’m still not sure that my current idea of what the claims are is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2245 "2011-08-23T15:15:07Z")
what is fascinating to me is that a whole bunch of scummers hook on my ass D1. easy lynch, not too antogonistic, post too little kind of french. \*\* giraffe\*\* is scum, that’s kind of a given at this point. i was worried about **ben** but shoot i just think he is clueles. and after toDay i think **jan** is scum as well. **pizza** is not town but we can leave that alone for a moment. so you have to start digging deep for the rest of the fartwads. don’t really have a heck of a lot there for the moment but will add: hey hey, **drain** whadup? hey, **ed** whadup? hey. **buff** heard from **mykbot**? ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2246 "2011-08-23T15:16:18Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > After some more thinking, and reading **lilflower** in #1883, I have to agree that lynching a claimed mason with a corroborating mason claim is Not Good Play. > > **unvote gnarlycharlie** > > AOP. Defensive, self-preservation vote, as I will be AFK for the last hour of the Day: **vote Silver Jan** and hope that I got a false message. I’m blaming **lilflower** for forcing me to cast a self-preservation vote. WTH? do you mean you’re not taking responsibility for your vote? even if **Jan** is my competing wagon, i haven’t voted for her because it’s unlikely for scum to do what she has. **Vote Scuba Ben** ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2247 "2011-08-23T15:16:28Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > We could always just lynch giraffe and be done with one scum. Just a fucking thought. Hey peeker, you never answered my question a few pages back: is this fixation of yours on me due to getting a message about me being scum? Please answer yes or no. In the meantime, while I await your answer: given that I don’t think **Silver Jan** is likely scum and you’re the person **Mahaloth** (wolf) voted to help on D1 when you were the lynch leader, I think I’ll park my vote back on you. **unvote Silver Jan** **vote peeker** I encourage others to read the posts right before this whole **Silver Jan** / **gnarliecharley** thing broke: the timeline of Day 1 voting is pretty interesting if one assumes that a wolf may have been one of the bandwagon leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2248 "2011-08-23T15:20:52Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > The huge flaw in this thinking is that it throws the baby out with the bathwater. The claims are part of the analysis you can’t just ignore them. No it’s not. It’s not like Tomorrow morning we’ll forget who claimed what Today. We’ll still have all of that information, plus we’ll have new claims, and we’ll have 1-4 new alignments to roll into it. The only way I see that we really gain any information from these claims is IF we lynch a claimed mason and they turn up scum. Unless I’m still missing something… God, I think I’m confusing myself even more swapping back and forth reading new stuff and still catching up. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2249 "2011-08-23T15:21:48Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > At least if you’re going to vote for me for my vote, at least represent it correctly. My case against **Ben** is a lot more than that: > > 1. It’s likely the **Krayz** ’s wagon was built to save scum, he was on that wagon third. > 2. He unvoted once the wagon was in the lead. > 3. He subsequently said that he didn’t find **Krayz** (or **peeker** ) to be scummy. > 4. Other votes started coming onto the top vote getters and he revoted for **Krayz**. First off, my Day 1 play always comes across bad. So my assessments of Scummy or not-Scummy are not significant. I think my best function on D1 is to get people to talk, and if possible avoid talking myself onto the D2 scaffold. I goofed in my own thinking late Yesterday. I wanted to prevent Scum from swooping in at the last minute and changing the lynch, so I pushed the vote leader farther to the front. And that was Krayz. But I realized since then that D1 is a very bad time to telegraph a last-minute save that badly. So I would have been better off leaving my vote where it was. And part of BlaM’s case against me is the “third vote on the bandwagon is Scummy” issue. Well, “voting because third-vote-on-the-bandwagon-is-scummy is scummy.” And voting because VB3VotBiSiS is scummy. And voting because VBVB3VotBiSiSiS is scummy. Etc. So your case against me starts with an incredibly weak proposition. Why don’t you pursue **Weedy** for being the third voter Today on Jan, **Idle Thoughts** for being the third on gnarly, or **Suburban Plankton** for being the third on me? I have two targets tonight, and unless gnarlycharlie has claimed a feeling of protection I strongly doubt I have a killing power. I’ll be glad to target you, BlaM, if you want. AOP @ gnarlycharlie: You’re calling me out for a self-preservation vote? WTF? I read your vote on me as a different kind of OMGUS. What, precisely, is wrong with a self preservation vote? And I blame lilflower because if e hadn’t voted me, I wouldn’t have felt the need for a self preservation vote. But then BlaM came along and revoted me. E at least has laid out a case against me, and put eir vote back on me partly to make sure I replied. You haven’t done anything close to that. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2250 "2011-08-23T15:21:55Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’m not sure what you want me to explain. I don’t really have the context for the first one, but IIRC, Jan had revealed her secret bag and I still felt like it was in our best interest to make sense of her message. I believe this was also before **Weedy** gave her message about **TexCat** or **Giraffe** gave the message about me. So, if I remember my thought process then, I still thought that the **Krayz** wagon was to protect one of **TexCat** or **Silver Jan** and we had a conflicting claim between the two that meant that we probably had 2 wolves vs 2 wolves. **Gnarly** hadn’t commented yet either to confirm **TexCat** ’s claim. > The second post is after realizing that we had a lot more claims going out, whereas in the first one, I believe we only had 3, and I wouldn’t have been surprised if some of those were lies. With 5 reads out there now, it becomes a lot more likely that there’s something else going on. > So, I can only assume you’re seeing some conflict because you’re taking my opinions of the current information out of the context of what information was actually revealed. And, quite frankly, I was struggling last Night trying to keep up and make sense of what was going on and, unfortunately, I had other obligations that I couldn’t stay on all Night and wait for it all to get resolved. Hell, I’m still catching up, so I’m still not sure that my current idea of what the claims are is accurate. Grr, I find this game frustrating. I hate being behind, and now I am not trusting myself. I am going to hang onto my vote but I am going to go back and look at Sticks some more and see if I like him better. It doesn’t help that I think Septimus’s vote for you and the surrounding posting was also fairly scummy. It hurts my head that you advocated lynching a mason even though they had claimed, then advocated against lynching a mason because they had claimed. But I think I am getting caught up in gottcha. EFF it. I am surprisingly easy to dissuade this morning, but I think I like Tex’s case against Inner Stickler better than my case against you at this point. **Unvote** \*\* Vote Inner Stickler\*\* ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2251 "2011-08-23T15:22:42Z")
and **burby** if you are scum i am so fucked. probably just show up in front of your house and start honkin the horn at 4a until you call the cops. and sorry poggers i just don’t know what buttons need to be pushed. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2252 "2011-08-23T15:23:11Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > No it’s not. It’s not like Tomorrow morning we’ll forget who claimed what Today. We’ll still have all of that information, plus we’ll have new claims, and we’ll have 1-4 new alignments to roll into it. The only way I see that we really gain any information from these claims is IF we lynch a claimed mason and they turn up scum. Unless I’m still missing something… God, I think I’m confusing myself even more swapping back and forth reading new stuff and still catching up. It seems, and I could be reading this wrong, but it seems that he is potentially advocating lynching some of the claimants because they had suspicion prior to the claims. I am ok with the idea if we take them out of the pool of lynch possibilities for the Day. Hell that’s what I have been advocating. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2253 "2011-08-23T15:24:08Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > [473](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14151915&postcount=473) Inner’s vote on me yesterday. No comment, no opinion, just a vote. He later said he didn’t like me voting for a bad idea. Quite a few people voted for NAF’s bad idea, and yet, Inner didn’t see fit to vote for them, or comment on them. Did he ever even voice an opinion on them? I don’t think so. He has voiced almost no opinions on anything this game. And now he is voting GnarlyCharlie who I know is town and most of you think is likely to be town. We had a whole discussion about Voting for Bad Ideas Yesterday and after everyone got on the same page, you came along and dropped your crap vote as if none of the discussion ever happened. So I voted for you. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings but lynching me’s not gonna answer any of the questions from today and that’s the more interesting mess. Frankly, if you’re\* not voting for one of the people invovled, and I would almost limit that to Jan, Gnarly, and Texcat, maybe Weedy, I can’t help but think you don’t want to leave a real record. \*general you ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2254 "2011-08-23T15:24:28Z")
I really don’t like lynching any of the people who claimed they got messages. I’d prefer to to wait til the next day and see if the same people claim to get messages or a different set of people With that in mind **Unvote Scuba\_ben** ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2255 "2011-08-23T15:25:09Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > We had a whole discussion about Voting for Bad Ideas Yesterday and after everyone got on the same page, you came along and dropped your crap vote as if none of the discussion ever happened. So I voted for you. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings but lynching me’s not gonna answer any of the questions from today and that’s the more interesting mess. Frankly, if you’re\* not voting for one of the people invovled, and I would almost limit that to Jan, Gnarly, and Texcat, maybe Weedy, I can’t help but think you don’t want to leave a real record. > > \*general you Huh. Really? Expand on that idea please? Why again do you want to push for lynches of people that are more likely than not to be town? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2256 "2011-08-23T15:25:10Z")
ABWOP as BlaM’s 2247 didn’t show when I previewed the second time. If I survive the Day, I might have more messages or _something_ from my two targets Tonight. That might help our information overload. Unlike you, I’m not confused “even more,” I started there. 🙂 AOP @ gnarly. Question for you: Did you get a “feeling of protection” or a similar question last Night? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2257 "2011-08-23T15:25:47Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > By my count, two people have claimed feelings of protection last Night: > > - NAF > - septimus > > Has anybody else, **gnarlycharlie** in particular, made such a claim? TexCat reports in #1976 that gnarly reported such a feeling to him. (It took me several minutes to track that down. :smack: … Texcat posted a dozen times or so between the initial Mason claim and this.) I’m not 100% sure my PM referred to Protection. Would it be useful to compare these “protection” PM’s? **@ Gad – what are precise rules for paraphrasing PMs. Can I give 1 or 2 words? Synonyms for such word(s)?** ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2258 "2011-08-23T15:26:11Z")
I’m not voting: 1. Anybody who claims to have recieved another player’s alignment 2. Anybody whose alignment has (supposedly) been received by another player 3. Anybody who has claimed mason 4. Anybody who has claimed any other power role 5. Anybody who is extremely unlikely to get lynched, given that the lynch occurs in ~3.5 hours I am more likely to vote players who I know made bad votes yesterDay (did I do it right?), and players who have been sitting back and coasting while everyone else tries to sort out the investigation results/claims. Now I just have to find out who those people are. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2259 "2011-08-23T15:27:58Z")
Looking at the last vote count, I have a very straightforward decision to **vote blaster** unless the wagons change. now to look at the final vote count from yesterDay (see? I did it again!) ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2260 "2011-08-23T15:29:15Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > After some more thinking, and reading **lilflower** in #1883, I have to agree that lynching a claimed mason with a corroborating mason claim is Not Good Play. > > **unvote gnarlycharlie** > > AOP. Defensive, self-preservation vote, as I will be AFK for the last hour of the Day: **vote Silver Jan** and hope that I got a false message. I’m blaming **lilflower** for forcing me to cast a self-preservation vote. What? You were just talking about how town should lynch you and now you are all about self-preservation? And you are voting for the one person that you allegedly got a message about? And now you are leaving us? Wow. Oh wait, and you are blaming me for all of this. For the record, I really hate self-preservation votes. I’m happy with my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/2261 "2011-08-23T15:29:51Z")
@ septimus #2256: That’s on page 40, and I’m on page 39. So I’ll get to it soon. @ Dancecat #2257: I’m on both your lists – I claim to have received a message of someone’s alignment, and I made bad votes Yesterday. This doesn’t help me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=112) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=114)